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    (Original post by Joey_Johns)
    No because at my school anyway, every child has to play an instrument during prep school, its forced upon you so all the people who would give up if they cant do it straight away (which is probably the majority) cannot give it up. When I became much older I realised how much I benefited from this, because I never would have carried on if I didnt have to.

    And music is only one facility my old school offered to a high standard that my sisters school cannot. The list is endless.
    You were forced?!? At my state primary, pupils took up instruments if they wanted to - what's wrong with choice? Forcing music defies the point somewhat - that sounds like the school providing the motivation instead of the student, which is surely not a good thing to encourage. I don't think you answered my question - though apologies if you did (I don't want this to turn into another ****ging match a la Tek!).

    Ben
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    (Original post by Joey_Johns)
    You dont seem to grasp that boarding school is an experience. Some of your points are valid but a lot are flawed because you dont understand a typical boarding school week, whereas I understand a state school week, and can spot the differences.
    I dare say that everything in life is an 'experience'!

    Ben
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    (Original post by calumc)
    Surely state school is far more useful experience though, as it is a far more "realistic" one which doesn't isolate/cushion the real world to the same degree as a private education?

    While I could see it as an experience in the same way as, for example, an extra-curricular residential course, in the long-term I don't see how it could be beneficial. It seems to leave a large proportion of students with no comprehension of ordinary society and the real world, as this has been hidden from them. Furthermore, it seems they're far more likely to struggle later, as while they had an "edge" over the rest while at school, they're the same as everyone else once they go to university, and then into work.

    I do have friends who have attended both types of school, and have made many new ones during my recent university interviews, so I do have an idea of what it's like. Remember that not all schools are the same, and I firmly believe I have recieved an education equal to if not surpassing any private school.
    Look, boarding school's experience is definitely a great experience, i have been to a state school before, and my opinion is that the boarding school experience is much more memorable, and unique to say the least, and you have a greater bond with people around you. Unless you have been to both types of schools, it is not right to judge.
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    (Original post by calumc)
    Surely state school is far more useful experience though, as it is a far more "realistic" one which doesn't isolate/cushion the real world to the same degree as a private education?

    While I could see it as an experience in the same way as, for example, an extra-curricular residential course, in the long-term I don't see how it could be beneficial. It seems to leave a large proportion of students with no comprehension of ordinary society and the real world, as this has been hidden from them. Furthermore, it seems they're far more likely to struggle later, as while they had an "edge" over the rest while at school, they're the same as everyone else once they go to university, and then into work.

    I do have friends who have attended both types of school, and have made many new ones during my recent university interviews, so I do have an idea of what it's like. Remember that not all schools are the same, and I firmly believe I have recieved an education equal to if not surpassing any private school.
    You do know that you probably haven't - you've just developed better motivational skills and a 'clearer' idea of the real world or, more appropriately, the world in which you are going to end up (some people aren't ever going to see what you deem to be the 'real' world - their world and yours may be very different: to a starving child in Ethiopia, you have probably never seen the 'real' world.).

    Ben
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    (Original post by calumc)
    Yes, but relatively speaking, hence "to the same degree as a private education".
    I think my point may have been less than clear - never mind. Why should they be prepared for a world which they may not ever see? I'm not in disagreement with you - just questioning the reasoning behind what you think is 'real' (it's pretty subjective!).

    Ben
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    (Original post by Ben.S.)
    I think my point may have been less than clear - never mind. Why should they be prepared for a world which they may not ever see? I'm not in disagreement with you - just questioning the reasoning behind what you think is 'real' (it's pretty subjective!).

    Ben
    Why do you want to face the real cruel ugly..etc world in the middle of your teenage years when you can avoid these problems and face them later just as well as others?
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    Everybody has to concede it is entirely possible to go through life without ever having to cross paths with a less privelidged way of life. If you want to you can go straight from school to a top uni to a nice job in the city to your nice house back home, I can't think of one single situation where skills such as "how to not get beaten up" or "how to hold a conversation with somebody without an academic background" would be necessary.
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    (Original post by Joey_Johns)
    Tek actually has the right idea. For society to work it needs both rich and the poor. Obviously it is good that in recent years everybodys standard of living has increased, both poor and rich.
    Hmm, where did you get this from? Give me the statistics you're using. This is news to me, didn't realise that in recent years everbody's standard had increased.
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    (Original post by fishpaste)
    Everybody has to concede it is entirely possible to go through life without ever having to cross paths with a less privelidged way of life. If you want to you can go straight from school to a top uni to a nice job in the city to your nice house back home, I can't think of one single situation where skills such as "how to not get beaten up" or "how to hold a conversation with somebody without an academic background" would be necessary.
    exactly
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    (Original post by TheWolf)
    Why do you want to face the real cruel ugly..etc world in the middle of your teenage years when you can avoid these problems and face them later just as well as others?
    That wasn't quite what I meant. On a loosely related note; I find people who have been educated at public schools have an air of confidence about them (not necessarilly arrogance - although I find that to be a trait far more apparent in the 'public' populace than the 'state' people) which can get rather annoying and is totally superficial. They don't half loose their bearings when they're told that they're wrong about something! That can be quite amusing - sometimes...

    Ben
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    (Original post by fishpaste)
    Everybody has to concede it is entirely possible to go through life without ever having to cross paths with a less privelidged way of life. If you want to you can go straight from school to a top uni to a nice job in the city to your nice house back home, I can't think of one single situation where skills such as "how to not get beaten up" or "how to hold a conversation with somebody without an academic background" would be necessary.
    Thank-you.

