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Pooling at Oxford
At oxford you are "pooled" during your 3/4 day period... is this "pooling" based on academic strength and lack of places at your chosen college, or a way of standardising interviewer's views on either candidates, or their own standards?
Surely it must be done to make sure that interviewers are asking the same questions etc, because there isnt time (unlike cambridge) for the tutors to sit back and say " well he was a nice chap ,lets stick him in the pool" - all decisions must be directly after the interview to stop the candidate going back home?
Can someone help me understand please?
Surely it must be done to make sure that interviewers are asking the same questions etc, because there isnt time (unlike cambridge) for the tutors to sit back and say " well he was a nice chap ,lets stick him in the pool" - all decisions must be directly after the interview to stop the candidate going back home?
Can someone help me understand please?
Scroll to see replies
Toscar
At oxford you are "pooled" during your 3/4 day period... is this "pooling" based on academic strength and lack of places at your chosen college, or a way of standardising interviewer's views on either candidates, or their own standards?
Surely it must be done to make sure that interviewers are asking the same questions etc, because there isnt time (unlike cambridge) for the tutors to sit back and say " well he was a nice chap ,lets stick him in the pool" - all decisions must be directly after the interview to stop the candidate going back home?
Can someone help me understand please?
Surely it must be done to make sure that interviewers are asking the same questions etc, because there isnt time (unlike cambridge) for the tutors to sit back and say " well he was a nice chap ,lets stick him in the pool" - all decisions must be directly after the interview to stop the candidate going back home?
Can someone help me understand please?
It isn't pooling in the same sense as Cambridge. You have your interviews at your first choice college, and then i believe any college is allowed to invite you for an interview. This seems to be done almost randomlly since they only get to see your application to decide and there is very little to distinguish between applicants at this level. The college you apply to has very little control over extra interviews as far as i know, i'm not sure whether they may actually reccommend some students or not. However, as i said the other colleges can almost pick and choose who they interview.
I think most tutors know very quickly if they want to offer a place to someone, though there maybe some discussion between dfiferent interviewers, but i am told they more often than not agree with each other entirely.
The colleges then decide who they would like to make offers to and who is on their back up list. If a case arises where two colleges are interested in making an offer then they will have a discussion soon after interviews to decide who gets them. Often first choice colleges give up candidates they wanted so that they can get more of their own applicants into Oxford. I know that Hertford does this for geography since i applied there, and they called us down a day early especially so that other colleges could have a look at us. The admissions tutor at Hertford says it his job to get as many of his applicants into the university as possible, so is willing to let other colleges have them even if he wanted them himself, so he can make offers to someone else.
Some subjects pool everyone automatically, particularly those like Human Sciences that only take a small number of pupils, to standardise the level of the applicants (in case one college has a crop of geniuses, and another total duds - exageration, btw 
) across the universities. if you were pooled to another college, it may have been automatic, picked at random.
Some subjects don't have tiem to pool (English, I believe), so if you were pooled for a very popular subject, it may be that you original college wasn't sure about you and thought you would benefit from another interview.
When you get an interview report (assuming you've already applied), there might be some explanation of the pooling that went on in your subject if this had any affect on your application.
) across the universities. if you were pooled to another college, it may have been automatic, picked at random.Some subjects don't have tiem to pool (English, I believe), so if you were pooled for a very popular subject, it may be that you original college wasn't sure about you and thought you would benefit from another interview.
When you get an interview report (assuming you've already applied), there might be some explanation of the pooling that went on in your subject if this had any affect on your application.
For biology, everyone had an interview at their first choice college, and then another at a different college. These were supposedly allocated at random (by the department) but I had a lurking suspicion that they weren't. For example, there were 8 biologists who had applied to, and were interviewed at Pembroke. As far as I know, three of us were from state schools. Two of us had our second interview at Somerville, (one that I'm told is big on the widening-access from state schools thing.) The other girl was sent to St. Hildas. One boy from a very well known private school was sent to New College for his second interview. This was about the "poshest" college of the seven that did second interviews. So, I suspect that somewhere along the line, one of the biology staff has tried to be helpful, and allocated us to colleges that we would stand the best possible chance at.
