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Gender identity confusion: (Long post)
i have realised that I seek a masculine identity, which I am not secure of, but which is more and more significant as I grow older and desire more meaningful relationships. When I was young, I almost always fantasised being a female and connected very strongly to a feminine identity, the appearance of an angelic and beautiful woman being far more desirable for myself than an unattractive man. While I would not openly exhibit female behaviour ( e.G. Cross-dressing, playing with dolls, etc) I would engage much more easily with female friendships and engage in female-oriented activities such as co-operation. However, my psyche was not entirely shaped this way, and I experienced male traits nevertheless such as competition and exhibiting the male gender role of being active within adventure-oriented games. However, I almost always adopted mannerisms of females (not gender specific ones, but mannerisms of particular female people) and viewed femininity as positive (empathy, tenderness, caring) and masculinity as negative (aggression, lack of awareness of others' feelings, being disagreeable). I felt far more comfortable and confident within a female identity, and wished to be a girl, but was aware of my biological sex, and suppressed the fantasy from the view of any others. I knew I would grow into a man, but at a young age, such future prospects were not of great importance. This section of an article summarises certain parts of my sentiments accurately:
"some boys suffer from a chronic sense of feeling inadequate in their masculinity, but do not imitate female behaviour. These boys may exhibit an almost phobic reaction to rough-and-tumble play and an intense dislike of team sports because of poor eye-hand coordination. This inability to bond with other boys through sports leads to isolation, profound loneliness, a weak sense of masculinity, deep resentment, and often depression."
i only began to establish a certain sense of masculine identity during pubertal growth, and stopped consistent fantasising of being female, and have not exhibited traits of homosexuality (which is difficult for others to understand, as many often perceive that preferring a feminine identity connects with being homosexual). While I have a certain sense of masculinity, I cannot clearly establish that I can fully embrace being a man with male traits, as I do not feel that this is truly what forms my entire being, although biologically, what it ought to be. I still have occasional and short fantasies where I have certain mannerisms of females I admire, and often feel (especially around those particularly "masculine) more effeminate in the company of other men. Often if asked about gender, men will say "i am male, and proud of it, I wouldn't want to be a woman" and vice versa. I am unable to say that I am a man and proud of it. As previously mentioned, I viewed feminine traits often as positive, and ones I should have, and male traits as negative, even if it was not so. For example, men are psychologically "problem solvers", in a relationship or other issue; they will see a problem and try to fix it. This can be a hindrance or advantageous depending on the situation, whereas women view problems in terms of relationships between others and seek solutions in the interests of the feelings of others – such a trait is far more favourable to me. While I can accept certain male traits to a certain extent, which exist with female ones, I cannot be happy when exhibiting male traits, and often resent the fact that male traits are presented as a "problem" towards female traits. For example, if a woman says she is tired, it may be to signal that she has had a stressful day and seeks affection from the man. However, the man, as a problem solver may say "take a rest" feeling that that is what the woman ought to do. The woman is emotionally unfulfilled by not receiving the affection she desires, and the male trait is seen as the "problem", and this forms part of my subconscious thought process when I favour female traits.
I believe one major cause of exhibiting such traits is the fact that I have been unable to secure a true emotional connection with my father and view him as a role model from which I could form my own masculinity. While it has been formed to a certain extent this way, it is in no way sufficient. I have a bond of familial love and care for my father, but not the sense of connection by self-identification. Most of my identity by familial relationships was formed by my mother, being the main parent who raised me. While as a parent she can give parental love and instil values for me to be a well-rounded person, as well as providing a base for relationships with women, she cannot provide a full sense of masculine identity. Consequently I find meaningful relationships with other males much more difficult. I am unsure whether it is due to a difficulty in finding an identity or whether I am simply not very sociable.
I am also aware of the fact that to be a man, one does not have to be a stereotypical macho sports fan, but can be sensitive, empathic and loving, but a sense of manliness, strength, and a certain expression of gender role is required, and is what I lack. Similarly to what the "when boys won't be boys" article states, this lack of masculinity contributes to lack of self-esteem, anxiety and difficulty in forming meaningful relationships with other males. I believe that this has also contributed to the fact that I am not attractive for romantic relationships, as for heterosexual relationships to start, a woman must be attracted to a man with male traits that will (subconsciously thought) provide the strongest children, and vice versa. As I do not have a strong masculine identity, I feel that this sense of romantic relationships is not possible, and in certain ways, I simply assume the role of another girl in a friendship with a female, although not in all ways. However, in terms of desire for romantic relationships, I wish to assume the role of a male, but have very little will or desire for dominance or a sense of self-worth to be a suitable partner. While relationships no longer need the stereotypical breadwinning protective male and submissive female, certain traits of these gender roles are still exhibited within romantic relationships, and I lack this sense of masculinity in order to create any sense of a relationship.
