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Benefits - Only for lazy, stupid people....
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Wow, aren't there a lot of little Crypto-Tories in the making on this thread. Suprises me, for a bunch of students.
Working is not necessarily better for "self esteem" for the reasons I highlighted earlier. Doing some demeaning boring job with people you don't like or respect for 8 hours a day does NOT bring self esteem. It only brings the feeling of "What the hell am I doing with my life". And it can severely affect physical or mental health, depending on the job.
And as for contributing to society - what exactly are they contributing towards? A society that shuts down trade, buys nuclear weapons, goes into unnecessary wars. Not a lot of pride in that is there?
The Daily Mail, as always, has a lot to answer for.
Let's face it - people work because they need the money. It has nothing to do with pride or contributing towards society. Those days are long gone.
Working is not necessarily better for "self esteem" for the reasons I highlighted earlier. Doing some demeaning boring job with people you don't like or respect for 8 hours a day does NOT bring self esteem. It only brings the feeling of "What the hell am I doing with my life". And it can severely affect physical or mental health, depending on the job.
And as for contributing to society - what exactly are they contributing towards? A society that shuts down trade, buys nuclear weapons, goes into unnecessary wars. Not a lot of pride in that is there?
The Daily Mail, as always, has a lot to answer for.
Let's face it - people work because they need the money. It has nothing to do with pride or contributing towards society. Those days are long gone.
perhaps she should have become financially stable before having kids....been responsible and not brought children into the world and make other people pay for them.
Original post by TheCurlyHairedDude
My mum hates being on benefits, she loaves herself and the situation she's in. She wishes she could work, but it doesn't make no sense at all.....
Is that a euphemism? Sounds painful.
Original post by soffiapink
perhaps she should have become financially stable before having kids.
And how do you know she wasn't?
Circumstances change all the time. Look at all the people who lost their jobs in the last few years cos of the economy and ****. You can easily be "financially stable" when you have kids, but end up relying on benefits because of the **** economy and the like.
I don't think many people support benefits being removed from people who cannot work because of physical or mental issues or having to care for others.
However, as portrayed by the media, there are a group of people seemingly taking advantage of the benefits system and taking money which would be better spent elsewhere.
A while back I heard the government was proposing a scheme to ensure that it was always worth it to have a job than be on benefits... something about the government topping up salaries to make sure.. sounded like a pretty good idea to me.
Personally I think fair enough if you don't want to work, but it's out of order if you expect the state to pay for you.
Also, these days there are so many free courses which teach computing, interview skills, basic maths etc... I know all this is available in my local area and there's so much information which is available free on the internet (which can be accessed for free at the libraries even if you don't have a computer) ... I don't really understand when people say they can't find a job because they can't use a computer or left school at 15 etc... there's so much help out there
However, as portrayed by the media, there are a group of people seemingly taking advantage of the benefits system and taking money which would be better spent elsewhere.
A while back I heard the government was proposing a scheme to ensure that it was always worth it to have a job than be on benefits... something about the government topping up salaries to make sure.. sounded like a pretty good idea to me.
Personally I think fair enough if you don't want to work, but it's out of order if you expect the state to pay for you.
Also, these days there are so many free courses which teach computing, interview skills, basic maths etc... I know all this is available in my local area and there's so much information which is available free on the internet (which can be accessed for free at the libraries even if you don't have a computer) ... I don't really understand when people say they can't find a job because they can't use a computer or left school at 15 etc... there's so much help out there
Original post by machiavelli123
Is that a euphemism? Sounds painful.
French bread
Original post by Pin
Personally I think fair enough if you don't want to work, but it's out of order if you expect the state to pay for you.
Personally I think fair enough if you don't want to work, but it's out of order if you expect the state to pay for you.
Yeah but the state doesn't exactly "pay for you" does it. Ok you get money but assuming you're not fiddling the system, you get such a pittance from the dole (you try living on it) that it makes life very miserable and boring. If someone is unable to or doesn't want to work then they have to pay for it by living on a shoestring.
I think we ought to give benefits, but I think we ought to put more effort into catching the real cheats, not spending all our time trying to dispute people's doctors about the fact that they are really sick, and trying to destroy people by placing them in crappy underpaid jobs.
There are people out there claiming multiple dole cheques under false identities - they are the people we really ought to be after.
And if we caught the cheats, that in itself would lower the statistics of people being on the dole.
![Avatar for [NyuNyu]](https://static.thestudentroom.co.uk/forum/customavatars/avatar365998_2.gif){kind=avatar}
Original post by daisydaffodil
Depends on said 13 year old - they might be disabled or especially vulnerable for some reason. All children are individual, just because you could cope doesn't mean every child can. I know for a fact that I couldn't, and neither could my sister.
Yes, well obviously I wasn't addressing those who aren't capable due to medical reasons. But those who have no mental/physical disabilities whom are able to differentiate which foods are edible and which aren't should be able to keep themselves alive with a sandwich for 2 or 3 hours while waiting for parents to come home and make supper.
