Why isn't Israel allowed to defend itself?

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Chav Princess
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Every-time it retaliates against attacks on its soil, all I hear from people on TSR are words such as 'fascist', 'Zionist', 'evil', 'Jews', 'terrorist state', etc.

Granted, Israel has not always engaged in military situations appropriately, but it seems that it can't do anything without being stigmatised.
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Aj12
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Because their retaliation is like napalming your garden because a spider bit you
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Barden
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why isn't iran allowed to have nukes?
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Please lick me x
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whats the red downy thingy for? damn zionists do they control tsr tooo?
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Three Mile Sprint
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They are allowed, they should simply be measured in there response.

And not take even "more" territory and build houses on it.
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Einsteinius
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http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2463775/posts

TELL ME ITS NOT EVIL!
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jumpingjesusholycow
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Because the people that Israel is supposedly 'defending' itself against are systematically having their rights taken away by Israeli foreign policy who insist Palestinians live in an ongoing state of complete autonomy with no world recognition or any equality - and for that matter, subjecting Palestinians to torture, regularly bombing schools and hospitals and refusing to allow them the basic tools and materials to rebuild their society and economy.
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Einsteinius
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(Original post by jumpingjesusholycow)
Because they people they are supposedly being 'defending' themselves against are systematically having their rights taken away by Israeli foreign policy who insist they life in a state of complete autonomy with no world recognition or any equality - and for that matter, subjecting Palestinians to torture, regularly bombing schools and hospitals and refusing to allow them the basic tools and materials to rebuild their society and economy.
Word!
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Manitude
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It's one thing to defend your country.

It's quite another to oppress a people when little over 60 years ago you were in a similar position to them.
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Some random guy
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Israel does not want a two state peace solution or they would not be expanding their grip on Palestine by building illegal settlements. Israel hopes to eventually have the entirety of the remaining Palestinian lands as part of it's own.
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AldrousHuxley
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Because it is the prime example of where 200 years ago people of one culture dominated the country, and then immigration started. The Jewish people (with a different culture) then immigrated up to the point they had the majority, and started to discriminate against the indigenous population. Europe felt bad about what happened in WW2, and gave them additional powers (which they exceeded, by eg not following what the UN told them to do). They now split the country, but still keep control and attack whenever they feel like it.

It is OK to attack a country when its government sanctioned an attack on your country. It is not OK to attack a country if a few people killed some of yours. That is an attack on the mainly innocent population, just as the riots in london were an attack on the innocent (whatever you might argue the riot was against, the shopkeepers were not responsible).

Unless it is a sanctioned, government organized attack, you cannot hold the country responsible. The lack of differentiation between who is responsible between people from a certain racial background amounts to nothing less than pure discrimination. That is no worse than shooting a few Jews because a Jew did something wrong, like Nazis did before putting them all in concentration camps.
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Ashfully
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(Original post by Please lick me x)
whats the red downy thingy for? damn zionists do they control tsr tooo?
They're in control of everything :cheeky:.

I gave you a pos rep
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JamesNeedHelp2
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No one is going to take a Chav seriously -Thread-
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Please lick me x
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(Original post by Ashfully)
They're in control of everything :cheeky:.

I gave you a pos rep
thnx babe!
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bamboleo
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Because the Palestinians should be allowed to shoot rockets indiscriminately at Israel. It is their G-d given right.
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DYKWIA
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A disproportional response should discourage damn palestinians from killing innocent Israelis for the sake of it.
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thisisnew
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The responses in this thread display just how ignorant and stupid the majority of people are when it comes to discussing this conflict. I'm surprised you can bloody dress yourselves in the morning with some of the stuff you lot come out with.

None of you are getting another reply. I'm just providing an alternate (and truthful) side to this in order to counter all of your stupid claims, so that unwitting non-partisan lurkers won't join your band wagon or be taken in by your bull****.

(Original post by Aj12)
Because their retaliation is like napalming your garden because a spider bit you
Really? Palestinians have launched some 40~ rockets at Israeli civilians since the start of July and what has Israel done in response? They carried out air-strikes on weapons factories, terrorist training facilities and smuggling tunnels or basically, empty buildings - clearly a napalm response.

People like to single Israel out for being 'disproportionate' but they do so in complete ignorance of how other countries react to similar attacks and acts of aggression. Turkey has being hastily bombing Iraqi Kurdistan in addition to shelling it in response to a Kurdish attack that killed 10 Turkish soldiers. I don't think anybody can deny Turkey the right to pursue the terrorists that attacked their soldiers yet when it comes to Israel, they're expected to sit their and take it, nonsense.

Then you have to consider the fact that Israel has killed some 8,000 Palestinians during some 63~ years of fighting with them. I can't be bothered typing out the list again, please do look up conflicts which have happened during these 63 years, look at the duration of them and then look at the death tolls, then try to tell me that Israel acts disproportionally.

