Does it matter where you get your PGCE from?

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-Innocence-
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#1
Report Thread starter 10 years ago
#1
As in, will it effect your employment prospects if you do your PGCE with a bottom of the league table university? I recently graduated with a degree in Politics and hope to do a Citizenship PGCE next year. I'm living in London and I wanted to complete my PGCE here, however a very limited number of University do the required PGCE, apart from Institute of Education which is incredibly tough to get in to. The other Universities that have a Citizenship PGCE available within London are, London Met and Middlesex University, both bottom of the league table universities. So, just in general do employers care where you done your PGCE or do they prefer a candidate who got their qualifications from a much better establishment?

Thanks in advance.
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Mr M
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#2
Report 10 years ago
#2
The university you attended during your PGCE year is not a consideration when making appointments. However, a word of caution, the National Curriculum is currently being rewritten and first drafts for some subjects will be released on 5th September. It is likely that Citizenship will not be included in the new NC although this may not be confirmed for a few months. This doesn't necessarily matter as, once you have QTS, you can teach any subject but I thought you might appreciate the warning.
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princessnavi22
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#3
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#3
Good advice from Mr M... citzenship is a subject that is more than likely going to disappear - perhaps you should think about your options?

In regards to the universities, I'm not sure.. I did my Primary PGCE at the IOE (great uni, I loved my time there!) and when I was doing my placements around London everyone was impressed with the 'IOE name'.. however, I'm originally from the Midlands and wanted to move back home after my PGCE to settle here. Hardly any schools in the Midlands had heard of the IOE that I applied to - I genuinely thought people would know how good the IOE is for teacher training, but all the schools in the Midlands had only heard of 'Midland' teacher training uni's like Newman and BCU.. if you're planning to stay in London I'd say apply to IOE as I do think it will help you get a job.. anywhere else and I'd say it probably doesn't make too much of a difference - unless you're lucky and apply to a school where the head had studied at the IOE himself like I did!

Good luck! Any further questions PM me
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gingerbreadman85
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#4
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#4
QTS is QTS. After that you just have to prove yourself rather than simply use your university's name to open doors for you.
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dobbs
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#5
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#5
As most people in this thread have given good advice (exception being gingerbreadman85), there are certainly some advantages to going to places which are more respected as teaching institutions than others...and this doesn't always show up in the league tables.

For example, some universities are respected for the education research coming out of them, rather than the actual quality of their PGCE courses. When I went for my interview at my school I was told that Bristol were highly respected for their educational research, though they are within the top 10 of teaching institutions they are not right at the top.

Yes, gingerbreadman is correct that "QTS is QTS" but with teaching places being in such demand, the more you can do to impress interviewers, the better. Using your university's name to open doors is not all you are doing, you have gone through the process of applying and gaining a place at that University, and having gone through what may be regarded as a higher quality (and perhaps more challenging) teaching course, and therefore you're not using their name, you're demonstrating you've done your training at a higher quality institution.

Finally - agree completely on the Citizenship thing. The people I know on the Citizenship PGCE at Bristol had so many problems finding jobs these years, many schools simply integrate Citizenship into PSHE lessons, or tutor time, and as MrM says it is very likely this is going to disappear from the curriculum next year I'm afraid.

Look into Geography perhaps? That's what I do, and we've been told to expect that some of the Citizenship key concepts/ideas could be integrated into our area of the National Curriculum
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Interrobang
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#6
Report 10 years ago
#6
The reference from the uni and your placement school(s) will be far more important
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princessnavi22
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#7
Report 10 years ago
#7
(Original post by Beth123)
If the uni that you do your undergrad at is rated poorly - does this mean you have less chance of getting into a more reputable institution (for example, IOE) for the (primary) PGCE (but you meet A Level/GCSE and degree level crtieria). Sorry for taking over, any replies appreciated x
It depends on poorly, I went to Keele which is by no means a top uni but I got in - they look at your portfolio; your experience, your passion and your grades. Good luck!
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amoghars
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#8
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#8
The university you choose may not play a role in getting you a job. However, it matters for one year of your PGCE. Some Universities are much disorganized and have poor relationship with their placement schools. You need to be with the Uni which supports your learning as a trainee teacher.
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gingerbreadman85
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#9
Report 10 years ago
#9
(Original post by amoghars)
The university you choose may not play a role in getting you a job. However, it matters for one of your PGCE. Some Universities are much disorganized and have poor relationship with their placement schools. You need to be with the Uni which supports your learning as a trainee teacher.
I totally agree. Also the most important thing is the relationship you have with your school mentors as they are not only going to teach you to teach, but also pass judgement on whether you are good enough or not. Remember, you are going to spend something like 80-90% of your time out on placement, not in lectures!

