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    Some schools have streaming based on ability which seems to negate the nessescity
    for grammar schools.

    I never saw the point of having a separate school for people of one ability and another school for people of another.

    Streaming also means the stream you are in is based on your ability in a certain subject which is fairer than having to pass an entrance exam where you have to to pass in all the subjects even if you are strong in one subject like maths but poor at another like comprehension.
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    I went to a selective grammar school, we were still streamed in maths, English and science.

    There's still a wide range of ability within grammar schools.
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    (Original post by Aphotic Cosmos)
    I went to a selective grammar school, we were still streamed in maths, English and science.

    There's still a wide range of ability within grammar schools.
    So it was a bit pointless doing the entrance exam and setting up a separate school.
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    am i the only one that thinks grammar schools are useless
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    (Original post by Maker)
    Some schools have streaming based on ability which seems to negate the nessescity
    for grammar schools.

    I never saw the point of having a separate school for people of one ability and another school for people of another.

    Streaming also means the stream you are in is based on your ability in a certain subject which is fairer than having to pass an entrance exam where you have to to pass in all the subjects even if you are strong in one subject like maths but poor at another like comprehension.
    It is not possible to provide for students of all academic levels and preferences at one school. A grammar school simply allows pre-streaming of the populace into a) those who pass the exams and b) those who don't.

    I personally go to the sixth form of a comprehensive school in an area where there is no grammar school. People of all abilities come here. I have no problem with this and the school still consistently gets great exam results - we are the highest non-selective state school in the country for GCSE results I believe - but the school were not able to adequately provide for the needs of those of us who wanted to start our AS levels in maths earlier. The three of us who did it managed to pass anyway but it involved a huge amount of work and stress on our parts, mainly because there was no-one available to teach us. I believe that at a grammar school this would not have been a problem.
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    (Original post by Maker)
    Some schools have streaming based on ability which seems to negate the nessescity
    for grammar schools.

    I never saw the point of having a separate school for people of one ability and another school for people of another.

    Streaming also means the stream you are in is based on your ability in a certain subject which is fairer than having to pass an entrance exam where you have to to pass in all the subjects even if you are strong in one subject like maths but poor at another like comprehension.
    So you dont see that putting children in classes with those who are not as intelligent and clever as they are, is holding them back?

    Why should those children who are able to achieve more, be held back by being taught below thier natural level?
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    (Original post by MonkeyNews)
    So you dont see that putting children in classes with those who are not as intelligent and clever as they are, is holding them back?

    Why should those children who are able to achieve more, be held back by being taught below thier natural level?
    I think it helps to understand the question before replying.
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    I agree, I was always pro grammar schools until mine went all performing artsy. If you are going to be a grammar school, you should be forced to attain a certain level of gcse grades otherwise lose your selective status.

    And no, drama does not count as an academic course.
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    I don't believe that grammar schools are actually good for anything.
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    (Original post by WharfedaleTiger)
    I don't believe that grammar schools are actually good for anything.
    Well to put it one way, the compos in my home town are so amazingly dire that my mum would actually have homeschooled me to avoid going there if I hadn't gotten into the local selective grammar. I also know that in my year, and even more so in the lower years, a very large proportion of the school came from more deprived backgrounds - being at a grammar school gave them the chance to move up in the world by getting a better education, and without the environment of a grammar school with all it's history (founded before the civil war dontchaknow) and the house system, the class debates and whatnot, I firmly believe that most people who attended my school would have done worse academically if they had attended a comprehensive school.
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    I don't understand why they got rid of most of the grammar schools in the country but kept them in select areas. It is like they are purposely trying to make people living in certain areas of the country to perform worst.
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    (Original post by strawberryjellybaby)
    I agree, I was always pro grammar schools until mine went all performing artsy. If you are going to be a grammar school, you should be forced to attain a certain level of gcse grades otherwise lose your selective status.

    And no, drama does not count as an academic course.
    Your sig... :teehee:
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    (Original post by WharfedaleTiger)
    I don't believe that grammar schools are actually good for anything.
    Believe me, when you grow up in Saaaaf London surrounded by yobbos, you pray for a grammar school (and it never comes )
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    (Original post by Jacktri)
    I don't understand why they got rid of most of the grammar schools in the country but kept them in select areas. It is like they are purposely trying to make people living in certain areas of the country to perform worst.
    Local Authorities have a choice over whether they retain a selective system or not. Kent, Buckinghamshire, and Lincolnshire all chose to retain the system, and there are individual selective grammars almost everywhere in England as well.
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    (Original post by Aphotic Cosmos)
    Local Authorities have a choice over whether they retain a selective system or not. Kent, Buckinghamshire, and Lincolnshire all chose to retain the system, and there are individual selective grammars almost everywhere in the UK as well.
    Damn if My house was 1 mile in one direction I would be in Buckinghamshire. There is a selective boys schools here attended by Doctor Who himself but of course I live in the middle of nowhere and there wasn't a school bus to there.
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    (Original post by Maker)
    Some schools have streaming based on ability which seems to negate the nessescity
    for grammar schools.