"some boys suffer from a chronic sense of feeling inadequate in their masculinity, but do not imitate female behaviour. These boys may exhibit an almost phobic reaction to rough-and-tumble play and an intense dislike of team sports because of poor eye-hand coordination. This inability to bond with other boys through sports leads to isolation, profound loneliness, a weak sense of masculinity, deep resentment, and often depression."
i only began to establish a certain sense of masculine identity during pubertal growth, and stopped consistent fantasising of being female, and have not exhibited traits of homosexuality (which is difficult for others to understand, as many often perceive that preferring a feminine identity connects with being homosexual). While I have a certain sense of masculinity, I cannot clearly establish that I can fully embrace being a man with male traits, as I do not feel that this is truly what forms my entire being, although biologically, what it ought to be. I still have occasional and short fantasies where I have certain mannerisms of females I admire, and often feel (especially around those particularly "masculine) more effeminate in the company of other men. Often if asked about gender, men will say "i am male, and proud of it, I wouldn't want to be a woman" and vice versa. I am unable to say that I am a man and proud of it. As previously mentioned, I viewed feminine traits often as positive, and ones I should have, and male traits as negative, even if it was not so. For example, men are psychologically "problem solvers", in a relationship or other issue; they will see a problem and try to fix it. This can be a hindrance or advantageous depending on the situation, whereas women view problems in terms of relationships between others and seek solutions in the interests of the feelings of others – such a trait is far more favourable to me. While I can accept certain male traits to a certain extent, which exist with female ones, I cannot be happy when exhibiting male traits, and often resent the fact that male traits are presented as a "problem" towards female traits. For example, if a woman says she is tired, it may be to signal that she has had a stressful day and seeks affection from the man. However, the man, as a problem solver may say "take a rest" feeling that that is what the woman ought to do. The woman is emotionally unfulfilled by not receiving the affection she desires, and the male trait is seen as the "problem", and this forms part of my subconscious thought process when I favour female traits.
I believe one major cause of exhibiting such traits is the fact that I have been unable to secure a true emotional connection with my father and view him as a role model from which I could form my own masculinity. While it has been formed to a certain extent this way, it is in no way sufficient. I have a bond of familial love and care for my father, but not the sense of connection by self-identification. Most of my identity by familial relationships was formed by my mother, being the main parent who raised me. While as a parent she can give parental love and instil values for me to be a well-rounded person, as well as providing a base for relationships with women, she cannot provide a full sense of masculine identity. Consequently I find meaningful relationships with other males much more difficult. I am unsure whether it is due to a difficulty in finding an identity or whether I am simply not very sociable.
I am also aware of the fact that to be a man, one does not have to be a stereotypical macho sports fan, but can be sensitive, empathic and loving, but a sense of manliness, strength, and a certain expression of gender role is required, and is what I lack. Similarly to what the "when boys won't be boys" article states, this lack of masculinity contributes to lack of self-esteem, anxiety and difficulty in forming meaningful relationships with other males. I believe that this has also contributed to the fact that I am not attractive for romantic relationships, as for heterosexual relationships to start, a woman must be attracted to a man with male traits that will (subconsciously thought) provide the strongest children, and vice versa. As I do not have a strong masculine identity, I feel that this sense of romantic relationships is not possible, and in certain ways, I simply assume the role of another girl in a friendship with a female, although not in all ways. However, in terms of desire for romantic relationships, I wish to assume the role of a male, but have very little will or desire for dominance or a sense of self-worth to be a suitable partner. While relationships no longer need the stereotypical breadwinning protective male and submissive female, certain traits of these gender roles are still exhibited within romantic relationships, and I lack this sense of masculinity in order to create any sense of a relationship.
Interestingly I think you exhibit what would be psychologically considered the typical "love shy" man.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love-shyness
This e-book explains more:
http://www.love-shy.com/Gilmartin/toc.html
Personally I think it represents a mild form of transexuality that afflicts a surprisng amount of men though few will ever admit to it of course.
Personally I think in your case you are somewhat further down the "transexual line", somewhere in between full blown transexuality and love shyness.
To be fair the recent discoveries of brain sex: and the fact that 17% if people actually have a brain sex that is opposite to their physical sex doesn't make these ideas seem too far fetched.
You are however right that you are sending "subconcious" messages which will more than likely put women of you - for their primary mode of attraction is on the subconcious/emotional level. You really only have two options, either fake a personality untill the attachment is enough to make her overlook the instability which is very hard to all but the best actors I know. Alternatively you could aim for a job with high money/security and you will find you will get some women then. And if you don't at least you will be rich enough to hire some.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love-shyness
This e-book explains more:
http://www.love-shy.com/Gilmartin/toc.html
Personally I think it represents a mild form of transexuality that afflicts a surprisng amount of men though few will ever admit to it of course.
