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The Medicine Interview Preparation Megathread 2012 Entry

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Original post by Annora

If someone is in danger you'd be under obligation to report it.


I would, yes. Fortunately (for the purposes of getting into medical school, as well as my morality) I now believe in reporting suspected child abuse.

My first ever post on this forum was saying that I believed in "not snitching" and that social workers unfairly "stole" children from innocent parents, so I would keep it to myself and refuse to follow any child protection/ safeguarding guidelines. I got stacks of negative rep and some very vehemently opposed responses, but I still thought it was right.

But in March, I read part of "Mummy told me not to tell" (a book about a Swindon man who raped his daughter, herself slow and mentally damaged, and produced children with serious disabilities. For years he hoodwinked professionals by acting a part as the caring grandfather. The children suffered abuse even after he was locked up due to their mother moving in with another pervert, until Social Services stepped in to take the six children away. The books is written by a foster carer.)

I got very upset and realised there are more important things in life than a "no snitching" code, and ignoring abuse is a form of complicity with it.
Reply 41
Avatar for Seb
Seb
Everyone here seems to know a lot more about medicine and ethics than I do :frown:

Anyway, what are the questions like for interviews at PMS, Mancheste, Cardiff and Glasgow.

Specific, I know... :colone:
Reply 42
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Helenia
20
Original post by joemullally
Fraser competence?
Is she like mature enough to cope with the issue herself, make rational choices about the life that she could potentially bring into the world or if she want's to terminate the pregnancy.
If she's not mature enough then a doctor would be obliged to tell the mother.
If the doctor were not to tell the mother the doctor would have to be 100% sure that the girl completely understood the consequences.
Also patient confidentiality, a patient (regardless of who they are) has asked you specifically to keep all the details confidential. Is it right then to breach that confidentiality. I mean in situations where the patient is at risk you are allowed to breach confidentiality, but if the patient is fraser guidline competent or gillick or whatever we're meant to call it then the doctor shouldn't breach the confidentiality as the patient isn't at enough risk to warrant telling the parent.
Also potentially lying to / witholding information from the mother, She is after all legally responsible for her daughter in most ways. She'll be the one who'l have to support the baby (probably) for a good while financially for example. Baby's are expensive, knowing before hand could help the mother plan for the process.
The daughter could also get moral support from the mother through this difficult time, or it could cause a huge family paddy, potentially causing friction within the family putting stress on the patient.

I need to do a bit of reading up don't I?



Oh btw how are we meant to pronounce non-maleficence? I've only ever seen it written down, on here or wikipedia or books etc.
didn't get any practice interviews etc last year, also didn't get any actual interviews.

non-mah-leh-fi-sense. Fairly phonetic.

And those answers are definitely a good start! I'll leave it a bit and see if anyone else has anything else to offer before I give my thoughts (which are by no means the definitive answers).
Original post by Seb
Everyone here seems to know a lot more about medicine and ethics than I do :frown:

Anyway, what are the questions like for interviews at PMS, Mancheste, Cardiff and Glasgow.

Specific, I know... :colone:


Peninsula is all ethics.
Reply 44
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Seb
Original post by joemullally
Peninsula is all ethics.


Oh, well...

...NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!
Original post by Helenia
non-mah-leh-fi-sense. Fairly phonetic.

And those answers are definitely a good start! I'll leave it a bit and see if anyone else has anything else to offer before I give my thoughts (which are by no means the definitive answers).


The mother may also be able to give information on possible genetic diseases and stuff that could affect the baby?
I didn't know much about my family's medical history at 15, I don't know though that point seems pretty weak.
There may be all kinds of things that could affect the baby in the future, I mean like we talk about how able she would be to cope with the baby on a maturity level, but also there's the help she'd need to actually support the baby, go through the pregnancy etc.

Also, where's the supposed father in all of this, does he have a right to know? I mean if she decides to go through with it (with or without the support of her mother) the father would probably be involved at some point.
and if he's young should his parents know?
There's all kinds of people that I could throw in at this stage but I reckon it's more of a if you let one person know how long would it be till everybody did? how would that affect the psychological welfare of the mother?
Underage pregnancy is a bit of a social taboo, she'd be looked down upon by other kids her age, I mean a lot of the kids I know would just ridicule her if they found out.
She'd have to be able to cope with that side of it too.
But you never know the mother could be a pillar of support and could really help. It's all down to the judgement of the doctor in the situation, and after all that raises another whole host of issues.
does the doctor have the right to judge the maturity of an individual who they've probably only met a handful of times when that person was probably not feeling their best.

