Too many international students????

Ok while I have absolutly no problem with international students at all (plz dnt think i do :P) I get annoyed at the fact that universities try to get so many of them into their universities. They think this makes them look like a better university? Well I have no rpoblem with this xcept my friend was rejected by St Andrews last year (she had 5 A's at Higher) while we heard of International students being accepted with lesser qualifications, Shouldn't scottish students have priority of studying at scottish universities rather than international students with less qualifications?
If you are an international student please do not be offended by this as That is not what I intend
I would simply like to draw to peoples attention that the number of international students atracted to a university does not reflect on how good a university actually is

Ive started drifting away from the point I just wanted a rant lol soz

and as I said this is not against international students as you are some of the nicest people I meet Im just annoyed at some universities

Reply 1

Renza

11

I have lightheartedly thought of money being the problem but then... This really could be the case. Maybe they are money-grabbers? :eek:

Meh... I look forward to the thought of meeting foreign people but not if there are too many...

Reply 2

mishy1121

I'm an international applying to St Andrews, and I was deferred from my top choice US school (Dartmouth). I saw on another forum several internationals who were accepted at Dartmouth with lesser qualifications (and this happens at many US schools). So, I think it evens out.

I'm not saying that schools should accept students with lower qualifications just because they are internationals, I'm just saying that it happens on both ends :rolleyes:

. I hope if I get into St Andrews that it's on my own merits though!

Reply 3

L i b

19

wendy_17

Shouldn't scottish students have priority of studying at scottish universities rather than international students with less qualifications?

No. Should students from Edinburgh be the first to get into Edinburgh uni? It's not a question of bloody proximity. It's up to the unis, who do what benefits them.

Notably International Students also pay higher fees to my knowledge and are typically harder working - they're funding all the laid-back Scottish folk to sit on their arses and get the state to pay for their tuition (an awful state of affairs IMO)

To be honest, you sound like a 55 year old London cabbie talking about all those 'blasted foreigners coming over here and taking our jobs.'

Reply 4

StAndrewsIR

1

wendy_17

I get annoyed at the fact that universities try to get so many of them into their universities. They think this makes them look like a better university? Well I have no rpoblem with this xcept my friend was rejected by St Andrews last year (she had 5 A's at Higher) while we heard of International students being accepted with lesser qualifications, Shouldn't scottish students have priority of studying at scottish universities rather than international students with less qualifications?

A university is judged on its teaching and research, not its student demographic. Any university with excellent teaching and research can be expected to attract students from all over the world, and it only makes sense to accept the best students - some of whom, horror of horrors, might be international.

You need to remember that it's not all about qualifications. Your personal statement matters a great deal. Your friend's application is most likely not indicative of a general trend, and her rejection was probably based on her suitability to that particular course and motivation.

Reply 5

ebonyphoenix

1

Well, I agree with you about it not being fair to accept international students with lesser qualifications, but since when have university admissions ever been fair? University admissions are so unpredictable and universities are looking for other factors than mere academic qualifications. They want people who are going to contribute to other areas of the university and who are going to be successful in life, which is not always measured by Scottish highers or SAT scores or A levels. US admissions at top unis are very much a crap shoot; there are people who have perfect SAT scores who are rejected and seemingly less qualified candidates who are admitted because they are more well rounded, wrote better personal statements, ect. Or even because they are hispanic, black, international, ect and the uni wants more diversity. It's not exactly fair, but at the same time, uni is about expanding your horizons, meeting new people from different backgrounds, and becoming more worldly- don't you think you would get bored with a very homogeneous university population? I know I would.

And while univeristy admissions may seem random and arbitrary, there sometimes is a method behind the madness. Some people really do write spectatular personal statements that are much better than than the straight A-genius. Some people really have overcome numerous hardships that make them much stronger people than their fellow counterparts applying. I am very glad that universities are not wholely number based, because (shock, horror) maybe your grades do not measure your entire worth.

While I understand your concerns, know that, as Mishy has said, universities everywhere seek international students and these students may be perceived as hogging up prime spots. But at the same time, I think there is something to be said for the international applicant. Oftentimes these people are more driven and hardworking because they took the time to look outside the bubble where they grew up and know more about what they want from their education. I do not resent any of the international students taking up spots at US universities... most of them deserve to be there.

While St. Andrews has a lot of international students and applicants (hah I'm American) last time I checked the ratio was something like 2:8, so I don't
think the school is going to be ambushed and taken over by the international students anytime soon. I don't think you'll be taken hostage, if that's what you are concerned about. The university does have restrictions on the number of international students they can accept!

On a side note, hey Mishy! I see you have found my new home away from college confidential!

Reply 6

DenverDiva

1

wendy_17

Shouldn't scottish students have priority of studying at scottish universities rather than international students with less qualifications?
If you are an international student please do not be offended by this as That is not what I intend

Your rant is based on an erroneous assumption that admitting an international student means excluding a home student.

Home student numbers are capped and each university receives a target number from the Funding Council- if too few or too many are admitted then the university is financially penalised.

There is no cap on international student numbers (and as has been noted the overseas students pay much higher fees even after taking into account the non-fee element paid by the government for home students).

