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    (Original post by byakugan_neji)
    Adoption is always an alternative to abortion. Incidences where I would find abortion acceptable would be where the woman is feeling incredible physical pain and could never go through with it. With rape-victims, as much as I hate rape (even more than murder & all rapists should be executed), I think they should be provided with counselling for example so that they can get through it and then at the end, give the baby up for adoption to some unfortunate couple who can't have children.

    Anyways, I don't know much the issues surrounding abortion so I should just shut up now.
    Yes you should shut up. What is a woman to you? A piece of meat?

    Imagine you being "caught short" while walking around a "not so nice" part of London. You use a public toilet and while you are doing so you get set upon, have your pants pulled down and get raped at knifepoint.

    Any idea how this might affect you?

    If this happened to you you'd probably be in counselling for the rest of your life, be on a lifetime of medication to help your anxiety, and suffer sleepless nights forever. You may in fact find it so traumatizing that you yourself might no longer able to interact socially, form relationships etc. And that's the best you could hope for. You might even take your own life. Rape is actually quite a big deal you know.

    And what do you say? "I think they should be provided with counselling for example so that they can get through it and then at the end, give the baby up for adoption"

    In other words "you'll get over it girl......after all you have a wonderful life inside you........"

    I find your utter disregard for women disgusting.
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    In my opinion, abortion is wrong no matter what the situation, I think that once a child has been conceived, regardless of the circumstances, it should still be given the chance of life. This belief does not stem from my religion or anything, it is just how I feel... why destroy a life when in the future you could enjoy watching it grow?
    However, I agree that if a girl/woman has been raped, and they could not bear the thought of raising their rapist's baby, then it should be given up for adoption.
    Obviously I am making these judgements without ever having been in the situation myself... so I cannot imagine how I would feel or what I would do if I fell pregnant right now. I would like to think that I would never consider abortion... unless I eventually ran out of other options.

    xxx
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    (Original post by snowball)
    In my opinion, abortion is wrong no matter what the situation, I think that once a child has been conceived, regardless of the circumstances, it should still be given the chance of life. This belief does not stem from my religion or anything, it is just how I feel... why destroy a life when in the future you could enjoy watching it grow?
    However, I agree that if a girl/woman has been raped, and they could not bear the thought of raising their rapist's baby, then it should be given up for adoption.
    Obviously I am making these judgements without ever having been in the situation myself... so I cannot imagine how I would feel or what I would do if I fell pregnant right now. I would like to think that I would never consider abortion... unless I eventually ran out of other options.

    xxx
    If a woman has been raped and is going to give the baby up for adoption, she still has to carry it around for nine months, while it stretches her stomach, makes her puke and gives her terrible backache.

    She then has to give birth to it which, in case you haven't heard, is very painful.

    Why should she have to go through this? Obviously it's not the baby's fault and it shouldn't be punished for what the rapist did, but neither should the mother. If the pregnancy is terminated early enough, it's the only solution to a very complicated problem.
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    Why should she have to go through this? Obviously it's not the baby's fault and it shouldn't be punished for what the rapist did, but neither should the mother. If the pregnancy is terminated early enough, it's the only solution to a very complicated problem.
    But abortion for rape is illegal in this country!!! We've managed fine until now.

    With abortion you can't turn the clock back. If looking after the baby doesn't work out then you can give the baby up for adoption. Not opting for an abortion is therefore the least traumatic of situations.

    Why should the baby be killed for the father's crime?

    Paddy
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    (Original post by happypad)
    But abortion for rape is illegal in this country!!! We've managed fine until now.


    Paddy
    how do u mean?
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    ...and how often has this thread come up?
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    my mate is currently going through a sticky situation because she doesn't know what she wants or what she wants to do about it any more she has all the support she needs from all her friens but she hasn't told her amily about it yet she has only told the peple that she needs to! I will be here for her in any of her decisions because she is still a human and even if she goes through with it she is actually living and many poeple know her!!
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    (Original post by happypad)
    But abortion for rape is illegal in this country!!! We've managed fine until now.
    Which country?