I could be way off though i'm just spawning some ideas.
Reply 46
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kingme
17
Original post by Helenia
non-mah-leh-fi-sense. Fairly phonetic.

And those answers are definitely a good start! I'll leave it a bit and see if anyone else has anything else to offer before I give my thoughts (which are by no means the definitive answers).



I do!

The key issue here is whether or not to tell the mother. Because you are knee deep in it if you don't, and the patient might be if you do. All the advice about genetic diseases, safe sex etc should almost be presumed.

I thought if they are under 16, then the parent has a right to know. but everyone here is talking about fraser guidelines?

So, unless you have a reason to believe that by telling their mother you would be putting them in danger, they really should be told.

As for prostitution/abuse, you can only ask. And if you are still concerned, ask social services to look into it.
Original post by kingme
I do!

The key issue here is whether or not to tell the mother. Because you are knee deep in it if you don't, and the patient might be if you do. All the advice about genetic diseases, safe sex etc should almost be presumed.

I thought if they are under 16, then the parent has a right to know. but everyone here is talking about fraser guidelines?

So, unless you have a reason to believe that by telling their mother you would be putting them in danger, they really should be told.

As for prostitution/abuse, you can only ask. And if you are still concerned, ask social services to look into it.


Fraser guidelines come from a top level legal ruling, as do Gillick. Both rulings were in the 1980s but have never been overturned and set a precedent.

If you really feel the mother should know, try to persuade the girl that it will be practically impossible to hide the situation from her parents if she has the baby -whether she keeps it or goes for adoption- so it is best if they find out early, and she will need emotional support if she has an abortion which is usually best provided by her mum, even if it no substitute for professional intervention.

There could be a few reasons why she refuses to inform her parents: she wants to keep the baby and thinks they would insist on an abortion, so she prefers to wait until 20+ weeks; she is the victim of intrafamilial abuse (rarely, the mother may be complicit in this); she wants time to herself to consider the situation without family knowing. Ultimately, your duty is to treat the patient, not to keep the parent apprised of their daughter's situation.
Reply 48
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Doctor.
12
Thanks for the feedback on my comment :smile: much appreciated :biggrin:

I am not feeling these quick interviews at Liverpool....Anyone have any idea what they're like?


ALSO OMGGGGGGG I KNOW THE HEAD DEAN GUY AT LIVERPOOL :OOOOOOOOOOOO.

Not personally obviously. However a 5th year medic introduced me to him :redface:iooooooodbsnfsnsojsvdnejsnzdhakshsbddbdbansbsfb.
Reply 49
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kingme
17
Original post by ScheduleII
Fraser guidelines come from a top level legal ruling, as do Gillick. Both rulings were in the 1980s but have never been overturned and set a precedent.

If you really feel the mother should know, try to persuade the girl that it will be practically impossible to hide the situation from her parents if she has the baby -whether she keeps it or goes for adoption- so it is best if they find out early, and she will need emotional support if she has an abortion which is usually best provided by her mum, even if it no substitute for professional intervention.

There could be a few reasons why she refuses to inform her parents: she wants to keep the baby and thinks they would insist on an abortion, so she prefers to wait until 20+ weeks; she is the victim of intrafamilial abuse (rarely, the mother may be complicit in this); she wants time to herself to consider the situation without family knowing. Ultimately, your duty is to treat the patient, not to keep the parent apprised of their daughter's situation.


What are fraser guidelines? I just presumed minor=parents getting tellt.
Reply 50
Avatar for Doctor.
Doctor.
12
Original post by kingme
What are fraser guidelines? I just presumed minor=parents getting tellt.


No offense to people who know all about the law side of medicine....
Why would a 17/18/19 year old know that?!
Reply 51
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kingme
17
Original post by Doctor.
No offense to people who know all about the law side of medicine....
Why would a 17/18/19 year old know that?!


eh?
Reply 52
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Doctor.
12
"Fraser guidelines come from a top level legal ruling, as
do Gillick. Both rulings were in the 1980s but have
never been overturned and set a precedent."

I'm not sure but if I was an interviewer and heard something like this from a teenager....It just wouldn't sound right...

Maybe keep the legal side on the low and just talk about the moral/ethical stuff?

idk am I being stupid?
Reply 53
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kingme
17
Original post by Doctor.
idk am I being stupid?


nah, whenever i hear an applicant talk like that it just sounds stupid.

