Protestor Wants Free Stuff But Can't Explain Why
Hey guys,
Watch this video it's pretty funny
Video
YES I KNOW HE'S JUST ONE PERSON, but I think he speaks for a sizeable chunk of the protestors, and people who sympathise with them. I'm of the opinion you should only be able to have your degree on the taxpayer's dime if you're going to give it back to the taxpayer by being something like a teacher, nurse, doctor, dentist, armed forces officer, or an engineer pioneering British industry.
These whiny kids who want three years' lounging about getting bungalowed and learning some wishy-washy humanities stuff, I have little sympathy for.
Thoughts?
Watch this video it's pretty funny
Video
YES I KNOW HE'S JUST ONE PERSON, but I think he speaks for a sizeable chunk of the protestors, and people who sympathise with them. I'm of the opinion you should only be able to have your degree on the taxpayer's dime if you're going to give it back to the taxpayer by being something like a teacher, nurse, doctor, dentist, armed forces officer, or an engineer pioneering British industry.
These whiny kids who want three years' lounging about getting bungalowed and learning some wishy-washy humanities stuff, I have little sympathy for.
Thoughts?
Scroll to see replies
You're thick if you think people who've studied humanities aren't worth anything.
Original post by JCC-MGS
You're thick if you think people who've studied humanities aren't worth anything.
I don't think they aren't worth anything, I just think that while it is intellectually improving them, the benefits back to the taxpayer aren't as tangible.
Original post by DirtyPrettyThing
I don't think they aren't worth anything, I just think that while it is intellectually improving them, the benefits back to the taxpayer aren't as tangible.
You think people in media and advertising who help to keep consumerism high don't contribute to the economy? Or people in the tourism sector? Or people in PR? They contribute a lot more economically than, say, dentistry. Dentistry is vitally important but in terms of progressing the economy these humanities-based sectors are more beneficial than a scientific one. All areas of society are important and need good people.
Typical Labour supporter heh heh.
Original post by DirtyPrettyThing
I don't think they aren't worth anything, I just think that while it is intellectually improving them, the benefits back to the taxpayer aren't as tangible.
It seems ridiculous to write off the humanities as if they all have no benefit to the wider public and are only of interest to the people studying them. I can only defend my own course (archaeology), but I'm sure that there will be many others who wish to defend theirs. If I find something of significance, it's not just me who wants to know, it's everyone. People will always be interested when an incredible find is revealed on the news, or if there's a particularly good episode of Time Team on, the public want to know what the impact of the Romans, Vikings, Normans and Saxons were, they think they have a right to know as it's their heritage. I've worked on several sites now, and at every single one the first thing passers-by want to know is where they'll be able to find the results of the research - it's in the national interest after all. But when it comes to training new people to actually uncover this heritage suddenly nobody wants to know, and then it's apparently only of interest to the person actually studying it - it's no longer in the national interest. This is the old habit of wanting something for nothing. There's an innate contradiction in demanding that it's the public's right to know the full results of a study, but passing the cost of this off as the researcher's own and not the public's.
Furthermore, if the education that I was provided made me reasonably wealthy, I would be more than happy to repay the public through my higher income taxes. The UK is lagging dangerously behind on this, in several European countries they can study a full undergraduate course, masters and PhD, all free of charge - their economies aren't suffering for this, and they are churning out first class researchers. These academics are free to move around the world, maybe even move into the UK itself, making things even harder for the UK's own academics. The UK is dangerously close to finding itself losing ground on other European countries and their research, simply because research in the UK is underfunded and has something of a glass ceiling.
Original post by JCC-MGS
You think people in media and advertising who help to keep consumerism high don't contribute to the economy? Or people in the tourism sector? Or people in PR? They contribute a lot more economically than, say, dentistry. Dentistry is vitally important but in terms of progressing the economy these humanities-based sectors are more beneficial than a scientific one. All areas of society are important and need good people.
By sales you mean telemarketing as that is where a vast number end up, and that contributes very little to the economy, but more importantly, those employees DO NOT NEED a degree to do that job thus have wasted money and time.
Original post by DirtyPrettyThing
I don't think they aren't worth anything, I just think that while it is intellectually improving them, the benefits back to the taxpayer aren't as tangible.
Jobs from humanities degrees exist; market economics tells us that the proportion of humanities students will be in proportion to the jobs available after.
Universities do not offer as many humanities places as they know these graduates are less likely to get a job and so their employment figures will suffer. Therefore supply is limited whether applicants are far-sighted or not.
