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Is Libya better off under Gadaffi or the Rebels? watch

  • View Poll Results: Who is Libya bet off under...
    Rebels
    26
    74.29%
    Gaddafi
    9
    25.71%

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    The rebels have taken power across Libya bar a few areas and are now looking towards forming a government.

    Apparently however...

    - Libya now has over 90% literacy,
    - Libya is now the richest country in Africa,
    - Under Gaddafi’s oil-revenue-sharing program, each Libyan gets $500 (Dollars) deposited into his or her bank account each month,
    - There is virtually no homelessness in Libya as everyone is given a home
    - On marriage, each couple is gifted $60,000 to do with as they please; furnish their home, take a holiday, honeymoon, buy car, etc.
    - Libya gives free land and seeds to anyone who wants to farm that land.
    - Healthcare is free and Libyan pharmacies and hospitals are comparable to high-quality European facilities.

    In my opinion it is not worth having all this as it comes at the cost of free speech, and the risk of jail or even worst if you oppose the government.

    We don't know exactly what the rebels stand for in Libya but could it be that they end up being more brutal and authoritarian then Gaddafi was?
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    You are a bit outdated. The UN has already recognised the National Transitional Council as the legitimate representative of Libya as has the African Union, they have already formed a government as such under the leadership of Mustafa Abdul Jalil.

    However the Libyan people have got their freedom and a tyrant has been thrown down. We cannot tell what will happen next but generally I would say the signs are good. I think it would be pretty difficult for any government to be worse than Gaddafi.
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    Too early to say and the rebels should just be a transition from Gaddafi to democracy if the rebels were to remain in power for a significant amount of time the Libyans should consider a second revolution.
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    Woah! I didn't realise all of that was available in Libya.

    However, we can't really answer your question untill the rebels tell us their policies first.
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    It might not be better under the rebels, but it's better with the opportunity the rebellion has given them.
    We don't know what the current situation will evolve into, but it's better to take a chance at real freedom than it is to play it safe under tyranny.
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    Patrick Cockburn put it very well when he said the following:

    For all the demonisation of Gaddafi, he was never a monster on the lines of Saddam Hussein. His regime might kill, torture and imprison his enemies, but not on the industrial scale of Iraq. On visits to Libya over the past 30 years, I have been more struck by the Inspector Clouseau character of the regime than anything else. Official minders in the 1980s once took me into the desert to see the Libyan army withdraw from Chad but could not find any of the soldiers. Eventually our vehicle stopped and our driver explained: "No petrol!" He went off to get some. I said I was going for a walk. A minder said this was unwise because we were in a minefield and I noticed the lethal little prongs sticking out of the sand beside the road.

    One danger is that war propaganda, skilled on the rebel side, may have poisoned relations between Libyans to the point that it will be difficult for the victors to eschew vengeance. For instance, the story of officially encouraged mass rape as a weapon of war was propagated by the rebel side and credulously taken up by the international media. A UN commission, Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch found no evidence for this and many other atrocity stories but their reports were generally ignored by the media. Ordinary Libyans still believe the propaganda. In May, I spoke to refugees from the oil port of Brega who said the main reason for their flight was the conviction that the women would be raped by pro-Gaddafi troops.

    The legacies of war may be difficult to overcome. But Libyans have a good chance of restoring peace and prosperity. They are not divided by communal and sectarian differences as in Afghanistan and Iraq. For all the complaints against Gaddafi and misuse of oil money, the standard of living and educational standards are high. There is not a marginalised section of the population, living on the edge of malnutrition, as do a third of Afghans. Oil revenues are high and the six million population small enough for them to benefit all. Unlike Iraq, there is no occupying foreign army.
    In reality it is not as black as white as Gaddafi = bad, Rebels = good. Gaddafi's regime was reprehensible and yet relatively small time, certainly no worse than the dozens of authoritarian and murdering tryrants across the world who the West turn a blind eye to. Noone really knows who the Rebels are and there has been a lot of worrying news which has been overlooked, such as their racism against migrants and black men, and the prescence of Islamic extremists in their ranks. Also the untrustworthy reports they often release and the murder of that Rebel Commander a few weeks back.

    Ultimately it is good that Gaddafi is gone, but there is reason to worry about the nature of the regime that will succeed him
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    (Original post by Adman32)

    - Libya now has over 90% literacy,
    - Libya is now the richest country in Africa,
    - Under Gaddafi’s oil-revenue-sharing program, each Libyan gets $500 (Dollars) deposited into his or her bank account each month,
    - There is virtually no homelessness in Libya as everyone is given a home
    - On marriage, each couple is gifted $60,000 to do with as they please; furnish their home, take a holiday, honeymoon, buy car, etc.
    - Libya gives free land and seeds to anyone who wants to farm that land.
    - Healthcare is free and Libyan pharmacies and hospitals are comparable to high-quality European facilities.
    Somehow I can't believe this. Any sources or evidence to back all this up?
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    It's a step towards democracy even if the Rebels are a little disorganised.

    Edit: Just read the OP's post - what a load of nonsense.
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    OP's post is complete BS. This is where Libya's money really went under that mad mans control:

    "In February 1977, Libya started delivering military supplies to Goukouni Oueddei and the People's Armed Forces in Chad."

    and

    "Much of the country’s income from oil, which soared in the 1970s, was spent on arms purchases and on sponsoring dozens of paramilitaries and terrorist groups around the world."

