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Your perception of French universities

A very general question about what are people's perception of French univerisites? What ones have you heard of? Do you think they compete at an international level? ....

Reply 1

Octavius85

3

Paris

A very general question about what are people's perception of French univerisites? What ones have you heard of? Do you think they compete at an international level? ....

Sorbonne above all I guess. Science PO also. And then some others that students might know like HEC or Polytecnique. That's about it. Of course they compete at international level. Everybody has a great respect for france's grandes écoles. I would rank them third behind US and UK.

Reply 2

Paris

OP

That's about it. Of course they compete at international level.

That's exactly it! Where are the 100s of other schools all over France and why are they failing so badly at distinguishing themselves on the world stage.

Reply 3

JakeR

1

Paris

That's exactly it! Where are the 100s of other schools all over France and why are they failing so badly at distinguishing themselves on the world stage.

I tried applying to 1 French University, Reims Management School, for the 5 year program with 3 in France and 2 in China. But they told me not to bother applying because I would have no chance since I was not French.

Maybe they need to change their attitudes and make themselves more accomidative to international students. :smile:

Reply 4

Angel Interceptor

11

Paris

A very general question about what are people's perception of French univerisites? What ones have you heard of? Do you think they compete at an international level? ....

I think they have a good reputation, especially Ecole Polytechnique and Ecole Superieure. I'm sure they compete at an international level. Ecole Polytechnique particularly has/used to have some of the best mathematical minds in the world studying there however I'm not so sure precisely how good their reputation is these days. I agree with JakeR that French universities need to be more inclusive to international applicants if they want to attract the best minds from across the globe.

Reply 5

Carl

14

JakeR

I tried applying to 1 French University, Reims Management School, for the 5 year program with 3 in France and 2 in China. But they told me not to bother applying because I would have no chance since I was not French.

Maybe they need to change their attitudes and make themselves more accomidative to international students. :smile:

I completely disagree! hehehe

I'm studying at Sciences Po in Bordeaux, about a third of the students are foreign, and I'm getting my ass kicked because it's very difficult. Certainly a lot more demanding than British uni, but whether it's better :confused:

Reply 6

fundamentally

15

Paris

A very general question about what are people's perception of French univerisites? What ones have you heard of? Do you think they compete at an international level? ....

France seems to have missed the boat on quality tertiary education.

Overall, French universities seem to at about the level of the universities in Singapore, Hong Kong, China or other developing countries. Apart from the Ecole Polytechnique and the Ecole Normale Supérieure they are pretty ordinary.

alexanderw

well since people aren't familiar with them it's probably alot harder to convince the people who matter (employers etc) that they're any good

Good point.
I suspect that most of the foreign students there are from ex-French colonies, where a degree from France is still treated with respect. In the rest of the world....

Reply 7

Octavius85

3

fundamentally

I suspect that most of the foreign students there are from ex-French colonies, where a degree from France is still treated with respect. In the rest of the world....

naa, that sounds a bit like BS. France has a high quality tertiary education. It completely fails to attract international students because of the lack of attractiveness of their elite courses called "prépa". However, France is France and you can't compare it's education with inferior ones like hong kong etc etc. France has the sorbonne which is still a big reference and the second oldest university in the world. It's like bologna, Bocconi or Sapienza in Italy, Heidelberg in Germany, Salamanca or Complutense in Spain. As you ve mentionned the Polytecnique or the normale supérieure are great schools. I would add also Sciences Po who attracts far more than france's ex colonies. And their is nothing comparable in HK or china what so ever.

Reply 8

fundamentally

15

Octavius85

And their is nothing comparable in HK or china what so ever.

I disagree. Many of the Chinese, Singaporean and Hong Kong universities are ranked similarly or even higher than their French counterparts.

For example look at the Times World University Rankings:

10th Ecole Polytechnique (France's best )
15th Beijing University

22nd National University of Singapore
24th Ecole Normale Supérieure, Paris (the second best in France )

40th Hong Kong University
43rd Hong Kong University Sci & Technology
51st Chinese University of Hong Kong
62nd Tsing Hua University, China
72nd Fudan University, China
92nd Ecole Normale Supérieure, Lyon

93rd China University of Sci & Technology
133rd HEC Paris

Reply 9

Octavius85

3

fundamentally

I disagree. Many of the Chinese and Hong Kong universities are ranked higher than the French universities by the Times.

Beijing University is ranked 15th in the world while the Ecole Normale Supérieure, Paris is 24th. Hong Kong University is 40th while Ecole Normale Supérieure, Lyon is 92nd in the world.

Yeah sure, but I rather be a graduate of Complutense, Salamanca, Heidelberg, Sorbonne or Columbia even if their are ranked below than Beijing. Rankings are not all, it's also about worldwide reputation and the national education's reputation. And I know we are in the 21st century but France's education is more respected than chinese.

Reply 10

fundamentally

15

Octavius85

Yeah sure, but I rather be a graduate of Complutense, Salamanca, Heidelberg, Sorbonne or Columbia even if their are ranked below than Beijing.