    Abortion for any circumstance is perfectly legal in Britain, as long as it is carried out early enough in the pregnancy to avoid inhumane treatment and causing pain to the foetus.
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    (Original post by Howard)
    Yes you should shut up. What is a woman to you? A piece of meat?

    Imagine you being "caught short" while walking around a "not so nice" part of London. You use a public toilet and while you are doing so you get set upon, have your pants pulled down and get raped at knifepoint.

    Any idea how this might affect you?

    If this happened to you you'd probably be in counselling for the rest of your life, be on a lifetime of medication to help your anxiety, and suffer sleepless nights forever. You may in fact find it so traumatizing that you yourself might no longer able to interact socially, form relationships etc. And that's the best you could hope for. You might even take your own life. Rape is actually quite a big deal you know.

    And what do you say? "I think they should be provided with counselling for example so that they can get through it and then at the end, give the baby up for adoption"

    In other words "you'll get over it girl......after all you have a wonderful life inside you........"

    I find your utter disregard for women disgusting.
    For God's sake: Calm Down. If you can't enter a debate with a degree of rationality, then you shouldn't - at all.
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    (Original post by Gina17)
    my mate is currently going through a sticky situation because she doesn't know what she wants or what she wants to do about it any more she has all the support she needs from all her friens but she hasn't told her amily about it yet she has only told the peple that she needs to! I will be here for her in any of her decisions because she is still a human and even if she goes through with it she is actually living and many poeple know her!!
    I find it ironic that a teenager who has a pregnant friend at such a young age, is unable to use any sort of half reasonable punctuation...
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    (Original post by Bigcnee)
    For God's sake: Calm Down. If you can't enter a debate with a degree of rationality, then you shouldn't - at all.
    True, and most likely when you tell people that they are eidently wrong, they usually start moaning and screaming and you get a barrell of rep - and then you're the bad guy when you fight back..... :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by Bigcnee)
    For God's sake: Calm Down. If you can't enter a debate with a degree of rationality, then you shouldn't - at all.
    Granted, I might have chosen my words more carefully but the point I made was no less rational as anybody else's contribution. I guess you'll either have to get used to my bluntness or just breeze past until you find someone who's style of debate is more to your liking won't you?
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    (Original post by happypad)

    Why should the baby be killed for the father's crime?

    Paddy

    Why should a women suffer for a rapist's crimes? Forcing someone to have a baby against their will would do exactly that. Adoption is not an answer - even if you do not want the baby, giving up a child at birth is an immense emotional wench, and something which could haunt you for the rest of your life. Also, if you were to to have a child whose life expectance is short and will be unhappy, is this worth inflicting on them?

    Also - this sort of links in, do you agree with with the scientists who have created and then killed embryo clones in the US?
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    my mate is currently going through a sticky situation because she doesn't know what she wants or what she wants to do about it any more she has all the support she needs from all her friens but she hasn't told her amily about it yet she has only told the peple that she needs to! I will be here for her in any of her decisions because she is still a human and even if she goes through with it she is actually living and many poeple know her!!
    It might be advisable for her to speak to someone experienced. This organisation is fairly decent: http://www.careconfidential.com

    It's important she tells her family before making her decision as their advice may affect her decision (i.e. if she tells them after then she may realise she made the wrong choice).

    Why should a women suffer for a rapist's crimes? Forcing someone to have a baby against their will would do exactly that. Adoption is not an answer - even if you do not want the baby, giving up a child at birth is an immense emotional wench, and something which could haunt you for the rest of your life. Also, if you were to to have a child whose life expectance is short and will be unhappy, is this worth inflicting on them?

    Also - this sort of links in, do you agree with with the scientists who have created and then killed embryo clones in the US?
    Firstly, a woman has to suffer from a rapist's crime because rape is horrible. There's nothing nice about rape, it's therefore inevitable that the woman will suffer. Having an abortion doesn't undo the rape; it creates another victim.