Although children shouldn't be FORCED to experience hardship i.e. not having parents home when they come home from school, if this is required to allow their parents to work then I think it is perfectly fair. But you are right, perhaps not all could cope with being left on their own but I think this is down to the parents and their responsibility to teach some basic survival tips for home.
Oh and of course not everyones parents would have mental problems, which would push responsibility to the child and nor would i wish that lol! As it is a seriously hard and difficult life, but in households whereby parents are struggling I think the offspring should take some thought to help in anyway they can around the house.
Original post by frankieboy
Let's face it - people work because they need the money. It has nothing to do with pride or contributing towards society. Those days are long gone.
Let's face it - people work because they need the money. It has nothing to do with pride or contributing towards society. Those days are long gone.
Well, lol I wouldn't say pride but it feels good when the money you have is what you've earned. :P
Oh and i'd rather have a crap job than doing nothing at all, just because it would be more experience to help me apply to other jobs.
And speaking of the Daily Mail I just don't get why people read it....0_o
[QUOTE='[NyuNyu];32736676']Well, lol I wouldn't say pride but it feels good when the money you have is what you've earned. :P
Oh and i'd rather have a crap job than doing nothing at all, just because it would be more experience to help me apply to other jobs.
And speaking of the Daily Mail I just don't get why people read it....0_o
Brilliant idea, take away the scraps people live off and expect them to magically gain a job... who needs war when there's starvation that kills people much more economically when we find the jobs just do not exist for the majority of those on benefits
Oh and i'd rather have a crap job than doing nothing at all, just because it would be more experience to help me apply to other jobs.
And speaking of the Daily Mail I just don't get why people read it....0_o
Brilliant idea, take away the scraps people live off and expect them to magically gain a job... who needs war when there's starvation that kills people much more economically when we find the jobs just do not exist for the majority of those on benefits
Original post by screenager2004
No. I was left home alone when I was 13, just to wait until 5.30 when my dad came back - I was only alone for 2 hours. Before then I went to a before/after school club for an hour just so my mum could pick me up after work. The government say that after 14 a child can be left at home on their own for extended periods of time. So she has no excuse.
Also, your mum could work in the evenings while your dad was home. Or take flexible hours/job share so she is only at work from 9 til 3, leaving her free to pick the kids up from school.
So your mum only gets £80 from working 35 hours? She gets paid £2.21 an hour?
Minimum wage is £5.93. Your mum would get AT LEAST £207.55 a week. Double what she scrounges by on benefits.
She wouldn't be with her kids anyway because they'd be at school - plus kids that age want to hang out with friends or have some independence. Not be smothered like a toddler.
A 13 year old can feed itself.
Working is better for your self esteem and circulation
Also, your mum could work in the evenings while your dad was home. Or take flexible hours/job share so she is only at work from 9 til 3, leaving her free to pick the kids up from school.
So your mum only gets £80 from working 35 hours? She gets paid £2.21 an hour?
Minimum wage is £5.93. Your mum would get AT LEAST £207.55 a week. Double what she scrounges by on benefits.
She wouldn't be with her kids anyway because they'd be at school - plus kids that age want to hang out with friends or have some independence. Not be smothered like a toddler.
A 13 year old can feed itself.
Working is better for your self esteem and circulation
What makes you think I know my dad, what makes you assume he's alive?
Original post by TheCurlyHairedDude
What makes you think I know my dad, what makes you assume he's alive?
Because you said
Quite frankly, I'm sick and tired of people making these ridiculous statements about people on the welfare system... Yes, fair enough if you're a single person/mum/dad or whatever, but don't generalize everyone on the system....
Please, do point out where I've mentioned having a dad/knowing my dad/ a dad beign present in my household?
If she was given the opportunity to work then she should have taken it. Does she not have any pride?
Even if she earned say 10% less than what she would receive by relying on benefits, she would actually be working for the money not just sitting on her arse. If you are capable of working then you should... she would through his experience no doubt have increased confidence, experience and training - setting her up for better paid jobs in the future. But then again, if you are the type of person who likes to take the easy option - perhaps you don't deserve that someone who is willing to work harder does.
If you're on unemployment benefits, you should be spending the equivalent time looking for jobs as what you would working if you were employed... Undeniably there are people who are made redundant or whom of no fault of their own become jobless - but if you are genuinely looking for work then there is work out there.
Even if she earned say 10% less than what she would receive by relying on benefits, she would actually be working for the money not just sitting on her arse. If you are capable of working then you should... she would through his experience no doubt have increased confidence, experience and training - setting her up for better paid jobs in the future. But then again, if you are the type of person who likes to take the easy option - perhaps you don't deserve that someone who is willing to work harder does.
If you're on unemployment benefits, you should be spending the equivalent time looking for jobs as what you would working if you were employed... Undeniably there are people who are made redundant or whom of no fault of their own become jobless - but if you are genuinely looking for work then there is work out there.
Original post by soffiapink
perhaps she should have become financially stable before having kids....been responsible and not brought children into the world and make other people pay for them.
Damn that is such an ill-informed and naive statement to make. You cant possibly know their circumstances. Her children may be disabled forcing her to take time off work. She may have been made redundant. She might have been married and had a husband working full-time who died in a tragic accident.