    I never saw the point of having a separate school for people of one ability and another school for people of another.

    Streaming also means the stream you are in is based on your ability in a certain subject which is fairer than having to pass an entrance exam where you have to to pass in all the subjects even if you are strong in one subject like maths but poor at another like comprehension.
    Streaming is all well and good when you have relatively minor discrepancies in ability in a pupil base with a decent work ethic.

    The problem is, when 25% of the pupils don't care about education and constantly mess around, there's no atmosphere of study to a place, and lots of people get sucked into being lazy/disruptive who otherwise wouldn't be.
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    (Original post by Aphotic Cosmos)
    Well to put it one way, the compos in my home town are so amazingly dire that my mum would actually have homeschooled me to avoid going there if I hadn't gotten into the local selective grammar. I also know that in my year, and even more so in the lower years, a very large proportion of the school came from more deprived backgrounds - being at a grammar school gave them the chance to move up in the world by getting a better education, and without the environment of a grammar school with all it's history (founded before the civil war dontchaknow) and the house system, the class debates and whatnot, I firmly believe that most people who attended my school would have done worse academically if they had attended a comprehensive school.
    I understand this to some extent, but what happens to those who don't perform highly in the test? They're essentially written off for any kind of higher education/professional careers aged 11. In the comprehensive system they would probably do better.
    People develop at different ages and a lot of people (especially boys) don't mature academically or intellectually until they're much older than 11 and may not perform well in the test even though they will become intelligent adults. It doesn't really seem right to effectively decide someone's future at an arbitrary age which by any standard is very young.
    The only real solution is to improve all state schools to the level of the best to remove the disparity, imo.
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    (Original post by Aphotic Cosmos)
    Well to put it one way, the compos in my home town are so amazingly dire that my mum would actually have homeschooled me to avoid going there if I hadn't gotten into the local selective grammar. I also know that in my year, and even more so in the lower years, a very large proportion of the school came from more deprived backgrounds - being at a grammar school gave them the chance to move up in the world by getting a better education, and without the environment of a grammar school with all it's history (founded before the civil war dontchaknow) and the house system, the class debates and whatnot, I firmly believe that most people who attended my school would have done worse academically if they had attended a comprehensive school.
    The problem is that its not just about you or, indeed, me. The grammar school system doesn't just affect those who make it to the grammar but also the schools around them and the education of the majority who don't make it to a grammar school. Grammar Schools are great for the 20% who go to them but they ruin the education of the other 80%.

    Wonder why the local comprehensive/secondary moderns are so poor? The creaming off of the top 20% may have something to do with it.

    There is also considerable evidence that grammars do not actually imrpove the education of those who go to them that much. There is solid evidence of underachievement in those who go to secondary moderns (When one considers pretty muhc every statistic secondary moderns underachieve) but grammars have suprisingly low value added scores. They get the best pupils from the best background but don't achieve that much.

    Also homeschooled instead of going to the comprehensive. Seriously? Sucks to be you. There is nothing wrong with comprehensives and in my experiance people will do well if they have the ability and work ethnic no matter which school they go to. It is harder at a comprehensive but you also get a far wider range of people and experiances (I say this as someone who went to a grammar and secondary modern).
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    (Original post by Maker)
    So it was a bit pointless doing the entrance exam and setting up a separate school.
    Hardly, because even the students who are streamed into the bottom of the groups at grammar schools, are still usually above/ equivalent to those in the "higher" groups at standard state schools.
    For example at my school: "Percentage of pupils achieving A*-C in both GCSE English and mathematics is 99%", so even those in the lesser able groups still preform better than those from other schools.

    The argument about being with like minded people who want to learn, is from my experience a wrong mis-conception - in most of the GCSE classes I was in people still pissed about an awful lot, didn't hand in coursework anywhere near on time etc. However because the people who go to grammar schools are generally clever than those who do not everyone still achieved pretty decent GCSE results - those who did not meet the minimum points requirement from GCSE results were not allowed entry into the sixth form.

    You would have thought people would start taking lessons seriously in sixth form, however my AS level Maths class is an absolute joke, it's hilarious but there is a total lack of work done.
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    (Original post by najinaji)
    Believe me, when you grow up in Saaaaf London surrounded by yobbos, you pray for a grammar school (and it never comes )
    So your view is basically snobbery...
 
 
 
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