    Ben
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    (Original post by Ben.S.)
    That wasn't quite what I meant. On a loosely related note; I find people who have been educated at public schools have an air of confidence about them (not necessarilly arrogance - although I find that to be a trait far more apparent in the 'public' populace than the 'state' people) which can get rather annoying and is totally superficial. They don't half loose their bearings when they're told that they're wrong about something! That can be quite amusing - sometimes...

    Ben
    ahh right here i agree with you
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    (Original post by Joey_Johns)
    In recent I mean in the last 30-40 years.
    lol...ok. Now, for the slightly more difficult part, where are the statistics? Now, I'm not terribly bright, so you will have to explain your interpretation to me too. Thanx!
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    (Original post by Ben.S.)
    That wasn't quite what I meant. On a loosely related note; I find people who have been educated at public schools have an air of confidence about them (not necessarilly arrogance - although I find that to be a trait far more apparent in the 'public' populace than the 'state' people) which can get rather annoying and is totally superficial. They don't half loose their bearings when they're told that they're wrong about something! That can be quite amusing - sometimes...

    Ben

    Heh. I'm always wrong about stuff. Think I must be the exception to your rule there then...
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    (Original post by MadNatSci)
    Heh. I'm always wrong about stuff. Think I must be the exception to your rule there then...
    Ah - I said 'I find' and I haven't found you yet! Don't panic - I'm not looking!

    Ben
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    (Original post by Joey_Johns)
    Erm, practically everbody in Britain has clean safe water, fresh food etc. The quality of medicine is better, the list is endless. Oh and even poor families are often seen with more than one car nowadays. You dont need statistics to prove that the standard of living in most countries is increasing. If you want to look at the demographic transition model, your welcome, it backs up exactly what I'm saying.

    When you're at university, take a few modules in economics/social policy. You're almost beginning to sound like an ignorant 6th former that believes he knows what he's talking about...
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    (Original post by J.S.)
    When you're at university, take a few modules in economics/social policy. You're almost beginning to sound like an ignorant 6th former that believes he knows what he's talking about...
    I can't see the flaw in what he's said. Perhaps you might make the effort to explain yourself a little better before letting fly with disdainful, open-ended and utterly pointless statements. People might take you more seriously if you engaged in proper discussion.

    You're trying to provoke an argument, aren't you?

    Ben
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    (Original post by Ben.S.)
    I can't see the flaw in what he's said. Perhaps you might make the effort to explain yourself a little better before letting fly with disdainful, open-ended and utterly pointless statements. People might take you more seriously if you engaged in proper discussion.

    You're trying to provoke an argument, aren't you?

    Ben

    I asked him for statistics, not vague statements. You seemed to have missed that point.
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    (Original post by J.S.)
    I asked him for statistics, not vague statements. You seemed to have missed that point.
    I wasn't aiming for any 'points' - I'm sorry if I've 'missed' one. I'm not concerned with how well your initial question was or was not answered, but with your previous brazen and indignant response. Please clarify what you mean.

    Ben
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    (Original post by Joey_Johns)
    No he hasnt. You have. Only the dumbest person would say that peoples standards of living have worstened. Just because I cant be bothered to get statistics, doesnt mean my statements are wrong.
    Ok, I’ll just give you a few comments on what I think. It would be nice if you could justify your own comments, without assuming them to be correct as "only the dumbest person would suggest standards have worstened".

    We’re looking at poverty and focusing on the bottom socio economic cohort. According to an independent definition supplied by the UN, over 5 million people in Britain live in absolute poverty-this figure rose in the period you mention. Income distribution in the UK is amongst the most concentrated of the industrial countries; only in the US is the gap between rich and poor greater. In the period you mention, this gap actually grew. Also according to UNICEF in 2000, child poverty in the UK is amongst the highest in the industrialized world, and not only is it so dire at present, over the last 20 years of ‘prosperity’ it has actually tripled. The UK fails on each of the five key indicators of poverty that the report uses: the childhood poverty rate is very high, the number of lone parent families suffering from poverty is also high, and the number of households with no wage earner is high (higher due to an increase in divorce rate) lastly, the number of people who suffer from low wages or have low benefits is also very high (although arguably better after min. wage legislation). Now, this is the make up of the bottom 10, particularly the bottom 5% of the population. It's very difficult to maintain that over the last 30/40 years these lower socio-economic groups have prospered as on these statistics their situation as worsened. If by 'recent years' you were referring post 1997 it would have been far easier to argue that the position has at least stablised.

    Also, take another look at distribution of wealth; the World Bank (hardly an egalitarian institution) looks at the distribution of GDP claimed by the bottom 20%. In the UK this figure is 4.6%, as compared with 7%, 8.2%, 8% in Germany, Netherlands and Sweden respectively. Again, the distribution was a lot narrower, but has gotten far worse in the period you’re referring to.

    There’s so much else to support this. If you take a long at long-term unemployment amongst those that are unemployed, this has risen. Also, labour turnover has vastly increased in the period you are referring to. Both of these are hidden when one is only glancing at the figure given for unemployment (on which the UK does very well, relative to its position before and through international comparisons) High labour turnover means that people are moving around at a greater rate, i.e. greater rate of short-term contracts and less stability. This is at least partially due to the massive decline in unions over, again, that same period.

    It wasn’t only union decline though, far more than that. Again, you have to ask yourself what policies are going to have the greatest effect on the bottom 10%. So, take a look at income support. This as a proportion of average income has decreased in Britain over the period you mentioned. Then you look at figures for rising divorce rate and the consquent proliferation in family breakdown. Also, a massive increase in drug abuse, again over the same period. Britain has a huge underclass, almost every independent report shows this. This underclass has increased over the period you mention.

    Also, sorry about my offensive comments earlier. However, if you’re going to claim that poverty has decreased, and I am open to such suggestions as I realize the situation is never clear cut, I’d rather you provided me with some evidence.
 
 
 
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