(Original post by Please lick me x)
Israeli scum, they gt kids to sign the rockets before they launch thm! Hope they all gt Rabies
Who is 'they' and if you bothered looking into the story, you'd know that the kids who had just emerged from five days in a bomb shelter, were writing messages to Hasan Nasrallah and Hezbollah on the rockets, not Lebanese civilians. The rockets they were signing were also incapable of reaching Beirut from the position they were fired so go figure.

(Original post by jumpingjesusholycow)
Because they people they are supposedly being 'defending' themselves against are systematically having their rights taken away by Israeli foreign policy who insist they life in a state of complete autonomy with no world recognition or any equality - and for that matter, subjecting Palestinians to torture, regularly bombing schools and hospitals and refusing to allow them the basic tools and materials to rebuild their society and economy.
No, they're not having their rights 'systematically' removed, if you're going to make such a retarded statement, then back it up and don't bother linking to some ****ty map displaying Israeli settlement growth, the actual rights of Palestinians both in Israel and in the territories are not being 'systematically' taken away.

Arabs are generally treated better in Israel by Israelis than they are in their own Arab/Muslim countries, in fact, Palestinians are often treated worse in Arab countries than they are in the territories, refer to the refugee camps, they way they are ran and the laws preventing naturalization. Then you must consider the fact that Israel is not responsible for the actual rights in Gaza and the West Bank, Hamas and the PA are and if you bothered looking, you'd see their own individual human rights records are less than stellar. They began to have their rights taken away when their Arab 'brothers' sealed them in squalid refugee camps in order to be used as political pawns for the next half of a century.

I have no idea where you're getting the idea that Israel wants Palestine to have no international recognition or equality. Israel has afforded Palestinians numerous golden opportunities in the past which have been squandered by the Palestinians, if what you said was true, then they never would have made these offers but they did, so you're wrong. Palestinians already have de facto recognition because as of now, enough states currently recognize them and Abbas's statehood plan (which is not endorsed by the majority of Palestinians - he didn't even consult them and you want to talk about rights) is set to be a symbolic victory that will bring back violence and do nothing for the ordinary Palestinian, don't take it from me, take it from Khalid Abu Toameh, a Muslim Arab who has been covering this for decades.

You claim that Israel regularly bombs schools and hospitals yet fail to back this up, I wonder why? Gee, could it be because when Israel has bombed such places in the past, it as either been due to a mistake or because of militants using the facilities which makes them a legitimate military target? No, of course not, they bomb these places because they find it funny. We could easily just say that Palestinians regularly bomb houses, primary schools, gas pipelines etc but who cares, they aren't Jews.

You then say that Palestinians are denied the basic tools to rebuild their society and economy, yet the economy minister of Hamas recently said that unemployment in Gaza is no more than 25% and that over 1000 factories have opened - a construction boom. Besides the basics, luxury facilities have been opening in Gaza for years namely quality malls (with a 3D cinema, clothing, toys etc), restaurants, clubs, beach resorts and a recent spate of very nice hotels - pray tell how they are doing this is they are being denied basic materials - the leader of Gaza's Popular Committee against the Siege also said that the siege on goods is 60-70% over, go figure.

Also, in the first half of 2010, Gaza's economy grew by 16% almost double that of the West Bank's 9% even though Gaza is 'under siege' and 'denied access to basic tools'. It's still growing and sure, the economy is fragile and still hampered by the blockade and certain restrictions, however Israel can't afford to let Hamas go unfettered and don't give me this **** about 'collective punishment' if you want to talk about collective punishment, I'll gladly tell you about the Israeli towns 'collectively punished' by Palestinian rocket fire. Gee, imagine how the territories would flourish if Israel wasn't forced into blockading Gaza and restricting travel/access but no, people would love to see Hamas et al have the ability to acquire arms unchecked whilst benefiting from economic growth, all without making a single concession, not least on their 'inalienable right to resistance (terrorism)'.

(Original post by Some random guy)
Israel does not want a two state peace solution or they would not be expanding their grip on Palestine by building illegal settlements. Israel hopes to eventually have the entirety of the remaining Palestinian lands as part of it's own.
Yeah, Israel totally doesn't want a two-state solution. That's exactly why Israel today is half the size of what it was during it's peak of 'expansionism', that's exactly why Palestinians have squandered 31 opportunities of statehood in order to pursue the unreachable goal of destroying Israel and reclaiming the remainder of Palestine, that's exactly why Israeli offers have offered a state in Gaza and 94%~ of the West Bank with land swaps/annexations of certain settlement blocs and that's exactly why Israel builds in and up as opposed to out causing populations to expand but not area taken.

(Original post by AldrousHuxley)
Because it is the prime example of where 200 years ago people of one culture dominated the country, and then immigration started. The Jewish people (with a different culture) then immigrated up to the point they had the majority, and started to discriminate against the indigenous population. Europe felt bad about what happened in WW2, and gave them additional powers (which they exceeded, by eg not following what the UN told them to do). They now split the country, but still keep control and attack whenever they feel like it.

