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Gown and sub-fusc...Yay or Nay?

I was reading on the Oxford Student about the possibility of abolishing subfusc for exams...Was wondering what everyone thinks, do you agree or disagree?

I think it makes sense not to wear all that annoying stuff for exams, but I'm 'against' total abolition of gown and subfusc, as someone else seemed to suggest later on...It's part of the tradition! I think, as silly as we look in it, it's fun to see the city invaded by penguins for ceremonies and stuff. I'm especially attached to the gown, it looks quite cool when wearing jeans, lol! :p:

Reply 1

Elles

17

I'm definitely a whopping great YAY for gown & sub fusc personally:

saves what to wear for exam palaver;
gets into "exam" mindset;
addition of carnation - really sweet tradition i enjoy;
good excuse for new matriculation/sub fusc pair of heels, regulation "stockings" etc & rather modestly.. :wink:

it suits me! :p:

;
makes traffic stop for you on insane oxford roads when you're running late for an exam;
makes the finishers more vulnerable to well wishing friends to descend!

& gown = good incentive to work hard... & swooshing is inherently fun.

but if it deters applicants, especially from the sort of demographics the uni is trying to encourage, then.. :bawling:

Reply 2

kalen

OP

8

I keep wondering why wearing a sort of uniform should discourage applicants...surely if you base your choice of unis on what they wear...well, you're pretty superficial! I mean, in the UK is common for pupils to wear uniforms at school, so why should wearing it every once in a while in a uni as a tradition deter people? I'm from a non-typical-Oxbridge demographic but it probably attracted me even more cause I love the feeling of belonging that you get when you wear gown and sub-fusc. I think it evens out the differences, if else, as everyone looks the same and you can't tell the supposedly "posh" kids apart from the supposedly "non-posh" ones (stupid stereotypes :rolleyes:

)

Reply 3

Calymath

Is it true you can charge japanese tourists to take pictures with you when you're wearing sub-fusc?

Reply 4

kalen

OP

8

lol, I don't know about that, but I wouldn't be surprised!

Reply 5

confuddled101

I think it definitely adds to the tradition and 'mystique' behind oxford (and cambridge) and sets their history and traditions apart from other unis

Reply 6

mellow-yellow

1

I'm really not sure.. maybe I have to experience it first?! :confused:

Reply 7

Cirsium

19

I wouldn't give it up at all
Firstly I like the tradition
Secondly I especially like it for exams. I remember us having a non-uniform day the day of my chemistry and stats exam and I know at least one person in my chem lab came in specifically in uniform because he felt he'd be in totally the wrong mindset in his own clothes.

Reply 8

Drogue

19

I'd keep the whole of sub-fusc for matriculation, graduation and any necessary formals, but do away with all but the gown for exams. For exams you need to be comfortable, and I personally find sub fusc slightly uncomfortable. Bowties weren't designed with comfort in mind.

Reply 9

OldMan

Drogue

I'd keep the whole of sub-fusc for matriculation, graduation and any necessary formals, but do away with all but the gown for exams. For exams you need to be comfortable, and I personally find sub fusc slightly uncomfortable. Bowties weren't designed with comfort in mind.

But I didn't think you had to wear sub-fusc while taking the exam; only to arrive (and leave?); am I wrong?

Reply 10

dancingqueen

11

OldMan

But I didn't think you had to wear sub-fusc while taking the exam; only to arrive (and leave?); am I wrong?

Sub-fusc is white shirt and black trousers/skirt, with black tights (girls) and a ribbon for girls, white bow tie for guys. Would you want to sit an exam in your underwear? :wink:

Reply 11

kalen

OP

8

dancingqueen

Sub-fusc is white shirt and black trousers/skirt, with black tights (girls) and a ribbon for girls, white bow tie for guys. Would you want to sit an exam in your underwear? :wink:

Reply 12

OldMan

dancingqueen

Sub-fusc is white shirt and black trousers/skirt, with black tights (girls) and a ribbon for girls, white bow tie for guys. Would you want to sit an exam in your underwear? :wink:

Interesting thought. I had more in mind a sort of sub-sub-fusc. Just losing the tie/gown etc, but I suppose your idea might catch on. It wiould certainly give me an advantage. If the other candidates had to see me in my underwear they would be scarred for life, not just the duration of the exam!