    Source is Wikipedia.
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    rebels because despite all your statistics and facts most citizens are now probably a lot happier because they have hope now
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    (Original post by Adman32)
    The rebels have taken power across Libya bar a few areas and are now looking towards forming a government.

    Apparently however...

    - Libya now has over 90% literacy,
    - Libya is now the richest country in Africa,
    - Under Gaddafi’s oil-revenue-sharing program, each Libyan gets $500 (Dollars) deposited into his or her bank account each month,
    - There is virtually no homelessness in Libya as everyone is given a home
    - On marriage, each couple is gifted $60,000 to do with as they please; furnish their home, take a holiday, honeymoon, buy car, etc.
    - Libya gives free land and seeds to anyone who wants to farm that land.
    - Healthcare is free and Libyan pharmacies and hospitals are comparable to high-quality European facilities.

    In my opinion it is not worth having all this as it comes at the cost of free speech, and the risk of jail or even worst if you oppose the government.

    We don't know exactly what the rebels stand for in Libya but could it be that they end up being more brutal and authoritarian then Gaddafi was?
    ?
    Discuss.
    I find this difficult to believe source please ?
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    Yep, lets completely forget that a lot of the so called rebels were actually trained forces from foreign countries. Exactly same problem in Syria right now, the Syrian foreign Minister spoke of having to use force against trained militia at the UN last week. Yet when it's reported about in the news, it's suddenly innocent protesters getting slaughtered by the Syrian army. It's baffling that the general public can't even ask as to whether it would be beneficial for a ruler to kill his own people in the streets, when they pose little active threat? We've seen the same thing before over the past 50 years, see Iran in the 50s, Bay of Pigs, Nicaragua, Chile etc. It's just a propaganda tool to rid of disliked rulers.

    It's sad though that the vast majority will when feed crap will open up and swallow in exactly the way they're wanted to.
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    As a libyan, I have to say that the OPs post is mostly bs.
    In Gaddafi Libya even a highly trained doctor would earn around 2000 dinars a month. There is no way a married couple would get any money. Also, healthcare was supposedly free but is was so crap the majority of Libyans have to go to Tunisia or Egypt for serious medical treatment.
    Gaddafi himself made a remark about this saying that "oh, well at least they have the money to go to Tunisia"
    Hopefully, Libya will be better off without the tyrant and I suppose that one of the good things about the international involvemnt through Nato, is that nobody can afford for Libya to 'go wrong'.
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    Surely if things were that great with Gaddaffi then they can just vote for the same policies he did minus the corruption and authoritarianism?
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    (Original post by englishmad)
    As a libyan, I have to say that the OPs post is mostly bs.
    In Gaddafi Libya even a highly trained doctor would earn around 2000 dinars a month. There is no way a married couple would get any money. Also, healthcare was supposedly free but is was so crap the majority of Libyans have to go to Tunisia or Egypt for serious medical treatment.
    Gaddafi himself made a remark about this saying that "oh, well at least they have the money to go to Tunisia"
    Hopefully, Libya will be better off without the tyrant and I suppose that one of the good things about the international involvemnt through Nato, is that nobody can afford for Libya to 'go wrong'.
    Like they couldn't afford Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan etc to go wrong? They don't give a crap, they'll leave the country in ruins, all the damage to Tripoli etc will still be there just as very little has changed in those other places.
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    (Original post by AndroidLight)
    Like they couldn't afford Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan etc to go wrong? They don't give a crap, they'll leave the country in ruins, all the damage to Tripoli etc will still be there just as very little has changed in those other places.
    I can see your point, but unlike some of the examples you've given, Libyan rebels started the revolution themselves. They organised a governmental body themselves, I know it's flawed, but overall they have done generally the right thing. Furthermore, I think that they might take a bit more care with libya as they can't afford to have another Iraq etc on their hands.
    And look at Saudi Arabia, I personally don't think the new voting law would have come about without huge pressure from the USA.
    As an optimist, I'm hoping this means that they will try to prevent another dictatorial regime forming. fingers crossed.
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    It all depends on whether the new council/government can maintain law and order. Dictatorships are more preferable than chaos and lawlessness.
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    (Original post by Adman32)
    Apparently however...

    - Libya now has over 90% literacy,
    - Libya is now the richest country in Africa,
    - Under Gaddafi’s oil-revenue-sharing program, each Libyan gets $500 (Dollars) deposited into his or her bank account each month,
    - There is virtually no homelessness in Libya as everyone is given a home
    - On marriage, each couple is gifted $60,000 to do with as they please; furnish their home, take a holiday, honeymoon, buy car, etc.
    - Libya gives free land and seeds to anyone who wants to farm that land.
    - Healthcare is free and Libyan pharmacies and hospitals are comparable to high-quality European facilities.
    Is this true? as if it is, will the NTC be able to keep this going as this is quite good imo.
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    (Original post by GwrxVurfer)
    The fact that the rebels are a very violent force has been obvious from the start. The consistent bombing against the two major areas that remain independent, Sirte and Bani Walid, shows how quickly the rebels forget about their "democracy" when it comes to towns who still side with the Government.

    If the NTC and NATO really did have the support of Libya, then:

    - Why do they (the NTC) threaten the "bloodletting" of civilians who support the Government?- Why would they (Both the NTC and NATO) encounter stiff resistance from both civilians and military?
    - Why would 1.7 million people (A third of the population of Libya) protest back in July against NATO's civilian-focused bombing campaign?
    That's complete bull****, from the start the NTC have been urging against acts of revenge. Where are your sources???
 
 
 
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