Muslims: tell me why you want Sharia Law in the UK

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teadrinker
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#1
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I watched this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcHTI...eature=related

The patronising Muslim gentleman in the cardigan explains that he is 100% behind implementing Sharia Law in the UK. He then says that such laws would not affect non-Muslims, and disagrees that it would create a two-tier system of law in the UK.

I then realised that I didn't know much about Sharia Law myself, other than vague impressions of women being kept in bondage, honour killings in Iran and north Lancashire, and a few heads and hands being lopped off here and there. Therefore, I undertook a little bit of research and found out the following:

1.) Sharia Law has not been codified so is open to interpretation. This means that unlike in UK common law, Sharia courts in different parts of the country will judge cases quite differently (differences are even more pronounced when comparing British Sharia courts with those in Islamic countries).

2.) Some Sharia courts, even in this country, will follow strict interpretations of Sharia and rule that:

-The testament of a woman is worth half that of a male.
-That a man can unilaterally divorce his wife, but that a woman must secure the consent of the husband, or provide difficult proofs of his wrongdoing.
- Daughters are awarded only half the inheritance awarded to sons.
-And that custody of the children is always given to the father.

3.) In the UK some Muslim women are 'married' only in a mosque (and islamic marriage called a 'nikah') and do not go through the usual legal process of having their marriage recognised by UK law. This leaves many such women (often foreign born women with a limited grasp of the English language, and the rights they are entitled to in this country) in a much weaker legal position with regards to property and the custody of their children.

--------

So today, I have gone from being staunchly opposed to Sharia Law in the UK (but not REALLY understanding the issue), to a position that softened slightly, and now back to my original position with a little bit more of an understanding of the issue.

What I want to ask Muslims is:

Why do you feel you need a parallel system of law?
Do you appreciate why the non-Muslim population are uneasy about the introduction of such a legal system?
Can you give me any more information on Sharia that you feel I should know, and would you agree with the characterisation of Sharia Law in this post, and in the three articles below?

--------------

Here are some, but not all, of the articles I read earlier today:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7234870.stm
http://www.guardian.co.uk/law/2010/j...ligious-courts
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...to-itself.html
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Agenda Suicide
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inb4 ****storm.
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564767
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LOL the EDL leader was confused as.
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Agenda Suicide
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As what?
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teadrinker
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Yeah he was. Although I think he made a couple of legitimate points, he does not have the intelligence to stand up for them even against rather pedestrian opposition.

The whole piece is poor though, and I got nothing from it - other than the kick up the arse to find out more. I thought the Muslim did not come across at all well either - slightly smarmy and terribly patronising.
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pr0view
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(Original post by Agenda Suicide)
As what?
Albert Einstein on physics.
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OdinsThunder
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Most sane people don't won't Islam in the UK, let alone its inbuilt legal system having any sort of power.
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OdinsThunder
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Allah does not exist, so therefore it is absolutely absurd that a religion built on a foundation of fairytales should have its own legal system.
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DontJudge
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You've done your homework.
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MonkeyMan2009
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(Original post by teadrinker)
I watched this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcHTI...eature=related

The patronising Muslim gentleman in the cardigan explains that he is 100% behind implementing Sharia Law in the UK. He then says that such laws would not affect non-Muslims, and disagrees that it would create a two-tier system of law in the UK.

I then realised that I didn't know much about Sharia Law myself, other than vague impressions of women being kept in bondage, honour killings in Iran and north Lancashire, and a few heads and hands being lopped off here and there. Therefore, I undertook a little bit of research and found out the following:

1.) Sharia Law has not been codified so is open to interpretation. This means that unlike in UK common law, Sharia courts in different parts of the country will judge cases quite differently (differences are even more pronounced when comparing British Sharia courts with those in Islamic countries).

2.) Some Sharia courts, even in this country, will follow strict interpretations of Sharia and rule that:

-The testament of a woman is worth half that of a male.
-That a man can unilaterally divorce his wife, but that a woman must secure the consent of the husband, or provide difficult proofs of his wrongdoing.
- Daughters are awarded only half the inheritance awarded to sons.
-And that custody of the children is always given to the father.