My faculty had a top notch Chemistry specialist with tons of awards and well regarded research papers, but i never saw her because she was so busy researching.

If it matters to you the "prestige" of being at a top flight university, or if you want to do an M-level PGCE and then do a Masters (at which point the research standing become more relevant), then fine. If not, any "reasonable" university will probably do, although my first choice was Cambridge (and got in), my second choice was Sheffield (which isn't exactly top 10).

In the end when you go to interview at a school, they want someone who can TEACH, not just someone who went to a good university.

With regards to entry requirements, it's a case of demand and your other attributes. If you got an OK degree from an average uni, but show promise and passion for teaching, they are more likely to accept you than if you are a academic with an excellent degree from oxbridge without a drop of teaching potential.

With the Politics, have you thought about History, or RE? The latter often is used to cover the PSHE requirement (at my school Ethics, Theology and Citizenship is a core subject and covers the entire of PSHE as well as being a GCSE).
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linkdapink
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#10
Report 10 years ago
#10
I'm not entirely convinced it does. I had a place at Leeds, and have moved to Hallam, purely because I have gotten to know the tutors and the other students on my course, which is better for me to be in this position (in my head) when starting the PGCE year. This is after doing an SKE in Maths here.
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-Innocence-
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#11
Report Thread starter 10 years ago
#11
Thanks everyone for all the advice.

(Original post by Mr M)
The university you attended during your PGCE year is not a consideration when making appointments. However, a word of caution, the National Curriculum is currently being rewritten and first drafts for some subjects will be released on 5th September. It is likely that Citizenship will not be included in the new NC although this may not be confirmed for a few months. This doesn't necessarily matter as, once you have QTS, you can teach any subject but I thought you might appreciate the warning.
Thanks for the tip. I've heard that Citizenship is being considered to be removed from the NC, but I didn't realise the chances were that high.

(Original post by princessnavi22)
Good advice from Mr M... citzenship is a subject that is more than likely going to disappear - perhaps you should think about your options?

In regards to the universities, I'm not sure.. I did my Primary PGCE at the IOE (great uni, I loved my time there!) and when I was doing my placements around London everyone was impressed with the 'IOE name'.. however, I'm originally from the Midlands and wanted to move back home after my PGCE to settle here. Hardly any schools in the Midlands had heard of the IOE that I applied to - I genuinely thought people would know how good the IOE is for teacher training, but all the schools in the Midlands had only heard of 'Midland' teacher training uni's like Newman and BCU.. if you're planning to stay in London I'd say apply to IOE as I do think it will help you get a job.. anywhere else and I'd say it probably doesn't make too much of a difference - unless you're lucky and apply to a school where the head had studied at the IOE himself like I did!

Good luck! Any further questions PM me
Thanks for the advice! I'm looking into different options at the moment. Also, I might take you up on the offer of PMs if I have any further questions!


(Original post by dobbs)
As most people in this thread have given good advice (exception being gingerbreadman85), there are certainly some advantages to going to places which are more respected as teaching institutions than others...and this doesn't always show up in the league tables.

For example, some universities are respected for the education research coming out of them, rather than the actual quality of their PGCE courses. When I went for my interview at my school I was told that Bristol were highly respected for their educational research, though they are within the top 10 of teaching institutions they are not right at the top.

Yes, gingerbreadman is correct that "QTS is QTS" but with teaching places being in such demand, the more you can do to impress interviewers, the better. Using your university's name to open doors is not all you are doing, you have gone through the process of applying and gaining a place at that University, and having gone through what may be regarded as a higher quality (and perhaps more challenging) teaching course, and therefore you're not using their name, you're demonstrating you've done your training at a higher quality institution.

Finally - agree completely on the Citizenship thing. The people I know on the Citizenship PGCE at Bristol had so many problems finding jobs these years, many schools simply integrate Citizenship into PSHE lessons, or tutor time, and as MrM says it is very likely this is going to disappear from the curriculum next year I'm afraid.

Look into Geography perhaps? That's what I do, and we've been told to expect that some of the Citizenship key concepts/ideas could be integrated into our area of the National Curriculum
TY for the advice. I'm looking into other PGCE courses at the moment. I'm not entirely sure a Geography PGCE will be suitable for me considering I did a Politics degree and covered nothing regarding Geography. But I will look into it. Thanks again.

(Original post by amoghars)
The university you choose may not play a role in getting you a job. However, it matters for one of your PGCE. Some Universities are much disorganized and have poor relationship with their placement schools. You need to be with the Uni which supports your learning as a trainee teacher.
That was one of my main concern too. The Universities that offer me the Citizenship PGCE, are not the most reputable places and from what I read, lack of support for students is a concern. Thanks for the reply.

