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    (Original post by viviki)
    Guardian teaching stats are completely different.
    They didn't list Bradford in the top ten for Politics either though, and that was the point that somebody was trying to make.

    http://education.guardian.co.uk/high...665247,00.html
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    (Original post by viviki)
    Nope you can do politics at most universities but some specialise in certain things and Bradfords is politics.
    John Prescott did a diploma in politics and economics at Oxford, David Blunkett read political theory at Sheffield, paul Murphy read and lectured politics prior to becoming an MP, Andrew Smith has a BA in PPE at Oxford, Peter Hain did politics. Thats just to name just a few and they are in the cabinet, if you go through all the MPs I'm sure that you will find it significantly more add to that political civil servants and political journalists and you will find that politcs is an extremely valid subject.
    Thing is, I've never actually said that Politics isn't a valid subject anyway. I said that i didn't know much about what it involved and that I didn't know any politicians who'd done politics, which you have told me about. I was thinking more of straight politics btw rather than PPE and the like. Infact I recall saying that it would be 'fine' doing politics at a redbrick
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    Actually, aren't there degrees in almost everything now? Right up to a degree in harry potter I think.
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    (Original post by viviki)
    Run mock news rooms find and write and produce their own stories, she has to make a documentary, and the undergrads learn shorthand which is pretty difficult. I doubt that you could just walk into those exams and pass.
    How is that worthy of beung an academic field of study??? Couldn't you have some type of apprentice scheme where you watch someone in the field doing the job, so you see the REAL thing. The added bonus here is you will be making contacts too, contacts that ould land you your job. And isn't shorthand for secretaries??
    I wish a journalist would walk into say an English lit exam, and a Media exam at uni, and see what he/she gets in both. That would be interesting. BTW I said it was much more likely that I would pass the media exam, although admittedly i was thinking of a-levels here.
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    (Original post by BossLady)
    Did you actually read my post before comenting or just browse it? I said it wasn't neccessary to have english as a degree to be a writer. Please stop being dense, it's as if you're trying to find ammunition but can't, so make up what I've just said. But, whether you like it or not, having a degree in English might actually help you be a better writer, whereas Media studies as a degree is very very very unlikely to help you get into the media.

    It seems highly coincidental that the first degree course of Media I came across offered a module in Popular music don't you think? If I bothered to look, I'm sure others would reveal just as silly modules.

    You can try and convince yourself that I'm narrow minded if it makes you feel better, but there are thousands of people who feel the same as me and remain unconvinced by media studies as an academic field. I have not just suddenly dismissed the course as you seem to think, I have tried before to understand why people think it should be studied academically, but their arguments have been a bit pathetic tbh. And forgoodness sake I said one comment that was slightly patronising and suddenly I am the devil. lol, get over it, it's harsh but true.

    Media seems to be one of those subjects people will take because they think that it will be a "doss" degree, an easy ride to some letetrs after your name and a fun time. Now, this may be a misconception, but if you really do study important structures + techniques and if these people are interested in that stuff, why don't they just choose English lit instead? It covers that and delves much further. It is more established and dare I say it...yes I shall....CREDIBLE.
    I never made out you were "the devil" or anything like that. Besides, the narrow minded and patronising comment was aimed at many, many people on this board so don't take it so personally dear.

    Maybe people don't do English Lit because *gasp* they like media better. I personally love reading books, but I always found English Lit. as a subject boring. Media isn't just about analysing the texts, it's about the wider contexts and the impact that media has on society- some of it is more sociology than literature, and those are the parts that I tend to enjoy the most. A lot of the analysis I actually find quite boring for the same reasons that I found English Lit. boring.

    And maybe other people's arguments have been pathetic, but hey, so have yours. Have you actually looked at what's involved in the popular music module, or have you just assumed that it'll be students sitting around listening to music and so it must be worthless. Other media degrees probably do offer modules in poplar music, that doesn't mean that they whole degree is worthless.

