Music offers/rejections

I don't actually know where mine is lol!

At home somewhere... :rolleyes:

Reply 24

so i'm guessing none of you went for RAM?
uber elite
music as a whole is about creativity. but music as a professional career (in like top orchestras, soloists, etc) keep eliteness for keeping their standards. if they are the best, they will only take the best, and the best will want to work with them (as will everyone else). they are paying them after all

Reply 25

I did not apply to any music colleges. I didn't want to, I've heard about them and it is not the atmosphere I would want to study in.

Reply 26

q1w2e3r4t5y

What is it like in a music college?

Reply 27

Pink*Guildhall

pianist

What is it like in a music college?

i've been at one of the junior departments of one of the colleges in london for five years. everything takes place on a saturday, so i have normal school for the rest of the week.
even at the junior level the atmosphere is incredibly competitive, moreso in some colleges than others, and particularly amongst and between certain instruments.
everyone is striving to be the best, to get into this chamber group becuase they have a better tutor, to get into the symphony orchestra, to be promoted from that desk to this desk, to win the competitions, to be known by everyone else there that you are the best, to get to play a solo in this concert, to be given the opportunity to do a masterclass with so-and-so.
i would imagine from what i have heard from friends at the various colleges that it is fairly similar there.
people boast about how much practise they do a day, and as far as i know, there is little academic work.

i think that the atmosphere particularly suits those who know exactly where they want to go and what they want to do. of course, the atmosphere in the colleges varies, each is known to have a slightly different atmosphere and overall focus.

personally, after 5 years in a junior college, i don't think at the moment that i could quite cope with another 3 or 4 years there. in addition, i want an academic degree rather than a performance degree, much as i love performance. i know that if i want to, i can always apply to do a one-year post-grad at a conservatoire after my uni degree. i also want to have the opportunities to meet those outside of the music world, something which is rather difficult in a place where everyone studies music!

i don't mean to sound completely negative about colleges at all. they're wonderful places, full of amazing opportunities, the likes some of which are hard to find at a uni. but i have made the choice that for myself, it is not where i want to study for my first degree.

Reply 28

q1w2e3r4t5y

Pink*Guildhall

i've been at one of the junior departments of one of the colleges in london for five years. everything takes place on a saturday, so i have normal school for the rest of the week.
even at the junior level the atmosphere is incredibly competitive, moreso in some colleges than others, and particularly amongst and between certain instruments.
everyone is striving to be the best, to get into this chamber group becuase they have a better tutor, to get into the symphony orchestra, to be promoted from that desk to this desk, to win the competitions, to be known by everyone else there that you are the best, to get to play a solo in this concert, to be given the opportunity to do a masterclass with so-and-so.
i would imagine from what i have heard from friends at the various colleges that it is fairly similar there.
people boast about how much practise they do a day, and as far as i know, there is little academic work.

i think that the atmosphere particularly suits those who know exactly where they want to go and what they want to do. of course, the atmosphere in the colleges varies, each is known to have a slightly different atmosphere and overall focus.

personally, after 5 years in a junior college, i don't think at the moment that i could quite cope with another 3 or 4 years there. in addition, i want an academic degree rather than a performance degree, much as i love performance. i know that if i want to, i can always apply to do a one-year post-grad at a conservatoire after my uni degree. i also want to have the opportunities to meet those outside of the music world, something which is rather difficult in a place where everyone studies music!

i don't mean to sound completely negative about colleges at all. they're wonderful places, full of amazing opportunities, the likes some of which are hard to find at a uni. but i have made the choice that for myself, it is not where i want to study for my first degree.

Interesting, I might consider going to one after I've studied a degree in uni.

Thanks!

Reply 29

DrAtomic

I'm in the Pre-College at Juilliard in New York and I've been studying there for the past 3 years. I agree with Pink on the whole about conservatories. Even at the pre-college level, they are very competitive and (in my opinion) don't promote an atomosphere in which creativity fostered. At Juilliard, you are tested in everything. You're tested in all the classes you take and get a report card after each term (there are mid-terms and final exams and everything; just like regular school). At the end of the year, everyone has to play juries. Juries are a bit scary but not too bad once you're used to playing them. All they entail are you playing for the professors in your department and them giving you a grade which you get in the mail about a week later. At Juilliard everyone takes certain classes (theory, solfege, private lessons, etc), but the real focus, I think, is on the orchestras. The orchestras for us go by age. The youngest group has kids ages 7-13, the middle group has kids ages 13-15 and the oldest group has kids ages 15-18. I'm in the top one now. The groups are very, very good and I enjoy playing in them very much. Peolpe are quite competitive about their seating even though the conductors and everyone try to talk people out of being competitive. There's also a very good choir to sing in which is good fun... it takes a good audition to get into Juilliard (even for Pre-College) and you've got to want to make yourself the best you can be. I get the impression that at the college level it's much more competitive than it is in the Pre-College level (a bit scary to think of) and that people don't much care about the well-being of others. They just care about being the best musicians they can. I suppose there's some value in that, but frankly, there's enough harshness in this world already - why add to it? I think that there's a way to not be so competitive and still become a good musician, but people at these conservatories don't seem to have found it or they don't want to run that way. At least that's the impression I get of Juilliard whether it's entirely accurate or not. :rolleyes:

Reply 30

Exactly. Far too much of that competitivness for my liking. It should be about enjoying playing and making music with others, not grr I need to be better than you blah blah..