3.) In the UK some Muslim women are 'married' only in a mosque (and islamic marriage called a 'nikah') and do not go through the usual legal process of having their marriage recognised by UK law. This leaves many such women (often foreign born women with a limited grasp of the English language, and the rights they are entitled to in this country) in a much weaker legal position with regards to property and the custody of their children.

--------

So today, I have gone from being staunchly opposed to Sharia Law in the UK (but not REALLY understanding the issue), to a position that softened slightly, and now back to my original position with a little bit more of an understanding of the issue.

What I want to ask Muslims is:

Why do you feel you need a parallel system of law?
Do you appreciate why the non-Muslim population are uneasy about the introduction of such a legal system?
Can you give me any more information on Sharia that you feel I should know, and would you agree with the characterisation of Sharia Law in this post, and in the three articles below?

--------------

Here are some, but not all, of the articles I read earlier today:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7234870.stm
http://www.guardian.co.uk/law/2010/j...ligious-courts
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...to-itself.html
as long as the sharia laws don't affect criminal cases, I don't mind.... if they want their civil disputes sovled in a sharia court, let em.
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MonkeyMan2009
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(Original post by OdinsThunder)
Most sane people don't won't Islam in the UK, let alone its inbuilt legal system having any sort of power.
I doesn't matter if x amount of people don't want islam in britain. It is the religion of many british folk and its just something which the "opponents" will have to live with (as they can't impose "sanctions" on the spread of the religion and practices) becaues of various laws which were bought in to deal with "equality issues" (some argue this was the point when britain was on teh path of changing from the "glory years" (the days which certain white far-right nationlists pine for)
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teadrinker
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(Original post by MonkeyMan2009)
as long as the sharia laws don't affect criminal cases, I don't mind.... if they want their civil disputes sovled in a sharia court, let em.
It's a fair attitude, i suppose.

But on the other hand, when such courts are ruling that deserving mothers do not have custody rights of their children, when women are being denied divorces whilst in abusive marriages, when women are being awarded half the inheritance that their brothers get, and when their testimony is worth half that of a man (all civil cases) - should we tolerate such practices in our country which has for centuries prided itself on equality under the law?

I Wouldn't be so quick to surrender such a legacy.
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MonkeyMan2009
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the white guy comes across as a ******.... he should have read up around the topic...
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MonkeyMan2009
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(Original post by teadrinker)
It's a fair attitude, i suppose.

But on the other hand, when such courts are ruling that deserving mothers do not have custody rights of their children, when women are being denied divorces whilst in abusive marriages, when women are being awarded half the inheritance that their brothers get, and when their testimony is worth half that of a man (all civil cases) - should we tolerate such practices in our country which has for centuries prided itself on equality under the law?

I Wouldn't be so quick to surrender such a legacy.
Its not about surrendering a legacy, Its about british folk deciding on how they want to live their lives and using the democratic process to achieve those aims. Those on both sides of the argument should be doing this.

at the end of the day, if muslims want to settle thier civil disputes in an "islamic court", then its up to them. Its not down to john smith to tell them how to deal with their personal matters.

I don't mind sharia courts, as long as it doesn't affect our criminal cases/laws....

If a british muslim feels she hasn't got her right share of inheritance etc, it is up to her to take it to the british legal courts (don't know what good that will do)...
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MonkeyMan2009
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(Original post by teadrinker)
It's a fair attitude, i suppose.

But on the other hand, when such courts are ruling that deserving mothers do not have custody rights of their children, when women are being denied divorces whilst in abusive marriages, when women are being awarded half the inheritance that their brothers get, and when their testimony is worth half that of a man (all civil cases) - should we tolerate such practices in our country which has for centuries prided itself on equality under the law?