Original post by Craig_D
It seems ridiculous to write off the humanities as if they all have no benefit to the wider public and are only of interest to the people studying them. I can only defend my own course (archaeology), but I'm sure that there will be many others who wish to defend theirs. If I find something of significance, it's not just me who wants to know, it's everyone. People will always be interested when an incredible find is revealed on the news, or if there's a particularly good episode of Time Team on, the public want to know what the impact of the Romans, Vikings, Normans and Saxons were, they think they have a right to know as it's their heritage. I've worked on several sites now, and at every single one the first thing passers-by want to know is where they'll be able to find the results of the research - it's in the national interest after all. But when it comes to training new people to actually uncover this heritage suddenly nobody wants to know, and then it's apparently only of interest to the person actually studying it - it's no longer in the national interest. This is the old habit of wanting something for nothing. There's an innate contradiction in demanding that it's the public's right to know the full results of a study, but passing the cost of this off as the researcher's own and not the public's.
Furthermore, if the education that I was provided made me reasonably wealthy, I would be more than happy to repay the public through my higher income taxes. The UK is lagging dangerously behind on this, in several European countries they can study a full undergraduate course, masters and PhD, all free of charge - their economies aren't suffering for this, and they are churning out first class researchers. These academics are free to move around the world, maybe even move into the UK itself, making things even harder for the UK's own academics. The UK is dangerously close to finding itself losing ground on other European countries and their research, simply because research in the UK is underfunded and has something of a glass ceiling.
Furthermore, if the education that I was provided made me reasonably wealthy, I would be more than happy to repay the public through my higher income taxes. The UK is lagging dangerously behind on this, in several European countries they can study a full undergraduate course, masters and PhD, all free of charge - their economies aren't suffering for this, and they are churning out first class researchers. These academics are free to move around the world, maybe even move into the UK itself, making things even harder for the UK's own academics. The UK is dangerously close to finding itself losing ground on other European countries and their research, simply because research in the UK is underfunded and has something of a glass ceiling.
Many people dream of a career in Archeology. Probably much more than those who actually pursue it. I would venture that a good many of those sadly choose a career they personally find less rewarding because they believe they will earn more money. You have your priorities and they have theirs. For the record I think your choice the wiser. Anytime someone suggests taxes should provide entitlements, they are ultimately saying that those who have more money must provide it to those who have less.
Let's consider our imaginary banker who always wanted to be an archeologist. He chose to sacrifice that dream for money. Since he now has more money he must contribute to pay for your education, because you have little. Can you now put some of your job satisfaction in a bottle and share it with him? Would you feel obliged to do so if you could? He made his sacrifice and you made yours. If you can achieve both ends with your career it must be by persuading the market to recognize your value, and not mandate the community supplement it.
Original post by DirtyPrettyThing
Hey guys,
Watch this video it's pretty funny
Video
YES I KNOW HE'S JUST ONE PERSON, but I think he speaks for a sizeable chunk of the protestors, and people who sympathise with them. I'm of the opinion you should only be able to have your degree on the taxpayer's dime if you're going to give it back to the taxpayer by being something like a teacher, nurse, doctor, dentist, armed forces officer, or an engineer pioneering British industry.
These whiny kids who want three years' lounging about getting bungalowed and learning some wishy-washy humanities stuff, I have little sympathy for.
Thoughts?
Watch this video it's pretty funny
Video
YES I KNOW HE'S JUST ONE PERSON, but I think he speaks for a sizeable chunk of the protestors, and people who sympathise with them. I'm of the opinion you should only be able to have your degree on the taxpayer's dime if you're going to give it back to the taxpayer by being something like a teacher, nurse, doctor, dentist, armed forces officer, or an engineer pioneering British industry.
These whiny kids who want three years' lounging about getting bungalowed and learning some wishy-washy humanities stuff, I have little sympathy for.
Thoughts?
It's easy to find people in any protest who just have been swept up, though resorting to the 'free speech, I can say what I want' was amusing
The people who start these protests will have the strongest motive, the strongest arguments and the most reasoned approach. Those who only join in later on because the goals of the protest are desirable will be the easiest for reporters to pick on - I wonder how many people the reporter had to speak to to get that response, that would be a more accurate representation of whether people are protesting out of selfishness or a sense of justice (of course, you could say this is tinged with selfishness too, but you know what I mean).
Original post by ckingalt
Many people dream of a career in Archeology. Probably much more than those who actually pursue it. I would venture that a good many of those sadly choose a career they personally find less rewarding because they believe they will earn more money. You have your priorities and they have theirs. For the record I think your choice the wiser. Anytime someone suggests taxes should provide entitlements, they are ultimately saying that those who have more money must provide it to those who have less.
Let's consider our imaginary banker who always wanted to be an archeologist. He chose to sacrifice that dream for money. Since he now has more money he must contribute to pay for your education, because you have little. Can you now put some of your job satisfaction in a bottle and share it with him? Would you feel obliged to do so if you could? He made his sacrifice and you made yours. If you can achieve both ends with your career it must be by persuading the market to recognize your value, and not mandate the community supplement it.
Let's consider our imaginary banker who always wanted to be an archeologist. He chose to sacrifice that dream for money. Since he now has more money he must contribute to pay for your education, because you have little. Can you now put some of your job satisfaction in a bottle and share it with him? Would you feel obliged to do so if you could? He made his sacrifice and you made yours. If you can achieve both ends with your career it must be by persuading the market to recognize your value, and not mandate the community supplement it.
