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blissy
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#61
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#61
(Original post by JSM)
actually i have read of childbirth being hte ultimate orgasm that a woman can have
Well that's not what I've heard from every single woman I've met who has given birth. More like - the most intense agony I've ever experienced, for 48 sustained hours.
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*dave*
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#62
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#62
(Original post by Amazing)
Is a life support machine a physical part of a person?


Oh, and take the parents away from a 1 year old child and that'll die pretty soon too. So unless you approve of infanticide, I don't think you can say that giving somebody the necessary requirements to live makes them a part of that person.
The amin reason that abortion is legalised is because it stops women going to backstreet clinics (abortions would still be in demand even if it was illegal) ..

Surely you agree with this :

If we make abortion illegal, women will still go to these clinics. The NHS is then left to repair the damage.
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GH
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#63
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#63
(Original post by corey)
Yes it is unfortunate that someone may get pregnant from Rape, which is a digusting crime. But, the baby is still growing just like any other pregnancy, there is nothing different about it - yet people seem to make a distinction between a 'rape baby' and a 'normally concieved baby'. The rape for me is irrelevant to the case, we are dealing to the the rights of an unborn child not the circumstances surrounding it.
Yes, but the woman was consenting for sex, and this leads possibly to the creation of life. Whoch she knows fullwell on how it might happen. Rape however does not.
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Amazing
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#64
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#64
(Original post by *dave*)
The amin reason that abortion is legalised is because it stops women going to backstreet clinics (abortions would still be in demand even if it was illegal) ..

Surely you agree with this :

If we make abortion illegal, women will still go to these clinics. The NHS is then left to repair the damage.
Yeah, I agree. I don't want abortion to be made illegal, and I don't think I gave the impression that I did. I feel it's very wrong in some cases, and I don't show much sympathy to women who have one other than the "acceptable" reasons that almost everybody agrees on, but that doesn't mean I think it should be against the law. As said, it'd probably end up costing the taxpayer even more money, and wouldn't greatly reduce the number of abortions taking place anyway.

Saying that, I think that the ease and comfort in which a woman can get one now doesn't help the problem. Abortion should be seen as a necessary evil; as a last resort - not something that you can get in your lunch hour. It should probably be a little harder to get one - eg. you would have to obtain a court order to get one (which wouldn't be as hard as you might think, but would put the women who might be happy using abortion as contraception off having unprotected sex)


(Original post by JSM)
actually i have read of childbirth being hte ultimate orgasm that a woman can have
Uh huh. Would make a nice anti-abortion slogan, actualy.
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*dave*
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#65
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#65
(Original post by Amazing)
Yeah, I agree. I don't want abortion to be made illegal, and I don't think I gave the impression that I did. I feel it's very wrong in some cases, and I don't show much sympathy to women who have one other than the "acceptable" reasons that almost everybody agrees on, but that doesn't mean I think it should be against the law. As said, it'd probably end up costing the taxpayer even more money, and wouldn't greatly reduce the number of abortions taking place anyway.

Saying that, I think that the ease and comfort in which a woman can get one now doesn't help the problem. Abortion should be seen as a necessary evil; as a last resort - not something that you can get in your lunch hour. It should probably be a little harder to get one - eg. you would have to obtain a court order to get one (which wouldn't be as hard as you might think, but would put the women who might be happy using abortion as contraception off having unprotected sex)




Uh huh. Would make a nice anti-abortion slogan, actualy.
I didnt agree with the previous post, but I do agree with this one. Currently, two doctors have to agree that having the baby will present either physical or emotional damage to the mother, or will be severely physically or mentally handicapped. I feel that in theory, this is enough and the need to obtain a court order is a little unneccessary.

However, things don't always work out in practice, like the mother who aborted her baby with the cleft palate. I can't see how the two doctors agreed that a cleft palate was justification for an abortion. If the mother already had 5 children and she wasn't financially able to have a fifth, then I feel that this would be justification.