There are a million and one possibilities, stop being silly when you dont have all the information.
Original post by Nice'n'Easy
If she was given the opportunity to work then she should have taken it. Does she not have any pride?
Even if she earned say 10% less than what she would receive by relying on benefits, she would actually be working for the money not just sitting on her arse. If you are capable of working then you should... she would through his experience no doubt have increased confidence, experience and training - setting her up for better paid jobs in the future. But then again, if you are the type of person who likes to take the easy option - perhaps you don't deserve that someone who is willing to work harder does.
If you're on unemployment benefits, you should be spending the equivalent time looking for jobs as what you would working if you were employed... Undeniably there are people who are made redundant or whom of no fault of their own become jobless - but if you are genuinely looking for work then there is work out there.
Even if she earned say 10% less than what she would receive by relying on benefits, she would actually be working for the money not just sitting on her arse. If you are capable of working then you should... she would through his experience no doubt have increased confidence, experience and training - setting her up for better paid jobs in the future. But then again, if you are the type of person who likes to take the easy option - perhaps you don't deserve that someone who is willing to work harder does.
If you're on unemployment benefits, you should be spending the equivalent time looking for jobs as what you would working if you were employed... Undeniably there are people who are made redundant or whom of no fault of their own become jobless - but if you are genuinely looking for work then there is work out there.
She's 50, has arthritis, mother of 4... Used to be an alcoholic...
And she doesn't sit around on her ass actually, she's a busy woman.
Original post by Nice'n'Easy
If she was given the opportunity to work then she should have taken it. Does she not have any pride?
Even if she earned say 10% less than what she would receive by relying on benefits, she would actually be working for the money not just sitting on her arse. If you are capable of working then you should... she would through his experience no doubt have increased confidence, experience and training - setting her up for better paid jobs in the future. But then again, if you are the type of person who likes to take the easy option - perhaps you don't deserve that someone who is willing to work harder does.
If you're on unemployment benefits, you should be spending the equivalent time looking for jobs as what you would working if you were employed... Undeniably there are people who are made redundant or whom of no fault of their own become jobless - but if you are genuinely looking for work then there is work out there.
Even if she earned say 10% less than what she would receive by relying on benefits, she would actually be working for the money not just sitting on her arse. If you are capable of working then you should... she would through his experience no doubt have increased confidence, experience and training - setting her up for better paid jobs in the future. But then again, if you are the type of person who likes to take the easy option - perhaps you don't deserve that someone who is willing to work harder does.
If you're on unemployment benefits, you should be spending the equivalent time looking for jobs as what you would working if you were employed... Undeniably there are people who are made redundant or whom of no fault of their own become jobless - but if you are genuinely looking for work then there is work out there.
Its so easy to make this kind of statement when those arent your circumstances. Why work full time for less money than you get from welfare for doing next to nothing but filling out the odd form? Thats just silly. It would be more productive to spend your time getting some kind of training/education and finding a job that isnt minimum wage.
Original post by Nice'n'Easy
Does she not have any pride?
Pride is relative to the person. Not all people gain pride by working. Money, sure. But you're lucky if you gain any pride from working to boot. And there's not a lot of pride involved with barely being able to make ends meet, even if you did earn that money yourself. In fact rather than pride, you'll probably gain cynicism and bitterness about the fact that you're giving 8 hours of your time to someone else each day in order to "not quite" get by.
I think part of the problem here is actually the workplace, not the benefit system. It seems to me from speaking to my elders that people did used to get more pride from their work. You had a longer more stable career that you could build.
Nowadays, bosses are rubbish, organisation is rubbish, delegation is rubbish (for the most part anyway) - there is a degree of incompetence in this country regarding the workplace that is very worrying. Outsourcing is rife, trade skills are down, opportunities are less. Go back to Thatcher and Scargill era to really see that fall apart big time. Coupled with the feeling that you could get laid off at any minute.
The picture you paint of the workplace as a place of "pride"- I wish it really was like that nowadays. Luckily my trade I enjoy and am interested in, but I feel sorry for those who hate their job as many do. And to suggest someone tie themselves up in that in order to gain "experience" in something they hate anyway is just unrealistic IMHO.
In other words, if the workplace was such that people COULD take pride in their work and enjoy it, there would be a lot more motivation for people to actually take pride in it and want to do it.
Of course this doesn't apply across the board, but it is worryingly rife.
Original post by wactm
I agree completely with the OP.
The national minimun wage needs to be raised to £8/9. It isnt enough to raise a family on currently.
The national minimun wage needs to be raised to £8/9. It isnt enough to raise a family on currently.
That would be a dreadful move for the economy - think about it....... Wages up, costs of production increase ( Someone ad your self who wants to start a busines, this would be your worst nightmare) competition would fall globally as Aggregate supply falls - this leads to inflation and because wages are up inflation would increase aswell, then our exports would decrease due to the price rise and we run up a larger deficit, I don't know what products you want to start selling but do you still think raising min wage would be benigicial to businesses? Hint: it would not.
(edited 12 years ago)
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