The same happened for biochemistry....we all had an interview at our 1st choice college, and we all had a 2nd interview at an allocated college....maybe in the case of biology they tried to send people to colleges where each would have the best chance....but that wasnt the case in Biochem...i was sent to Christ Church!!! i was crapping myself! (not literally!) I thought they were sending me there because they knew i wouldn’t stand a chance, so they thought they'd give me a rough ride for wasting their time by applying, in the end this seemed to be the "better" interview out of the 2 ( and obviously their motives for placing me at ChCh were not what i thought! )This "pooling" system is almost nothing like the one at Cambridge.
If you get interviewed at more than one college depends on many things like subject, number of applicants etc and probably changes from year to year.
The thing i would say is dont read into it....
i.e at Jesus there was 29 Chem applicants; 6 only had interviews at Jesus, 13 had a second interview and the remaining 10 had 3/4 interviews!
Applicants from each group were rejected and accepted, so it really doesnt mean that if you have lots/hardly any interviews you will defiantly get a place/rejection. i personally think they do it to throw us off the scent!
chocolatecheese The same happened for biochemistry....we all had an interview at our 1st choice college, and we all had a 2nd interview at an allocated college....maybe in the case of biology they tried to send people to colleges where each would have the best chance....but that wasnt the case in Biochem...i was sent to Christ Church!!! i was crapping myself! (not literally!) I thought they were sending me there because they knew i wouldn’t stand a chance, so they thought they'd give me a rough ride for wasting their time by applying, in the end this seemed to be the "better" interview out of the 2 ( and obviously their motives for placing me at ChCh were not what i thought! )
The same happened for biochemistry....we all had an interview at our 1st choice college, and we all had a 2nd interview at an allocated college....maybe in the case of biology they tried to send people to colleges where each would have the best chance....but that wasnt the case in Biochem...i was sent to Christ Church!!! i was crapping myself! (not literally!) I thought they were sending me there because they knew i wouldn’t stand a chance, so they thought they'd give me a rough ride for wasting their time by applying, in the end this seemed to be the "better" interview out of the 2 ( and obviously their motives for placing me at ChCh were not what i thought! )Biochemistry utilise "smart allocation" for pooling apparently (so says the Working Party on Admissions report that just came out) so it should have just been the least over subscribed college!
Toscar - as you can tell from the answers although its definitely different to Cambridge it also differs with subject (& perhaps even college) too.
e.g. for my subject everyone has interviews at a 2nd college "blind" of where you actually applied to so it's sort of a standardisation measure to ensure that college of application shouldn't have any effect on the chance of getting an offer from the university as a whole, especially with "Open offers" being utilised too.
so might help if you specified a subject..?
(or depending when you're applying pooling for a university offer might be redundant if the centralising measures are approved!
)I was just asking because my friend applied last year for history at jesus, and was pooled and then rejected. This year he applied to queens ox, and I don't know the outcome (and don't want to know if it is bad news). I was just wondering whether he had been misguided in what the oxford pool is for, and may have reapplied thinking he was in a stronger position than he may have been. Obviously I am aware that being pooled one year and not still not getting in the next is possible, and that he was up against several brilliant new candidates, who may have been luckier/performed at interview better etc , so in summary, i wanted to check for myself that he hadnt been given false hope by being sent around the colleges, as otherwise i would find myself getting very indignant on his behalf.
Completely depends on the subject. I was PPE, and most people were only interviewed at St Johns. Three were sent to other colleges for interview (which I have now found out meant they were 'pooled' in the way that Cambridge does it - as in strong enough for Oxford but edged out at St John's), two of them got in at that other college (St Annes or St Peters). Three had another interview at St Johns, of which one was made an offer at St Johns, another was pooled to another college, and the other was rejected.
They kept on telling us not to read too much into what was happening though. Apparently, some subjects have second interview colleges as standard, while some don't. Being pooled does not necessarily mean you were borderline at your first choice college either - apparently in some subjects the strongest applicant at a particular college is pooled as standard so that all colleges get a sense of how strong other applicants are. Completely depends.
I wouldn't say the system gives 'false hope' - just tries to get as many of the better candidates into Oxford as possible without the drawn out hassle of the Cambridge pooling mess.
They kept on telling us not to read too much into what was happening though. Apparently, some subjects have second interview colleges as standard, while some don't. Being pooled does not necessarily mean you were borderline at your first choice college either - apparently in some subjects the strongest applicant at a particular college is pooled as standard so that all colleges get a sense of how strong other applicants are. Completely depends.