Personally I think in your case you are somewhat further down the "transexual line", somewhere in between full blown transexuality and love shyness.
To be fair the recent discoveries of brain sex: and the fact that 17% if people actually have a brain sex that is opposite to their physical sex doesn't make these ideas seem too far fetched.
You are however right that you are sending "subconcious" messages which will more than likely put women of you - for their primary mode of attraction is on the subconcious/emotional level. You really only have two options, either fake a personality untill the attachment is enough to make her overlook the instability which is very hard to all but the best actors I know. Alternatively you could aim for a job with high money/security and you will find you will get some women then. And if you don't at least you will be rich enough to hire some.
I have the same problem
This article explains my mentality exactly - if that makes anything clearer. http://www.love-shy.com/Gilmartin/Chapter05/Malelesbian.html
This is a serious problem that could affect you for the rest of your life - I have heard many accounts of men who never date or never marry at 30, 40 50...years old. Not to instil panic but at least sharing the problem with a friend or parent is the way to start, and you can change, no matter how difficult it may be.
I'm going through similar problems.
Eien
This is a serious problem that could affect you for the rest of your life - I have heard many accounts of men who never date or never marry at 30, 40 50...years old. Not to instil panic but at least sharing the problem with a friend or parent is the way to start, and you can change, no matter how difficult it may be.
For what it is worth I am socially anxious and have extreme difficulty talking to girls, approaching them and so on, but this isn't just around females, it is also around males, but obviously shyness is made worse by the prescence of the opposite sex. In anycase love shyness is associated with issues of gender roles, and I think it is the main distinction.
For me I have all the characteristics of being "love shy" except approaching girls - I can approach them fairly easily and much more easily than men, but only in a friendly fashion, there is no way I can achieve any kind of romantic 'spark', it just seems impossible. All the while my friends seem to be able to date one person after the other...
ferrus
Social anxiety can do that too. Though the distinction between the two is a blurred one.
For what it is worth I am socially anxious and have extreme difficulty talking to girls, approaching them and so on, but this isn't just around females, it is also around males, but obviously shyness is made worse by the prescence of the opposite sex. In anycase love shyness is associated with issues of gender roles, and I think it is the main distinction.
For what it is worth I am socially anxious and have extreme difficulty talking to girls, approaching them and so on, but this isn't just around females, it is also around males, but obviously shyness is made worse by the prescence of the opposite sex. In anycase love shyness is associated with issues of gender roles, and I think it is the main distinction.
Yes, the characteristics he describes to tend to reflect somebody who is socially shy, and I have a friend very similar, except it is not based in gender role and is just based around general shyness. I suppose for some, "love shyness" means shyness in approaching females in a romantic manner rather than in general - as stated in the ebook where some younger love-shys were not all timid in approaching women but almost all related to a feminine identity and rejected "rough and tumble" play.
Anonymous
For me I have all the characteristics of being "love shy" except approaching girls ... there is no way I can achieve any kind of romantic 'spark'
I was wondering if anybody knows what help there is out there for love-shyness - apparently few psychologists are aware of it as a serious, but the study was conducted in america in 1988, so I'm not sure if the situation has changed..
Anonymous
I was wondering if anybody knows what help there is out there for love-shyness - apparently few psychologists are aware of it as a serious, but the study was conducted in america in 1988, so I'm not sure if the situation has changed..
ferrus
Not really, it isn't taken as "serious", but if you find a suitable mental helath professional they may be able to help you if they are open minded enough. Have you had any help?
No, I have had no help, nor have I ever talked of it before - it was never really a problem in my younger years, I loved fantasising being a girl - I felt so much more confident and free with it. It's not the sort of thing you want to shout from the top of the mountains, so I haven't talked to anyone I know about it, although I would be willing to talk to a neutral party such as a mental health professional, although I wouldn't know where to start looking for one without having to use a credit card on the internet which I can't do
This is only my opinion, rather than scientific fact, but it seems that perhaps becoming masculine has been easier in recent years since the levels of testosterone would have significantly increased, meaning your brain would have developed into a more masculine one, even if you were born with a female brain, meaning that you would have a mixture of the two characteristics. It's unfortunate that it isn't taken seriously, especially for men, where it can lead to extreme difficulty in initiating a relationship. However, you don't seem to have the shyness of approaching women to an extreme level, since you can make friendships, so you can build up all the possible traits that DO make you appealing to women (chances are that you are more empathic and sensitive than the average man) and use that to build up confidence.