I Wouldn't be so quick to surrender such a legacy.
for centuries? Really!
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teadrinker
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(Original post by MonkeyMan2009)
Its not about surrendering a legacy, Its about british folk deciding on how they want to live their lives and using the democratic process to achieve those aims. Pn both sides of the argument, people should be doing this.

at the end of the day, if muslims want to settle thier civil disputes in an "islamic court", then its up to them. Its not down to john smith to tell them how to deal with their personal matters.

I don't mind sharia courts, as long as it doesn't affect our criminal cases/laws....

If a british muslim feels she hasn't got her right share of inheritance etc, it is up to her to take it to the british legal courts (don't know what good that will do)...
I don't think you appreciate how many people feel about the law - and the deep respect many hold for the tradition of one law for all.

Also, you fail to take into account the pressures Muslim women must bear in such situations. Which court they use is often a decision made by the male head of family or community. If a Muslim woman demands that her marriage be conducted through the British legal system, of that her father's will be looked into by a standard British Civil court, she may find herself ostracised, shunned, abused, or worse.
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CityOfMyHeart
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(Original post by OdinsThunder)
Brown people are not British.
Brown people can be British if they're born here.
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MonkeyMan2009
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(Original post by teadrinker)
I watched this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcHTI...eature=related

The patronising Muslim gentleman in the cardigan explains that he is 100% behind implementing Sharia Law in the UK. He then says that such laws would not affect non-Muslims, and disagrees that it would create a two-tier system of law in the UK.

I then realised that I didn't know much about Sharia Law myself, other than vague impressions of women being kept in bondage, honour killings in Iran and north Lancashire, and a few heads and hands being lopped off here and there. Therefore, I undertook a little bit of research and found out the following:

1.) Sharia Law has not been codified so is open to interpretation. This means that unlike in UK common law, Sharia courts in different parts of the country will judge cases quite differently (differences are even more pronounced when comparing British Sharia courts with those in Islamic countries).

2.) Some Sharia courts, even in this country, will follow strict interpretations of Sharia and rule that:

-The testament of a woman is worth half that of a male.
-That a man can unilaterally divorce his wife, but that a woman must secure the consent of the husband, or provide difficult proofs of his wrongdoing.
- Daughters are awarded only half the inheritance awarded to sons.
-And that custody of the children is always given to the father.

3.) In the UK some Muslim women are 'married' only in a mosque (and islamic marriage called a 'nikah') and do not go through the usual legal process of having their marriage recognised by UK law. This leaves many such women (often foreign born women with a limited grasp of the English language, and the rights they are entitled to in this country) in a much weaker legal position with regards to property and the custody of their children.

--------

So today, I have gone from being staunchly opposed to Sharia Law in the UK (but not REALLY understanding the issue), to a position that softened slightly, and now back to my original position with a little bit more of an understanding of the issue.

What I want to ask Muslims is:

Why do you feel you need a parallel system of law?
Do you appreciate why the non-Muslim population are uneasy about the introduction of such a legal system?
Can you give me any more information on Sharia that you feel I should know, and would you agree with the characterisation of Sharia Law in this post, and in the three articles below?

--------------

Here are some, but not all, of the articles I read earlier today:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7234870.stm
http://www.guardian.co.uk/law/2010/j...ligious-courts
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...to-itself.html
do they need to be married under british law to be "safer" in protecting their rights to theri children/property?

What happens to white non-muslim women who aren't married to their partner but have kids and property. Are they safer?
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MonkeyMan2009
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(Original post by CityOfMyHeart)
Brown people can be British if they're born here.
they don't even have to be born here. The numpty gov was forking out millions for their "citizenship test" to give "britishness" as a certificate.

funny thing was that indigenous brits couldn't even pass the test when asked the questions!
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Stanley90
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(Original post by teadrinker)
But on the other hand, when such courts are ruling that deserving mothers do not have custody rights of their children, when women are being denied divorces whilst in abusive marriages, when women are being awarded half the inheritance that their brothers get
You saying this stuff doesn't ever happen under our current legal system?
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