    I agree that adoption is not an answer. Most women don't want to give up their baby. However, it remains an option for those who do want to give their baby up.

    Regarding the short-lived child, a short-lived life is preferable to no life at all. Furthermore how do you know the child will be unhappy before its even born?

    I don't agree with the scientists who have created and killed embryo clones for various reasons.

    Paddy
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    Furthermore how do you know the child will be unhappy before its even born?
    Well I don't mean something like Down's Syndrome - but some diseases and disabilities must by definition completely decrease a childs quality of life?
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    before 20 weeks a baby is simply a 'bundle of cells with potential' these cells have the potential to become anything. as the baby develops they change to become blood cells, nerve cells, muscle cells, etc. for this reason abortion is deemed ok before 20 weeks. after the 20 week mark the cells split and 'have the potential to become a baby'.

    however, it is legal to have an abortion up to 22 weeks... why??? some children born at 22 weeks have survived and lived happy, though short lives, with much help and medication. mayb if the legal time you can wait to have an abortion was reduced to 20 weeks less people would be against it.

    xxx
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    Well I don't mean something like Down's Syndrome - but some diseases and disabilities must by definition completely decrease a childs quality of life?
    It depends. Since the child knows no other 'quality of life' then they will have the same best quality of life as the best quality of life we have experienced.

    I don't think we should be making moral judgements about people's lives before they've lived them!

    before 20 weeks a baby is simply a 'bundle of cells with potential' these cells have the potential to become anything
    Serious mistake! Look at http://www.prolife.org.uk/abortionThumbnails.htm and then try repeating what you just said.

    however, it is legal to have an abortion up to 22 weeks... why???
    Don't you read what I post!!! It's legal up to birth and up to 24 weeks for "normal" babies.

    Why is a short life preferable to know life? A new born baby has formed no consciousness. How is a new born baby different to an embryo or foetus, is it just because you can see it and hear it cry?
    Because life is generally good. It's enjoyable. Even those starving in Africa have some enjoyable moments.

    Consciousness is not switched on. A new born baby does have some degree of consciousness as with a fetus. It's no different to an embryo/fetus in the sense that they're both human beings. Just their ability to do things increases with age.

    Paddy
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    (Original post by Howard)
    Yes you should shut up. What is a woman to you? A piece of meat?

    Imagine you being "caught short" while walking around a "not so nice" part of London. You use a public toilet and while you are doing so you get set upon, have your pants pulled down and get raped at knifepoint.

    Any idea how this might affect you?

    If this happened to you you'd probably be in counselling for the rest of your life, be on a lifetime of medication to help your anxiety, and suffer sleepless nights forever. You may in fact find it so traumatizing that you yourself might no longer able to interact socially, form relationships etc. And that's the best you could hope for. You might even take your own life. Rape is actually quite a big deal you know.

    And what do you say? "I think they should be provided with counselling for example so that they can get through it and then at the end, give the baby up for adoption"

    In other words "you'll get over it girl......after all you have a wonderful life inside you........"

    I find your utter disregard for women disgusting.
    I thought that I was entitled to my opinion? Abortion is something of a moral dilemma and there is no right answer. And I'm not perfect either.....

    Anyways, since I seem to have offended you a lot, I apologise for my comments on this thread and will watch what I say from now on.
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    (Original post by byakugan_neji)
    I thought that I was entitled to my opinion? Abortion is something of a moral dilemma and there is no right answer.

    Anyways, since I seem to have offended you a lot, I apologise for my comments on this thread and will watch what I say from now on.
    What you said was very true, and a reflection of a common opinion.

    You should not feel bad about it because Howard is having a touchy day.
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    It should be a personal choice as it is although the father's opinion should also be considered as he can be forced to support the baby even if he did not want it.
 
 
 
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