    Saying that people just take media because they think it's a doss subject is an offensive generalisation. How many people studying media do you know in order to make that assumption? Because everybody I've met who wants to study media wants to do it because they're interested in the subject.
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    (Original post by Tinykates)
    exactly, and that is why they should be ignored. those typeof people are not people people
    Ignored I suspect because you can't say anything against good arguments? Come on, you're supposed to be learning worthwhile skills in media and the like, some of those supposedly useful skills must be applicable here (reasoning, debate, analysis)! lol, or maybe that isn't quite what you learn on one of these courses..... :cool:
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    (Original post by BossLady)
    Ignored I suspect because you can't say anything against good arguments? Come on, you're supposed to be learning worthwhile skills in media and the like, some of those supposedly useful skills must be applicable here (reasoning, debate, analysis)! lol, or maybe that isn't quite what you learn on one of these courses..... :cool:
    or maybe it's 12.35am
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    (Original post by Frances)
    They didn't list Bradford in the top ten for Politics either though, and that was the point that somebody was trying to make.

    http://education.guardian.co.uk/high...665247,00.html
    I'm positive I've read it somewhere maybe it isnt for straight politics. I will look and see if I can post the link.


    Who is going to run the apprentiships? Why would anyone take people on without the skills if they can get people with them. journalism has a clear career path which English clearly doesnt. Thats like saying why have computer degrees when people could learn network management and programming and web design on the job? Why have Law degree? you can already do the ILEX now and do it in the job. Why not learn medicine in a hospital on an apprentiship? Why not accountacy again you can already study why you work.
    Also shorthand is not just for secretaries. WHats with the generalisations.
    When so many subjects fit in this category why single out media?
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    (Original post by Tinykates)
    or maybe it's 12.35am
    p.s. if you want to see some of my arguments look up threads such as 'media studies is NOT a mickey mose subject' etc. sorry i am too tired at the moment
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    (Original post by viviki)

    When so many subjects fit in this category why single out media?
    That's a very good point actually...
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    The problem with learning on the job is you miss out on vital theory. For example take computer networking. You can setup a network without knowing the exact details of TCP/IP headers and CIDR notation. However if you know how this stuff works you will be much better placed to cope with changes in technology becuasr you know the fundemental theory. When you learn on the job you miss out in the fundemental theory. This is why stuff like media production and computing is taught at universities.
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    haha I knew I wasnt hallucinating found the bugger, maybe it isnt this years but it does exist i didnt imagine it.

    http://education.guardian.co.uk/high...433143,00.html
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    (Original post by amazingtrade)
    The problem with learning on the job is you miss out on vital theory. For example take computer networking. You can setup a network without knowing the exact details of TCP/IP headers and CIDR notation. However if you know how this stuff works you will be much better placed to cope with changes in technology becuasr you know the fundemental theory. When you learn on the job you miss out in the fundemental theory. This is why stuff like media production and computing is taught at universities.
    exactly thats why it applies to media too.
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    (Original post by viviki)
    haha I knew I wasnt hallucinating found the bugger, maybe it isnt this years but it does exist i didnt imagine it.

    http://education.guardian.co.uk/high...433143,00.html
    What year did that come from?

    I looked all though this year's table and couldn't find Bradford at all. It was number 17 in The Times one though.
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    (Original post by Frances)
    I never made out you were "the devil" or anything like that. Besides, the narrow minded and patronising comment was aimed at many, many people on this board so don't take it so personally dear.

    Maybe people don't do English Lit because *gasp* they like media better. I personally love reading books, but I always found English Lit. as a subject boring. Media isn't just about analysing the texts, it's about the wider contexts and the impact that media has on society- some of it is more sociology than literature, and those are the parts that I tend to enjoy the most. A lot of the analysis I actually find quite boring for the same reasons that I found English Lit. boring.

    And maybe other people's arguments have been pathetic, but hey, so have yours. Have you actually looked at what's involved in the popular music module, or have you just assumed that it'll be students sitting around listening to music and so it must be worthless. Other media degrees probably do offer modules in poplar music, that doesn't mean that they whole degree is worthless.