Mostly because it is evidently regurgited from wikipedia/otherwise engaged FY1, and therefore almost certainly not 100% true. But also it just sounds like they are trying waaay too hard.

There is no assumption of prior knowledge, you just need to show you are interested.
Original post by Doctor.
"Fraser guidelines come from a top level legal ruling, as
do Gillick. Both rulings were in the 1980s but have
never been overturned and set a precedent."

I'm not sure but if I was an interviewer and heard something like this from a teenager....It just wouldn't sound right...

Maybe keep the legal side on the low and just talk about the moral/ethical stuff?

idk am I being stupid?


I understand the law better than most people. I also understand way too much about CD's, A Cat jail, COPINEs, serial killers and incest. I'm been disabused and fascinated by extremity and responses to it (including the legal ones) for a few years now. I just wouldn't discuss it if it was not under appropriate circumstances.

As for my knowledge on this- Not from wiki, in fact from 2005 (aged 11) when I asked a teacher in my first year at senior school what the confidentiality they always talked about meant. She brought up Gillick and I found out about the Fraser ones from a GMC document I read one time. Is that even worse?

What about everyone else who mentioned Fraser before I did? Some of us might be revising these questions, which is the whole point of the thread...
Original post by kingme
What are fraser guidelines? I just presumed minor=parents getting tellt.


I can see why you might think that but it's not true and has not been for a very long time.
Reply 56
Avatar for Doctor.
Doctor.
12
Original post by ScheduleII
I understand the law better than most people. I also understand way too much about CD's, A Cat jail, COPINEs, serial killers and incest. I'm been disabused and fascinated by extremity and responses to it (including the legal ones) for a few years now. I just wouldn't discuss it if it was not under appropriate circumstances.

As for my knowledge on this- Not from wiki, in fact from 2005 (aged 11) when I asked a teacher in my first year at senior school what the confidentiality they always talked about meant. She brought up Gillick and I found out about the Fraser ones from a GMC document I read one time. Is that even worse?

What about everyone else who mentioned Fraser before I did? Some of us might be revising these questions, which is the whole point of the thread...


Fair enough if know your stuff...but it looks like your cut out to be a good lawyer.

Like from the stuff you say....if I was on an interview panel. I'd feel like you're looking for what I would consider the right answer is. That isn't the point of the interview. The person wants more like raw feeling....what would you actually want to do.... obviously make sure its suitible.

From what I understand, interviewers are not really looking for what is right. They want to genuinely know what you would do.

Sorry if I'm not making sense...it's late! :biggrin:
Reply 57
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kingme
17
Original post by ScheduleII
I can see why you might think that but it's not true and has not been for a very long time.


is there any cut off?

Original post by Doctor.
Like from the stuff you say....if I was on an interview panel. I'd feel like you're looking for what I would consider the right answer is. That isn't the point of the interview. The person wants more like raw feeling....what would you actually want to do.... obviously make sure its suitible.


^this. I was going to say something along the lines of 'boy in daddy's suit'. yours is better.
Original post by kingme
is there any cut off?



Under 13 is generally too young to be competent. Then if the girl says she has a boyfriend or has been raped by a non-family member, social services would need informing and the parents would have to know. If the girl is unwilling to answer questions about the baby's father and/or there is a history of symptoms suggesting a possibility of long-term abuse (idiopathic headaches, stomach pain, genital or anal injury etc) then child protection measures must be put in place, as a family member could have caused the pregnancy. Then a Strategy Meeting may be held BEFORE informing the parents while the child's safety is assured.

A reticent young girl doesn't always mean something up at home though. She could just think the boy will get into trouble, or think herself in love with a much older boy/man and not want him to be arrested.
Original post by ScheduleII
I'm anti-abortion, what is the best way to explain my view if asked about it? When I was getting my PS reviewed and UCAS sent off today the guidance officer asked me how I'd respond to something that was against my faith.
Would saying it was the unjust annihilation of human life and thus against the principles of medicine (specifically non-maleficence) be a suitable way of phrasing it? I wouldn't use words like "murder" or "sinful" in case I got a pro-choice interviewer who put a huge red flag against my name


Our school had a 'how to get into med school' talk last year, and the speaker was a member of UCLs admissions team. He said that interviews genuinely don't care about what you think about certain issues. its about how you argue your case that counts. In fact, because most people applying for university aren't that religious, the interviewers have been known to pose as die-hard catholics (or something similar) to make you feel 'on-edge' and to see how well you argue your points.

In conclusion, express your views freely, no one will give a **** about them :smile:

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