The difference though is that our banker has taken a job which only benefits him, the archaeologist's job benefits everyone who takes an interest in that area of research, which is usually a relatively high number of people in the region. I genuinely think that to a large extent archaeology is a public service, it's preserving and discovering the heritage of the people, for the people. What's more, we get paid mere pennies for doing it.
To some extent the banker does get that bottle of job satisfaction from the archaeologist, as he can sit down and read or watch on the television the work that other people have done - he could even take a week off and volunteer at a local site, excavation isn't limited to those who do it professionally. He gets the benefit of getting to find out (usually for free) everything that I, the archaeologist, found out, yet he can also go back to the bank on Monday morning and earn a potentially £100K salary. On the other hand, what direct benefit do I take from his work? These days not even a stable economy, I certainly don't get an account with free money in it, they're mostly working simply for themselves.
I'm a centrist at heart and I'm not trying to step to the left here, I respect the banking profession and all those who wish to be successful and reap the rewards of their own success. I can understand the concerns of those who don't want their taxes paying for the educations of others but I'm in two minds about it. I don't think there is truth in suggesting that paying for the education of others doesn't have any resulting personal benefit, because it can - an important point that I would also like to make is that when done correctly I think archaeology can make a return and pay for itself (and there should be an emphasis on doing so), so it doesn't have to be an economic burden. As I say, I'm also prepared to put aside a percentage of my own wages to help those in a similar position. The archaeologists themselves will make sacrifices to make the contribution that they do, but I think that a society itself must consider sacrifices to invest in its own culture, because it is enriched by doing so, an effect that we all benefit from.
(edited 12 years ago)
odd smear campaign is odd....
I just cant believe the amount of hate those peaceful protesters are getting... :/
I just cant believe the amount of hate those peaceful protesters are getting... :/
To be fair there's a difference between a car and an education. However, i do agree that those that espouse a something for nothing culture are frankly disgusting.
To be honest, if I was the kid and I just got pounced by someone who has obviously done a lot of research and who's job it is just to make me look stupid. I'd look pretty dumb as well.
Edit: Then again if I was going to protest I'd make sure I know why I'm protesting.
Edit: Then again if I was going to protest I'd make sure I know why I'm protesting.
(edited 12 years ago)
Original post by Joinedup
People see Blair and the cleggeron got their degree tuition paid for by the taxpayer, then in power they turn around and pull the ladder up behind them.
Why wouldn't you moan about that if you hadn't got a degree yet?
Why wouldn't you moan about that if you hadn't got a degree yet?
Because the country is considerably less financially stable now and we simply cannot afford to pay for everyone's degree. (And this comes from somebody who is probably going to have to pay the full £9000)
Original post by Darkphilosopher
Because the country is considerably less financially stable now and we simply cannot afford to pay for everyone's degree. (And this comes from somebody who is probably going to have to pay the full £9000)
Bit of a false economy there really. In some ways, we can't not afford to pay for everyone's degree (double negative, hoo har) - each drop in education is just another drop in the economy in five year's time. Plus it means universities won't grow as quickly, won't spend as much money on salaries, construction etc. and thus it'll have an immediate slowdown on the economy, plus students have lots of disposable income usually, hence having a few of them around tends to be a good stimulus!
And since when were humanities degrees a waste of time? Most of the politicians, media personalities, big businessmen and so on have a degree in the humanities (if anything), not the sciences. Nearly all graduates have a hard time getting employment at the very start, it's not a problem restricted to arts degree students.
Original post by DirtyPrettyThing
Hey guys,
Watch this video it's pretty funny
Video
YES I KNOW HE'S JUST ONE PERSON, but I think he speaks for a sizeable chunk of the protestors, and people who sympathise with them. I'm of the opinion you should only be able to have your degree on the taxpayer's dime if you're going to give it back to the taxpayer by being something like a teacher, nurse, doctor, dentist, armed forces officer, or an engineer pioneering British industry.
These whiny kids who want three years' lounging about getting bungalowed and learning some wishy-washy humanities stuff, I have little sympathy for.
Thoughts?
Watch this video it's pretty funny
Video
YES I KNOW HE'S JUST ONE PERSON, but I think he speaks for a sizeable chunk of the protestors, and people who sympathise with them. I'm of the opinion you should only be able to have your degree on the taxpayer's dime if you're going to give it back to the taxpayer by being something like a teacher, nurse, doctor, dentist, armed forces officer, or an engineer pioneering British industry.
These whiny kids who want three years' lounging about getting bungalowed and learning some wishy-washy humanities stuff, I have little sympathy for.
Thoughts?
With logic and an argument like that you could have benefited from doing a humanities degree.
Original post by Aeschylus
With logic and an argument like that you could have benefited from doing a humanities degree.
I normally steer well clear of humanities vs. science crap, but this thread makes me glad I chose humanities in the end.
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