    Saying that people just take media because they think it's a doss subject is an offensive generalisation. How many people studying media do you know in order to make that assumption? Because everybody I've met who wants to study media wants to do it because they're interested in the subject.
    Okay, so you like Media therefore you want to study it as a degree right?
    I like chess, but I can't see a chess degree offered anywhere, can you? Someone may like "boozing", I don't see a Boozing degree anywhere around, do you? Although i have heard of a wine degree course!
    None however will help employment prospects, or the economy. If you like media, then why not try and get media classes at the community centre etc, like how they have art classes. These people who go to art classes, didn't all just go and do an Art degree because they like art. Infact I doubt many, if any have art degrees. I am not saying you can't enjoy your degree....before you try and claim this, I am saying that something shouldn't be made a degree course JUST because you enjoy it.
    I know a couple of people who decided to do media at uni. One guy did straight media. He finished his degree a year or so ago and now has a job stacking shelves or soemthing. He wants to be a director and is trying very hard to get into the industry but he told me he is disappointed by the fact that his degree doesn't seem to help him particularly when applying for jobs. Also, he assumed that when he applied for these jobs he would get higher jobs than the ones without degrees applying, but he's found out that the ones without degrees will be starting on the same level as him. This pissed him off big time I must say. He is clearly interested in the industry alot, but his degree does seem to have been a bit of a waste of time.
    Other people I know chose the subject because they thought it would be an easy way to get a degree. They seem to be having an easy time of it, although whether that's because they are good at it or the course is easy, I don't know.
    Of course I don't know hundreds of people doing the subject, i don't know hundreds of people doing my own subject, let alone another subject. But from the few people I have talked to, this viewpoint holds strong.
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    (Original post by BossLady)
    Okay, so you like Media therefore you want to study it as a degree right?
    I like chess, but I can't see a chess degree offered anywhere, can you? Someone may like "boozing", I don't see a Boozing degree anywhere around, do you? Although i have heard of a wine degree course!
    None however will help employment prospects, or the economy. If you like media, then why not try and get media classes at the community centre etc, like how they have art classes. These people who go to art classes, didn't all just go and do an Art degree because they like art. Infact I doubt many, if any have art degrees. I am not saying you can't enjoy your degree....before you try and claim this, I am saying that something shouldn't be made a degree course JUST because you enjoy it.
    I know a couple of people who decided to do media at uni. One guy did straight media. He finished his degree a year or so ago and now has a job stacking shelves or soemthing. He wants to be a director and is trying very hard to get into the industry but he told me he is disappointed by the fact that his degree doesn't seem to help him particularly when applying for jobs. Also, he assumed that when he applied for these jobs he would get higher jobs than the ones without degrees applying, but he's found out that the ones without degrees will be starting on the same level as him. This pissed him off big time I must say. He is clearly interested in the industry alot, but his degree does seem to have been a bit of a waste of time.
    Other people I know chose the subject because they thought it would be an easy way to get a degree. They seem to be having an easy time of it, although whether that's because they are good at it or the course is easy, I don't know.
    Of course I don't know hundreds of people doing the subject, i don't know hundreds of people doing my own subject, let alone another subject. But from the few people I have talked to, this viewpoint holds strong.
    On those lines the point of doing a degree in English lit is?
    It adds to society in what way more than a media degree does?
    The job prospects are so much better in what way?
    The career path is?

    my friend and several of her friends doing media already have jobs lined up for when they finish their course as a direct result of their degree. With any degree you get out what you put in.
    Again why single out media? The same could be said to apply to subjects like archaeology, computer studies, law any engineering subject, art. Why shouldnt you be able to learn something to degree level if you want ata a decent uni you will certainly have to put the work in.
    It is an advantage to get a job already having good skills. Previously i may have shared these misconceptions but now I know people doign media courses and certainly at my uni they work as hard as the law students.
    Also what is wrong with film studies anyway? How is it different from English whats the difference between studying the Booker winner for the year to studying the oscar winner. you still have to use the same analysis skills. A failure to acknowledge this is just intellectual snobbery!
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    (Original post by Frances)
    What year did that come from?