The point is that most French universities are not internationally competitive. A person in Malaysia, India, Germany or China who wants to study overseas is unlikely to even consider France. The default destinations for international students are the US, Canada, UK and Australia.

In any case, Chinese and Singaporean Universities are improving rapidly as their governments sink billions into education. In ten years, China and perhaps Singapore will have universities in the top five.

Reply 11

Octavius85

3

fundamentally

The point is that most French universities are not internationally competitive. A person in Malaysia, India, Germany or China who wants to study overseas is unlikely to even consider France. The default destinations for international students are the US, Canada, UK and Australia.

In any case, Chinese and Singaporean Universities are improving rapidly as their governments sink billions into education. In ten years, China and perhaps Singapore will have universities in the top five.

I believe it takes more than 10 years to build a respectable international reputation. I agree that France is not as competitive as it should be and isn't attractive for international students. But France never negliated its education and made numerous of the world's greatest figures. In the minds of everyone, french education is above australian, canadian and asian.

Reply 12

Kryten

1

A bit late but... no, Octavius, I don't think French education is higher than Canadian one for example.

This well known that french higher education level is not so great, globally speaking.

Reply 13

Octavius85

3

Kryten

A bit late but... no, Octavius, I don't think French education is higher than Canadian one for example.

This well known that french higher education level is not so great, globally speaking.

canadian may have a very good education quality but no one cares really. The thing is, reputation wise, france is better than all second hand american education systems: that includes canada, australia and others. Canadian universities aren't notorious compared to great french universities, that's the way I see it. Of course, canadian universities may have better academic education overall but no school there is as attractive as the french greatest schools. So yes, I think america holds the best education system (best universities, with best interna reputation), then comes the UK and then France and finally all the rest (german, aussie, canadian...).

Reply 14

Kryten

1

Well, I dunno if there are any other institutes of faculties as known as la Sorbonne in english speaking countries or other ones.

As said above, even if French higher education system is not the worst, it has a lack of visibility.

Reply 15

apple tree

I heard of Ecole Polytechnique from a program about evariste galois. I seem to remember he got rejected a couple of times and never got to study there :frown:

, that's what I remember anyway, may not be entirely correct.

Reply 16

Kryten

1

Yeah, the École Polytechnique (oftenly called "X") is one of the best schools for hard sciences.

Reply 17

Bloud

Kryten

Yeah, the École Polytechnique (oftenly called "X") is one of the best schools for hard sciences.

It's not really a school to study hard sciences. It is most for engineering. However it is clear that it is a great place to study hard sciences. But the Ecole Normale Supérieure is the best. Yet it is not really significant. A genius is a genius at Polytecnique or ENS but he is still a genius even if he studies in a bad university. For example, I don't think that Henri Poincaré really needed his professors when he was young. Even if he studied at Ecole Polytechnique, I really think he would become the genius he was even if he had studied in an unknown university. A university doesn't make the student ; great students make a university (if Oxbridge accepted any student; would it have this reputation ? I don't think so...).

Reply 18

Kryten

1

Bloud

It's not really a school to study hard sciences. It is most for engineering.

I disagree.

Polytechnique, less than ENS however, is known to provide a general education : when you're good everywhere, go to Polytechnique, when you're just very good in one domain, go to ENS :biggrin:

Furthermore, when finishing your studies @ X you have to enter an École d'application (possible translation : professionalisation school), because you didn't learn concrete knowhow.

I'd say that actual engineering oriented studies are - for example - the courses from ENSAM - Arts & Métiers or École Centrale as I see you're from Nantes :wink:

About the genius matter, indeed, the uni doesn't make you become an "Einstein-bis" but it helps to reveal a talent and this is were uni's are not equal.
Smaller classes, plenty of (modern) material, partnerships with famous research institutes, etc. are unfortunately not given to every school/uni.

Reply 19

Bloud

Kryten

I disagree.

Polytechnique, less than ENS however, is known to provide a general education : when you're good everywhere, go to Polytechnique, when you're just very good in one domain, go to ENS :biggrin:

Kryten

Furthermore, when finishing your studies @ X you have to enter an École d'application (possible translation : professionalisation school), because you didn't learn concrete knowhow.

I'd say that actual engineering oriented studies are - for example - the courses from ENSAM - Arts & Métiers or École Centrale as I see you're from Nantes :wink:

Maybe, but most of people who have studied at Polytechnique don't make hard sciences anymore in their job (they are at the head of engineers teem for most of them). So I really think that if you want to become a great scientist or mathematician it's better to go to ENS (in France of course!)

Kryten

About the genius matter, indeed, the uni doesn't make you become an "Einstein-bis" but it helps to reveal a talent and this is were uni's are not equal.
Smaller classes, plenty of (modern) material, partnerships with famous research institutes, etc. are unfortunately not given to every school/uni.

I quite agree.

Your perception of French universities

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