I wouldn't say the system gives 'false hope' - just tries to get as many of the better candidates into Oxford as possible without the drawn out hassle of the Cambridge pooling mess.
Angelil
Do people applying for postgrad courses ever get pooled, given that interviews aren't given for Masters? (Just so that I know for future ref!)
in terms of college?
yeah, i'm pretty sure they do (based on hearsay & what's happening for clinical medicine!
) - because post grad applications are to the department & research group, not handled via a college for a subject as the vast majority of UG are. so although you can express preference for a college (or two!), the initial offer is like an UG "open offer" whereby you're guaranteed a place but your college is to be confirmed later on...
Elles
in terms of college?
yeah, i'm pretty sure they do (based on hearsay & what's happening for clinical medicine! ) - because post grad applications are to the department & research group, not handled via a college for a subject as the vast majority of UG are.
so although you can express preference for a college (or two!), the initial offer is like an UG "open offer" whereby you're guaranteed a place but your college is to be confirmed later on...
yeah, i'm pretty sure they do (based on hearsay & what's happening for clinical medicine!
) - because post grad applications are to the department & research group, not handled via a college for a subject as the vast majority of UG are. so although you can express preference for a college (or two!), the initial offer is like an UG "open offer" whereby you're guaranteed a place but your college is to be confirmed later on...
ahhh OK. Cheers.
I know for the maths subject group (inc. compsci) that everyone has interviews at at least two colleges, your first choice, and an allocated one (presumably an undersubscribed one). After each interview, the tutors write up a report which is added to your application details on the university wide database, along with GCSEs AS/A levels etc, maths test score. Your application is then given a ranking. Other colleges can look at the reports and pick out people who they want to interview. I got the impression that this system was used for quite a few subjects, but i may be wrong.
In theory, anyone could be picked out of the database, regardless of whether their first choice college was interested in them, too. (they'd fight over you if necessary, later on), but i was told that if the tutors can't take you but think you're worthy of a place somewhere, they'll put extra shine on your reports to make sure another college will have a look at you. This is what colleges mean when they say they are very sucessful at placing good candidates that they can't take elsewhere in the university.
In the recent proposals to reform the admissions system, making this automatic second interview system the norm, across all subjects was a second option, rather than centralising the whole process, and is the one that is most likely to be adopted, i suspect.
In theory, anyone could be picked out of the database, regardless of whether their first choice college was interested in them, too. (they'd fight over you if necessary, later on), but i was told that if the tutors can't take you but think you're worthy of a place somewhere, they'll put extra shine on your reports to make sure another college will have a look at you. This is what colleges mean when they say they are very sucessful at placing good candidates that they can't take elsewhere in the university.
In the recent proposals to reform the admissions system, making this automatic second interview system the norm, across all subjects was a second option, rather than centralising the whole process, and is the one that is most likely to be adopted, i suspect.
I think I ended up in quite an unusual situation but I applied to LMH then got second interviews at St. Hilda's (which i wasn't happy about but I guess it was always on the cards as I'm a girl applying for French and German-there specialist languages), out of everyone that applied to LMH only another girl and me got second interviews both at St Hilda's. The runners explained to us that second interviews either meant that the tutors wanted to check the standard of applicants across the university or because the first college couldn't offer you a place so they thought someone else should look at you.
What was wierd in my case was that a few days after I got home from Oxford I got a phone call from Pembroke asking me to come back to another interview, and at the end (of what was an hour and a half interview) the tutor said that i had impressed people the week before and that was why I got called back. I haven't met anyone who's heard of this happening before! I guess tutors can do what they want to some extent because they know how much you want the place!
What was wierd in my case was that a few days after I got home from Oxford I got a phone call from Pembroke asking me to come back to another interview, and at the end (of what was an hour and a half interview) the tutor said that i had impressed people the week before and that was why I got called back. I haven't met anyone who's heard of this happening before! I guess tutors can do what they want to some extent because they know how much you want the place!
The Oxford pooling system has the same purpose as the Cambridge one. It's just that it is done differently.
At Cambridge if there are too many good people for a particular college the a certain number are given offers and weaker applicants are put in the pool. During the two weeks following the results day, other colleges can pick people out of the pool, making their own selection and invite people for further interviews in January.
At Oxford, the applicants can be re-allocated to undersubscribed colleges. I'm not sure whether it's the faculty or the college that does the re-allocating. The second colleges don't get a choice of who they interview. It operates more like open applicants. However, this is done within the 3/4 day interview period at the beginning of December and before any results are sent out.