The worst of it is that when I feel unconfident in myself (most of the
time if it's talking to somebody I am attracted to, but can be in many
different circumstances, even with people I know well) my speech
becomes hesitant with badly formed english and awful and inaudible
pronunciation, and I almost always have to repeat myself - it's only
when I am completely at ease I can speak perfectly. I feel I have so much emotion and connection locked away that I cannot seem to share with anyone, and
instead I wear a mask of a boring, nice enough person, but not the
sort of person to enjoy oneself with. I wish so much to express myself
to the world, find love and have children, I know I can start with a
positive attitude within myself - there have been times when I have
been completely confident with people and it was such an amazing
feeling to express myself freely and form meaningful relationships
with others. However, these types of situation are rare. Despite a
more positive attitude I have generated, I still feel the unavoidable
barrier between me and most other people - most others talk to me very
differently to their friends, they are not relaxed or at ease with me,
and talk as if I am a much older or younger person with which they
cannot socialise naturally. This is in part due to me being reserved
and quiet, perhaps creating the impression I am unapproachable. I have
tried socialising, but conversation just turns out to be unnatural - I
imagine how I could converse with someone if I were confident, and
this happens - rarely. However, in most cases I just can't do it - be
it down to the fact that what I say wouldn't seem appropriate or
appreciated by the other person, or whether conversation does not
naturally steer in my direction.
time if it's talking to somebody I am attracted to, but can be in many
different circumstances, even with people I know well) my speech
becomes hesitant with badly formed english and awful and inaudible
pronunciation, and I almost always have to repeat myself - it's only
when I am completely at ease I can speak perfectly. I feel I have so much emotion and connection locked away that I cannot seem to share with anyone, and
instead I wear a mask of a boring, nice enough person, but not the
sort of person to enjoy oneself with. I wish so much to express myself
to the world, find love and have children, I know I can start with a
positive attitude within myself - there have been times when I have
been completely confident with people and it was such an amazing
feeling to express myself freely and form meaningful relationships
with others. However, these types of situation are rare. Despite a
more positive attitude I have generated, I still feel the unavoidable
barrier between me and most other people - most others talk to me very
differently to their friends, they are not relaxed or at ease with me,
and talk as if I am a much older or younger person with which they
cannot socialise naturally. This is in part due to me being reserved
and quiet, perhaps creating the impression I am unapproachable. I have
tried socialising, but conversation just turns out to be unnatural - I
imagine how I could converse with someone if I were confident, and
this happens - rarely. However, in most cases I just can't do it - be
it down to the fact that what I say wouldn't seem appropriate or
appreciated by the other person, or whether conversation does not
naturally steer in my direction.
Firebird
Is there a spark there for you? As in, do you fancy girls?
Perhaps you just need to find a very effeminate girl, who will make you feel masculine?
Perhaps you just need to find a very effeminate girl, who will make you feel masculine?
Very much so, probably like men, there have been three girls I have been very much attracted to, one I loved, and there have been a few I have been attracted to, but I have never made any advances in these cases, as after conversation it seems that there is very little reason to pursue it. I would consider myself romantic and sentimental, and nothing less than true romance will suffice for me, I see nothing wrong with "fun" relationships but they seem a useless pursuit for me - not as if I would be involved in such a relationship anyway. In fact, any girl I have a good rapport with immediately subconsciously becomes a "potential life partner" which I attempt to stop myself pondering on, but is extremely difficult until I realise that love will never come to fruition. (I.e. every time). The basis of these decisions is on both believing that I don't love her and she will not love me, rather than just one. The main problem is that any sense of "masculinity" I possess is "negative" to me, I want to reject it, automatically reducing my desirability as a male. The only one which I do not wish to reject is male sexual desire and certain other male characteristics which are not necessarily typically "manly" but are associated with being male. I also have an unusual sense of confidence since the confidence in my abilities is strong, I believe I can achieve any goal for studying, work, careers, and helping others, but when it comes to socialising, and in particular socialising in a romantic way, my internal monologue cannot help but reinforce self-defeatism and lack of hope for any romantic achievement (since I have never had a romantic connection from anybody). Couple that with the fact that the majority seem to find it so easy and it turns into a vicious cycle - Lack of confidence = Lack of desirability = Lack of confidence.
Yes but confidence is hard enough for most to grasp well, especially when bad childhood experiences ilike bullying, bad parenting and of course pyschological issues such as gender identity or mental illness come into play. In reality these underlying problems will need to be tackled before you can become confident and then have sucess with women.
Luckily I have never experienced serious bullying or demeanment, which appeared to be a major problem to those similar to me. I think it is a combination of both confidence and gender identity, with me being confident in my own identity.
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