Reply 31

Pink*Guildhall

KSPaige

I'm in the Pre-College at Juilliard in New York and I've been studying there for the past 3 years. I agree with Pink on the whole about conservatories. Even at the pre-college level, they are very competitive and (in my opinion) don't promote an atomosphere in which creativity fostered. At Juilliard, you are tested in everything. You're tested in all the classes you take and get a report card after each term (there are mid-terms and final exams and everything; just like regular school). At the end of the year, everyone has to play juries. Juries are a bit scary but not too bad once you're used to playing them. All they entail are you playing for the professors in your department and them giving you a grade which you get in the mail about a week later. At Juilliard everyone takes certain classes (theory, solfege, private lessons, etc), but the real focus, I think, is on the orchestras. The orchestras for us go by age. The youngest group has kids ages 7-13, the middle group has kids ages 13-15 and the oldest group has kids ages 15-18. I'm in the top one now. The groups are very, very good and I enjoy playing in them very much. Peolpe are quite competitive about their seating even though the conductors and everyone try to talk people out of being competitive. There's also a very good choir to sing in which is good fun... it takes a good audition to get into Juilliard (even for Pre-College) and you've got to want to make yourself the best you can be. I get the impression that at the college level it's much more competitive than it is in the Pre-College level (a bit scary to think of) and that people don't much care about the well-being of others. They just care about being the best musicians they can. I suppose there's some value in that, but frankly, there's enough harshness in this world already - why add to it? I think that there's a way to not be so competitive and still become a good musician, but people at these conservatories don't seem to have found it or they don't want to run that way. At least that's the impression I get of Juilliard whether it's entirely accurate or not. :rolleyes:

it sounds fairly similar, except that we don't have anywhere near the amount of tests that you have! to get into the last two years, you have to pass the higher certificate of music, and once each year, you must do an assessed performance. i was had the flu when i did mine one year, and they just said that i shouldnt have come in, and asked if i wanted to do it again.

Reply 32

i dunno, if i was gonna study music i would rather do it at a consevatoire/music college, as your teachers will be the people you'll be working with in a few years so are really quite amazing (the ones i've sat in lessons with anyway. or it could be that the pupils make them look good!). yeah it's competitive. but i guess so is the industry. fair enough if you want to go into teaching or something related to music, but if you want to work in orchestras and recording you've probably got to get used to the eliteness and musical snobbery!! (eurgh) personally (and im like this about everything!!!) going to a uni would make me wonder where i'd end up (everyone plays the flute... that's my problem)
i visited RSAMD last year, and it's what put me off music college. just the general attitude i got from the tutor. I personally couldn't cope with 4 years of that
(also at the RAM open day they were telling us if you're late 3 times, regardless of excuse (including if an old lady collapsed in front of you... unless you could get PROOF it happened), you would be expelled. and late once or twice you were moved down the list of ensemble options, to get you "used" to working in strict timed atmosphere. amazingly i was talking to a family friend who plays in an orchestra with this guy... apparently he's never been on time in his life

Reply 33

You don't just get amazing teachers if you are at a music college. I am at a normal university, but have a teacher who teaches at the Royal Northern, many of my friends have teachers who are principald of their sections in well known orchestras, others have teachers who have previously worked at conservatoires etc.

Just because someone goes to a uni doesn't mean you are totally screwed over performance options. My piano teacher is in his 3rd year at my uni and I would be very surprised if he didnt' make some sort of living out of performing, he is bloody amazing.

Reply 34

fair enough. i wasn't having a go. i was just stating my personal view on the matter. i didn't say that uni goers were totally screwed. i know some amazing musicians who go to unis rather than music colleges. but they don't play far-too-over-populated-and-few-jobs-avaliable instruments, or they want to teach. i know people who are groomed to do music at uni, and people who are groomed to do it at music college. it really depends on the kind of person you are and the instruments you play and stuff, and then also what your own music teacher thinks.

Reply 35

fatboy06

Uni - gives you a degree which can be transferred to other stuff...
Conservatoire - gives you an atmosphere in which you will either crack up or turn out as a bloody good musician...

What's the instrumental teaching like at unis in general? Specifically at Oxford, Manchester (how many people learn at the RNCM?), Nottingham and Birmingham (how good is the Conservatoire?)

Reply 36

i know someone who went crazy at royal northern. they spend every day telling you how bad you are (from what ive heard)

Reply 37

Yet, I know many people at the Royal Northern and who went there and loved it. You do get assessed very frequently, but I would expect that at any music college. My teacher teaches at the Royal Northern and is very very good. :smile:

Reply 38

haha i swear you have to say the opposite of everything i do, and phrased as if to show me up

i was speaking in response to this "Conservatoire - gives you an atmosphere in which you will either crack up or turn out as a bloody good musician..."

i know it is a teaching technique held by some to tell you you are not good enough, that way making you work harder. however with many people this is a knock to their self esteem and does not work, and constant negative critisism drives them out.

Reply 39

Pink*Guildhall