It is OK to attack a country when its government sanctioned an attack on your country. It is not OK to attack a country if a few people killed some of yours. That is an attack on the mainly innocent population, just as the riots in london were an attack on the innocent (whatever you might argue the riot was against, the shopkeepers were not responsible).

Unless it is a sanctioned, government organized attack, you cannot hold the country responsible. The lack of differentiation between who is responsible between people from a certain racial background amounts to nothing less than pure discrimination. That is no worse than shooting a few Jews because a Jew did something wrong, like Nazis did before putting them all in concentration camps.
This is one of the worst posts I've seen on TSR regarding Israel, and believe me, there's a lot to choose from.

First of all, Jews did not immigrate to the point where they formed a majority:


[http://www.mideastweb.org/palpop.htm - includes sources]

Secondly, the Jews did not divide Mandated Palestine nor was the idea to establish a Jewish homeland based on guilt from the Holocaust - how can you even say this nonsense? The only thing the Holocaust did was underline the need for a Jewish homeland, an idea that that really came to fruition in the late 1800's when Theodore Herzl lead the First Zionist Congress which then lead to the creation of the the World Zionist Organization. The pledge to create a Jewish homeland in Palestine came about with the Balfour Deceleration in 1917 which was incorporated into a peace treaty during the San Remo conference in 1920 (which included Britain, France, Italy, Japan and the US) - this is at least 2 decades before WW2 started.

Expanding on the above, the idea to partition Palestine originated around 1937 with the Peel Commission which was then followed up by the Woodhead Commission (later evaluated at the St. James Conference) - these were British en-devours, not nefarious Jewish plans. The idea to partition arose due to the understanding that Jewish and Arab interests were irreconcilable - during this, violence was increasing more and more. The British wanted out of Palestine as soon as possible and as such, they handed power over to the UN in 1947. The UN then established UNSCOP to devise a solution and they too came up with a partition plan which took the form of a GA resolution - Israel declared independence according to the partition plan a day before the British Mandate was due to expire and in 1949 they were admitted to the UN so no, the Jews did not exceed their authority, gain a majority through immigration or come up with a nefarious plan to split Palestine.

(Original post by torchwood)
Because the *******s have a habit of killing innocent palestinians under the pretense of self-defence.

I had a feeling you were a Jew with all the anti-Islam threads you were creating. Personally if I were you, Id be more concerned about your choice of username.

'Chav Princess - Defender of the Jews' :lol: are you the best they could come up with?
Here's a tip for you. If you don't want to expose yourself as being an anti-Semitic moron, then try not to say things like "I had a feeling you were a Jew" or "...Defender of the Jews", trying replacing the word "Jew" with "Zionist", it's much more covert. Don't bother trying to say "but but I can't be antisemitic because Arabs are Semitic and I don't mind them!" - the term antisemitism was coined by the Jew-hating German Wilhelm Marr in 1987~ and as such refers to Jews, not Semitic people.

I guess, according to your "logic", Palestinians aren't allowed to 'defend' themselves because the *******s have a habit of killing innocent Jews spanning from 1920 up until 2011 :rolleyes:
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Pindar
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(Original post by Chav Princess)
Every-time it retaliates against attacks on its soil, all I hear from people on TSR are words such as 'fascist', 'Zionist', 'evil', 'Jews', 'terrorist state', etc.

Granted, Israel has not always engaged in military situations appropriately, but it seems that it can't do anything without being stigmatised.
It's not "its" soil...

And how exactly is murdering innocent Palestinian children "retaliating against attacks"? :lolwut:
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PendulumBoB
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Because all of the pro-Palestine nonsense, is just contemporary Europe's version of good old fashioned medieval Jew-hating.

People don't realise that when the Jews and Arabs were offered a two-state solution the Jews accepted and the Arabs said no

When people say that the land belonged to the Arab and the Jews took over, what about Jerusalem? The Jews lived there since antiquity.

If the land were to be controlled by Arabs it would be far worse for Kuffars, just look at the treatment of Christians and Jews in the rest of the middle-east.

EDIT: If any of the three neggers wish to dispute these facts please, feel free to do so.
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frostmage
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(Original post by thisisnew)
Here's a tip for you. If you don't want to expose yourself as being an anti-Semitic moron, then try not to say things like "I had a feeling you were a Jew" or "...Defender of the Jews", trying replacing the word "Jew" with "Zionist", it's much more covert. Don't bother trying to say "but but I can't be antisemitic because Arabs are Semitic and I don't mind them!" - the term antisemitism was coined by the Jew-hating German Wilhelm Marr in 1987~ and as such refers to Jews, not Semitic people.

I guess, according to your "logic", Palestinians aren't allowed to 'defend' themselves because the *******s have a habit of killing innocent Jews spanning from 1920 up until 2011 :rolleyes:
Isn't it fun to predict their recycled nonsense? Undermines them so much, poor souls... :h:
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