Anyone applying a second time has exactly the same chances and opportunities as they do the first time. I don't believe that the different pooling systems work for or against anyone.
At Cambridge if there are too many good people for a particular college the a certain number are given offers and weaker applicants are put in the pool. During the two weeks following the results day, other colleges can pick people out of the pool, making their own selection and invite people for further interviews in January.
At Oxford, the applicants can be re-allocated to undersubscribed colleges. I'm not sure whether it's the faculty or the college that does the re-allocating. The second colleges don't get a choice of who they interview. It operates more like open applicants. However, this is done within the 3/4 day interview period at the beginning of December and before any results are sent out.
Anyone applying a second time has exactly the same chances and opportunities as they do the first time. I don't believe that the different pooling systems work for or against anyone.
HannahZ
The Oxford pooling system has the same purpose as the Cambridge one. It's just that it is done differently.
At Cambridge if there are too many good people for a particular college the a certain number are given offers and weaker applicants are put in the pool. During the two weeks following the results day, other colleges can pick people out of the pool, making their own selection and invite people for further interviews in January.
At Oxford, the applicants can be re-allocated to undersubscribed colleges. I'm not sure whether it's the faculty or the college that does the re-allocating. The second colleges don't get a choice of who they interview. It operates more like open applicants. However, this is done within the 3/4 day interview period at the beginning of December and before any results are sent out.
Anyone applying a second time has exactly the same chances and opportunities as they do the first time. I don't believe that the different pooling systems work for or against anyone.
At Cambridge if there are too many good people for a particular college the a certain number are given offers and weaker applicants are put in the pool. During the two weeks following the results day, other colleges can pick people out of the pool, making their own selection and invite people for further interviews in January.
At Oxford, the applicants can be re-allocated to undersubscribed colleges. I'm not sure whether it's the faculty or the college that does the re-allocating. The second colleges don't get a choice of who they interview. It operates more like open applicants. However, this is done within the 3/4 day interview period at the beginning of December and before any results are sent out.
Anyone applying a second time has exactly the same chances and opportunities as they do the first time. I don't believe that the different pooling systems work for or against anyone.
It seems that the pooling systems vary wildly from subject to subject, as this description is completely different to what i was told about for maths (see my post above).
Elles
Biochemistry utilise "smart allocation" for pooling apparently (so says the Working Party on Admissions report that just came out) so it should have just been the least over subscribed college!
that’s what i thought
....there’s nothing suspicious in it, like sending better candidates to better colleges for second interviews etc, .... like you say, the system they use just sends you to the least over subscribed colleges, which i think is a very good idea...(NB to future applicants...don’t read into statistics! they change every year!)the thing i learnt at interview is not to make judgments over something you dont actually know about (sounds pretty obvious lol)....but i thought that the ChCh interview would be horrible, ie. its a "superior" college so they are going to give me a really hard time...bla bla blaaa...but it wasn't
The statistics in the prospectus are averaged over three years and so provide a fairly good indication as to the truth. To what extent such statistics are significant, viz pooling, is a matter for debate.
I still would strongly recommend not taking into account the statistics, as they still don’t guarantee what will happen regards to the year you apply. Take Jesus college for example...they normally have 1.9 applicants per place for about 4-6 places to study Chemistry (ok not too sure on the exact number of places but that doesn't matter ) this year, 29 people applied. This is not reflected by past statistics and there are many other examples of over subscribed and under subscribed subjects at colleges that don’t reflect what is showed in the stats. Yes, the stats may give a hint as to roughly how many applicants they receive over 3 years, but its not wise to make your college choice based on that....apply to somewhere you really like, regardless of the stats
well, that’s my opinion! lol
) this year, 29 people applied. This is not reflected by past statistics and there are many other examples of over subscribed and under subscribed subjects at colleges that don’t reflect what is showed in the stats. Yes, the stats may give a hint as to roughly how many applicants they receive over 3 years, but its not wise to make your college choice based on that....apply to somewhere you really like, regardless of the stats well, that’s my opinion! lol
The way it worked for me is I didn't get into my first choice college (ChCh) which was hugely oversubscribed, but got into a fairly popular college anyway (Jesus) despite being interviewed at two less popular colleges (St Peter's and St Hugh's). Basically, it's tricky to try and second guess the system...
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