Every year well qualified home students fail to get a place at top unis such as St Andrews but this is because the universities are not allowed to admit more than their target not because the place has been taken by an international student.

Reply 7

Toy Soldier

3

International students pay. It's that simple. If they weren't there, the Uni would be a hole.

Reply 8

wιzard

On the other hand, European Union students, like me, don't pay tuition fees! I don't know why the SAAS pay for us but anyway, bless them. lol

Reply 9

mishy1121

Well said ebonyphoenix, and hello again! St Andrews received all parts of my app on January 9th, so hopefully I'll find out soon :smile:

Reply 10

Piker

the thing is students like me who are doing the International Baccalaureate are loved by the unis....they think its a great program because its better than a-levels (i dont know about the scottish system so i cant compare to that) and yeah international students have to pay loads more...(well i dont coz im half irish )

Reply 11

gigglybum

9

hmmmm

the thing is students like me who are doing the International Baccalaureate are loved by the unis....they think its a great program because its better than a-levels (i dont know about the scottish system so i cant compare to that) and yeah international students have to pay loads more...(well i dont coz im half irish )

yes i agree, the IB is great....really does come across well with the uni's.

Reply 12

xjimmyleungx

wendy_17

Well I have no rpoblem with this xcept my friend was rejected by St Andrews last year (she had 5 A's at Higher) while we heard of International students being accepted with lesser qualifications,

A view based on that is full of problems. When people discuss about university stuff, its ALWAYS 'oh my friend knows someone..' 'oh i heard this guy..' so on so on. I really doubt you know the whole story, maybe that international student has extraordinary performance in terms of extracurricular activities, etc? Or maybe she did very well in an interview? You cant reach a conclusion that "International students being accepted with lesser qualifications" just like that.

You'll hear people saying the same thing that the same, for competition between scottish students, for scottish VS english students, in both ways.

Reply 13

Piker

gigglybum

yes i agree, the IB is great....really does come across well with the uni's.

so have you done the IB or are doing the exams now 2 ?

Reply 14

gigglybum

9

hmmmm

so have you done the IB or are doing the exams now 2 ?

yeah i'm doing my IB exams now.

Reply 15

Tajel

1

wendy_17

Ok while I have absolutly no problem with international students at all (plz dnt think i do :P) I get annoyed at the fact that universities try to get so many of them into their universities. They think this makes them look like a better university?

Nope. They think it makes them wealthier.

wendy_17

Well I have no rpoblem with this xcept my friend was rejected by St Andrews last year (she had 5 A's at Higher) while we heard of International students being accepted with lesser qualifications, Shouldn't scottish students have priority of studying at scottish universities rather than international students with less qualifications?

Yes, you could argue that. But it isn't the universities' fault. They are chronically underfunded and have little option but to try to attract "full fare-paying" international students.

wendy_17

If you are an international student please do not be offended by this as That is not what I intend
I would simply like to draw to peoples attention that the number of international students atracted to a university does not reflect on how good a university actually is.

I doubt anyone thinks that that is the case.

wendy_17

Ive started drifting away from the point I just wanted a rant lol soz and as I said this is not against international students as you are some of the nicest people I meet Im just annoyed at some universities

Bear in mind that St. A's has high requirements; I would not be surprised if they turn a number of 5A applicants away. Your friend was not necessarily kept out by a non-native student.

Reply 16

yossarianlives

7

Original post by w&#953

On the other hand, European Union students, like me, don't pay tuition fees! I don't know why the SAAS pay for us but anyway, bless them. lol

They pay for anyone apart from the English!...

Kind of.

Reply 17

JayC

1

Everyone keep ranting on and on about how international students pay more money, and thus the Uni recieves a higher income... Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the Uni get just as much money from an International Student than from a Home Student, the only difference is that Home Students doesn't pay as much themselves, instead the govement pay what is left between the fixed £3000/year (or whatever it is in Scotland :p:

) and the overseas tuition fees...?? ummm, dunno if I make any sense :p:

Reply 18

Toy Soldier

3

Wiicked

Everyone keep ranting on and on about how international students pay more money, and thus the Uni recieves a higher income... Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the Uni get just as much money from an International Student than from a Home Student, the only difference is that Home Students doesn't pay as much themselves, instead the govement pay what is left between the fixed £3000/year (or whatever it is in Scotland :p:

) and the overseas tuition fees...?? ummm, dunno if I make any sense :p:

No, Scottish students pay ZERO fees themselves (unless they choose to, obviously you don't have to apply to the student funding agencies at all if you don't want to) and the government (in most cases) pays the university LESS than international students pay in fees.

Reply 19

JayC

1

Toy Soldier

No, Scottish students pay ZERO fees themselves (unless they choose to, obviously you don't have to apply to the student funding agencies at all if you don't want to) and the government (in most cases) pays the university LESS than international students pay in fees.

Ok, sorry I was wrong, :p:

it's just that we don't have tuition fees in Sweden either, the goverment pays a certain ammount for every student at a Uni, and International Students here pay that say ammount themselves, so the Uni itself doens't benefint financially from having more International Student...

Too many international students????

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