Reply 13

Golden Maverick

4

OldMan

Interesting thought. I had more in mind a sort of sub-sub-fusc. Just losing the tie/gown etc, but I suppose your idea might catch on. It wiould certainly give me an advantage. If the other candidates had to see me in my underwear they would be scarred for life, not just the duration of the exam!

Well it'd put them off whether it was a pretty sight or not.

You are right about it just being leaving + arriving in full sub fusc. Once at your bench most people go down to shirt w/o top button. Although they are surprisingly strict on your attire otherwise, as in you aren't allowed to sit the exam without it.

Reply 14

Drogue

19

OldMan

But I didn't think you had to wear sub-fusc while taking the exam; only to arrive (and leave?); am I wrong?

Yes. Well, ish, you can take it off for bits, but it's still uncomfortable and time consuming.

dancingqueen

Sub-fusc is white shirt and black trousers/skirt, with black tights (girls) and a ribbon for girls, white bow tie for guys. Would you want to sit an exam in your underwear? :wink:

Yes. I usually write essays in PJs/underwear/a towel, it's nice and relaxing :smile:

Reply 15

house badger

7

I think the proposal isn't a choice between keeping it or abolishing it, it's a choice between keeping it compulsory or making it optional. I quite like the idea of optional subfusc. I would probably wear it for my first and last finals and then wear something more comfortable for the middle ones. The idea of post-finals celebrations not being in sub-fusc seems a bit weird now that I've been at Oxford for 3 years. I think if I were still involved in OUSU I'd vote for having a referendum, it makes sense to give students a direct vote on such an issue, as I'm sure there's lots of different individual opinions about.

I think the point about sub-fusc deterring applicants is a relevant concern. Although it's a fairly irrational fear it adds to the general perception amongst lots of applicants that Oxford is a different world, in which they do not belong. Things about Oxford will always add to this perception: colleges, architecture, traditions, drinking societies... but it doesn't mean we necessarily have to abolish them. I think it's important to get out the message that they're essentially superficial features and doesn't define Oxford.

Reply 16

NeverMindThat

1

dancingqueen

Sub-fusc is white shirt and black trousers/skirt, with black tights (girls) and a ribbon for girls, white bow tie for guys. Would you want to sit an exam in your underwear? :wink:

You can take off your jacket and bow tie. Anyone who isnt comfortable in trousers and a open necked shirt is going to struggle socialising.

Reply 17

ClearlyHard

Hi,
I'm from a state comp. the whole idea of oxford for me and my mates is that it preserves all these traditions and the tradition of elite academic learning for those lucky / good enuff to get in. the Oxford Student newspaper article mentioned sokmeone from OUStudents Union saying doing away with gowns and subfusc would encourage people like me. Rubbish! (and don't patronise me / us, please!)

Reply 18

Crazy Mongoose

12

ClearlyHard

Hi,
I'm from a state comp. the whole idea of oxford for me and my mates is that it preserves all these traditions and the tradition of elite academic learning for those lucky / good enuff to get in. the Oxford Student newspaper article mentioned sokmeone from OUStudents Union saying doing away with gowns and subfusc would encourage people like me. Rubbish! (and don't patronise me / us, please!)

Thats very true. The fact judges are in silly clothes doesn't stop state students from aspiring to the judiciary. Likewise with the Bar...

Reply 19

MatthewH

3

There are many things that may put people off Oxford, but sub fusc isn't one of them. The Access people, whilst I fully support their work 90% of them time and think that it is a cause worth striving for, can be over-zealous and patronising. If people are intimidated by traditions then surely the answer is to go to either a) point out how harmless and fun the traditions are or b) let them go to a uni with a different approach. In fact, I think a uniform like sub fusc is a great way of fostering equality and inclusion. And it looks so good.

Gown and sub-fusc...Yay or Nay?

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