On the 'adoption' argument. There are currently many children in care who are waiting to be adopted. There arent all these parents who want to adopt ... people are choosing now for surrogacy or IVF. Many of these children aren't going to be adopted, and are going to spend large proportions of their child life in care - which is psychologically damaging. Increasing the amount of adopted babies isn't going to be a good thing. There aren't enough childless couples to foster them.
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Amazing
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#66
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#66
(Original post by *dave*)
On the 'adoption' argument. There are currently many children in care who are waiting to be adopted. There arent all these parents who want to adopt ... people are choosing now for surrogacy or IVF. Many of these children aren't going to be adopted, and are going to spend large proportions of their child life in care - which is psychologically damaging. Increasing the amount of adopted babies isn't going to be a good thing. There aren't enough childless couples to foster them.
Well, as I quite specifically said, I think the whole adoption system at the moment is ludicrous. I think the most basic of backgrounds checks should be run to check the potential adopters haven't been convicted of any serious criminal offences or suchlike, and then simply have the baby handed over to them. It's not like we snoop around parents when they've had their first natural child to check they're going to be perfect mummy's and daddy's - it shouldn't be much different for those who want to adopt.
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on_a_plain_11
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#67
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#67
Im adopted, i have no idea who my birth mother and father are/were (and no, im not a 'rape baby' or disabled or anything like that) so i havn't got a clue about the issues surrounding why i was given away. However, I do know that i am very thankful that i wasn't aborted and that my birth mother chose to give me life, even though she either couldn't or didn't want to look after me. I know that it was probably the hardest decision she's had to make, and if i was in her shoes i'd definitely choose to give my baby to someone who desperately wants one. I'm not anti-abortion, as i feel its the decision of each individual and their circumstances, but either way its one very difficult decision that you have to live with for the rest of you're life.
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JSM
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#68
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#68
(Original post by Amazing)
Well, as I quite specifically said, I think the whole adoption system at the moment is ludicrous. I think the most basic of backgrounds checks should be run to check the potential adopters haven't been convicted of any serious criminal offences or suchlike, and then simply have the baby handed over to them. It's not like we snoop around parents when they've had their first natural child to check they're going to be perfect mummy's and daddy's - it shouldn't be much different for those who want to adopt.
but peopel dont want to hand their children over to someone whop cant treat them right
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Bigcnee
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#69
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#69
It makes me laugh how Pro-choicers go on about pregnancy induced by rape. I'm not exactly sure on the statistics but I think this constitutes 0.02% of all pregnancies, and is thus, hardly a huge sticking point.
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Amazing
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#70
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#70
(Original post by Bigcnee)
It makes me laugh how Pro-choicers go on about pregnancy induced by rape. I'm not exactly sure on the statistics but I think this constitutes 0.02% of all pregnancies, and is thus, hardly a huge sticking point.
Exactly. Admitedly a fair proportion of unwanted pregnancies are due to failed contraception actualy, the majority are down to not using contraception in any shape or form. People really have to grow up and take responsibility for what they do, rather than whine and degrade rape victims by acting as if their self-inflicted unwanted pregnancy is anywhere near as painful to accept as those who have had it forcefully thrust upon them through rape.
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JSM
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#71
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#71
(Original post by Amazing)
Exactly. Admitedly a fair proportion of unwanted pregnancies are due to failed contraception actualy, the majority are down to not using contraception in any shape or form. People really have to grow up and take responsibility for what they do, rather than whine and degrade rape victims by acting as if their self-inflicted unwanted pregnancy is anywhere near as painful to accept as those who have had it forcefully thrust upon them through rape.
but still, if they believe in abortions, they should be able to have them
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VoodooDoll
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#72
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#72
i'm catagorically against abortion.
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Amazing
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#73
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#73
(Original post by JSM)
but still, if they believe in abortions, they should be able to have them
What sort of flawed logic is that? Because somebody wants to do something, they should automatically be able to do it?
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JSM
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#74
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#74
(Original post by VoodooDoll)
i'm catagorically against abortion.
good for you, you dont have to have one, now kindly allow those who do wish to haev one, have one and be quiet. On a tangent, what about those who choose a ceasarian other than for medical reasons - surely thats worse as it wastes NHS money, whuch could be used to cure people
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Bigcnee
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#75
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#75
(Original post by JSM)
good for you, you dont have to have one, now kindly allow those who do wish to haev one, have one and be quiet.
Absurd logic.
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JSM
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#76
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#76
(Original post by Amazing)
What sort of flawed logic is that? Because somebody wants to do something, they should automatically be able to do it?
waht sort of flawed logic is it to say that because some people believe it is morally wrong to have a termination, then terminations should be banned. It is for the two organisms to decide, the mother and the father as to whether they want to have it.
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Amazing
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#77
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#77
(Original post by JSM)
waht sort of flawed logic is it to say that because some people believe it is morally wrong to have a termination, then terminations should be banned. It is for the two organisms to decide, the mother and the father as to whether they want to have it.
That's very flawed logic. But funnily enough, as I've said several times, I don't think they should be banned.
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Bigcnee
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#78
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#78
(Original post by JSM)
waht sort of flawed logic is it to say that because some people believe it is morally wrong to have a termination, then terminations should be banned. It is for the two organisms to decide, the mother and the father as to whether they want to have it.
I believe Murder is OK if I hate the person enough. So stop infringing on my human rights and let me get on with it. :rolleyes:
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JSM
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#79
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#79
(Original post by Bigcnee)
I believe Murder is OK if I hate the person enough. So stop infringing on my human rights and let me get on with it. :rolleyes:
ok, well murder affects another sentient being, so society has to stop you
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Bigcnee
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#80
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#80
(Original post by JSM)
ok, well murder affects another sentient being, so society has to stop you
I sense a contradiction.
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