(Original post by gingerbreadman85)

If it matters to you the "prestige" of being at a top flight university, or if you want to do an M-level PGCE and then do a Masters (at which point the research standing become more relevant), then fine. If not, any "reasonable" university will probably do, although my first choice was Cambridge (and got in), my second choice was Sheffield (which isn't exactly top 10).

In the end when you go to interview at a school, they want someone who can TEACH, not just someone who went to a good university.

With regards to entry requirements, it's a case of demand and your other attributes. If you got an OK degree from an average uni, but show promise and passion for teaching, they are more likely to accept you than if you are a academic with an excellent degree from oxbridge without a drop of teaching potential.

With the Politics, have you thought about History, or RE? The latter often is used to cover the PSHE requirement (at my school Ethics, Theology and Citizenship is a core subject and covers the entire of PSHE as well as being a GCSE).
My main concern isn't to get into a "prestige" University. Just a reputable/reasonable one. I understand that the chunk of my PGCE is dependant on how well I do on my placements, but at the same time I'm aware of competition. Having a relatively well established institution listed on my CV rather than say, London Met- might better my chances when it comes to employment. Plus all the other concerns that come from gaining a PGCE from a University that doesn't have the best track record when is comes to teaching/supporting the students.

I'm looking into other PGCE courses. History seems like the closet one for me to teach, but still I imagine it'll be quite difficult to get in considering my initial degree is in Politics and throughout the three years I didn't really cover that many History related modules. Thanks for the reply.
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Sam0337
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#12
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#12
(Original post by dobbs)
As most people in this thread have given good advice (exception being gingerbreadman85), there are certainly some advantages to going to places which are more respected as teaching institutions than others...and this doesn't always show up in the league tables.

For example, some universities are respected for the education research coming out of them, rather than the actual quality of their PGCE courses. When I went for my interview at my school I was told that Bristol were highly respected for their educational research, though they are within the top 10 of teaching institutions they are not right at the top.

Yes, gingerbreadman is correct that "QTS is QTS" but with teaching places being in such demand, the more you can do to impress interviewers, the better. Using your university's name to open doors is not all you are doing, you have gone through the process of applying and gaining a place at that University, and having gone through what may be regarded as a higher quality (and perhaps more challenging) teaching course, and therefore you're not using their name, you're demonstrating you've done your training at a higher quality institution.

Finally - agree completely on the Citizenship thing. The people I know on the Citizenship PGCE at Bristol had so many problems finding jobs these years, many schools simply integrate Citizenship into PSHE lessons, or tutor time, and as MrM says it is very likely this is going to disappear from the curriculum next year I'm afraid.

Look into Geography perhaps? That's what I do, and we've been told to expect that some of the Citizenship key concepts/ideas could be integrated into our area of the National Curriculum
Hello. Can you suggest some great university to do postgraduate PGCE for primary? I’m an international student and want to teach in the UK. Thanks
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Sam0337
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#13
Report 1 month ago
#13
(Original post by -Innocence-)
Thanks everyone for all the advice.



Thanks for the tip. I've heard that Citizenship is being considered to be removed from the NC, but I didn't realise the chances were that high.



Thanks for the advice! I'm looking into different options at the moment. Also, I might take you up on the offer of PMs if I have any further questions!




TY for the advice. I'm looking into other PGCE courses at the moment. I'm not entirely sure a Geography PGCE will be suitable for me considering I did a Politics degree and covered nothing regarding Geography. But I will look into it. Thanks again.



That was one of my main concern too. The Universities that offer me the Citizenship PGCE, are not the most reputable places and from what I read, lack of support for students is a concern. Thanks for the reply.



My main concern isn't to get into a "prestige" University. Just a reputable/reasonable one. I understand that the chunk of my PGCE is dependant on how well I do on my placements, but at the same time I'm aware of competition. Having a relatively well established institution listed on my CV rather than say, London Met- might better my chances when it comes to employment. Plus all the other concerns that come from gaining a PGCE from a University that doesn't have the best track record when is comes to teaching/supporting the students.

I'm looking into other PGCE courses. History seems like the closet one for me to teach, but still I imagine it'll be quite difficult to get in considering my initial degree is in Politics and throughout the three years I didn't really cover that many History related modules. Thanks for the reply.
Hello. Which university have you decided to PGCE from? I also want to become teacher
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Sam0337
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#14
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#14
Hello. Can you kindly suggest some great university to do postgraduate PGCE to teach in primary? I’m an international student and want to teach in the Uk later. Thanks.
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