    I looked all though this year's table and couldn't find Bradford at all. It was number 17 in The Times one though.
    I dont know I just did a search on google and it appeared. It must be 2002 or 2003 becuase the accompanying politics article is late 2002.
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    (Original post by BossLady)
    Okay, so you like Media therefore you want to study it as a degree right?
    I like chess, but I can't see a chess degree offered anywhere, can you? Someone may like "boozing", I don't see a Boozing degree anywhere around, do you? Although i have heard of a wine degree course!
    None however will help employment prospects, or the economy. If you like media, then why not try and get media classes at the community centre etc, like how they have art classes. These people who go to art classes, didn't all just go and do an Art degree because they like art. Infact I doubt many, if any have art degrees. I am not saying you can't enjoy your degree....before you try and claim this, I am saying that something shouldn't be made a degree course JUST because you enjoy it.
    I know a couple of people who decided to do media at uni. One guy did straight media. He finished his degree a year or so ago and now has a job stacking shelves or soemthing. He wants to be a director and is trying very hard to get into the industry but he told me he is disappointed by the fact that his degree doesn't seem to help him particularly when applying for jobs. Also, he assumed that when he applied for these jobs he would get higher jobs than the ones without degrees applying, but he's found out that the ones without degrees will be starting on the same level as him. This pissed him off big time I must say. He is clearly interested in the industry alot, but his degree does seem to have been a bit of a waste of time.
    Other people I know chose the subject because they thought it would be an easy way to get a degree. They seem to be having an easy time of it, although whether that's because they are good at it or the course is easy, I don't know.
    Of course I don't know hundreds of people doing the subject, i don't know hundreds of people doing my own subject, let alone another subject. But from the few people I have talked to, this viewpoint holds strong.
    I hardly think media studies degrees exist just because some people thought that it would be fun. :rolleyes: And I don't want to study media at degree level anyway, I want to study Politics, because I have no firm career ideas yet, and that will leave my options open a little more. English or Politics or something is probably a better way into the media, but that doesn't that media is useless. Comparing it to chess degree is a perfect example of those pathetic arguments you mentioned.

    And for the record, I don't think that wine studies sounds like a very good subject for a degree, but since I have no idea what that would actually involve, I'll keep an open mind on that one at the moment.

    I think that people like PencilQueen have made the point several times that having a degree in *anything* is not a guarantee of automatic entry to graduate level jobs. If your friend just assumed that his degree would lead him straight into the industry, then he needs a reality check.
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    (Original post by amazingtrade)
    The problem with learning on the job is you miss out on vital theory. For example take computer networking. You can setup a network without knowing the exact details of TCP/IP headers and CIDR notation. However if you know how this stuff works you will be much better placed to cope with changes in technology becuasr you know the fundemental theory. When you learn on the job you miss out in the fundemental theory. This is why stuff like media production and computing is taught at universities.
    The fact is though amazingtrade, you can read about that in a decent TCP/IP book. . Although it would be much better at uni, you can delve much more deeply into the academic side of computing.
    Media and Computing can't really be compared AT, you're not going to be missing a fundamental theory by being a media apprentice. You will build up an understanding of how the industry works by being in the industry and of course by making contacts there. To be say a networker, you need to have studied and learn networking. To be a java programmer, you need to know how to program java, you'll have to have studied it, understand classes etc etc. To be say a director u don't need to have done media studies. To be a runner, you don't need media either.
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    (Original post by BossLady)
    The fact is though amazingtrade, you can read about that in a decent TCP/IP book. . Although it would be much better at uni, you can delve much more deeply into the academic side of computing.
    Media and Computing can't really be compared AT, you're not going to be missing a fundamental theory by being a media apprentice. You will build up an understanding of how the industry works by being in the industry and of course by making contacts there. To be say a networker, you need to have studied and learn networking. To be a java programmer, you need to know how to program java, you'll have to have studied it, understand classes etc etc. To be say a director u don't need to have done media studies. To be a runner, you don't need media either.
    You dont need English to be anything but a lecturer or English teacher. WHy study it then?
 
 
 
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