Women can abort, so why can't men?

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Clinic's require only mother's consent to abort (97)
65.54%
Clinic's require both mother's and father's consent to abort (51)
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Kennethx
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Please read this argument before you neg me (you might change your mind).

It is legal for a woman to terminate her pregnancy, yet it is not legal for the father to do so. I'm not sure this is fair. Here is why.

1) The baby is dependent on the mother, and in that regard is similar to an unconscious patient who has been joined (through some futuristic medical advances let's say) to a benevolent female donor. The donor willing supplies blood and nutrients on a daily basis to the patient. Meanwhile the donor must cart the patient around with her during her daily routine, while she goes to work, while she sleeps etc. If the donor left the patient alone to die, we would normally not consider it murder because there is rightly a difference between letting someone die and murdering them. And we think it may be justifiable for the donor to sever the bonds linking them, given the additional stress the donor undergoes in bathing with the patient, having to eat extra etc. Now if the husband of the donor intervened and killed the patient, we would rightly consider it murder, because it's truly none of his business.

I don't believe paragraph 1 to be an accurate representation of what's really going on. I think most would agree with me when I say it's usually the 18 years to a lifetime of care that induces women to abort children, and not the 9 months of stress during pregnancy. Pregnancy is a relatively small inconvenience in the grand scheme of things. If the donor in case 1) was hardly inconvenienced by the patient, then we would consider it very callous to let the patient die-- perhaps even tantamount to murder. Suppose you could save a close relative's life by eating a bit more, suffering morning sickness and undergoing some emotional turmoil. You'd probably be willing to do it when faced with the stark realities.

The conclusion I have come to from this train of thought is that either each parent should have equal rights to abort (that for a child to be aborted both parents must consent, it can't just be the mother) or we should start considering abortion as murder. I was wondering if the rest of TSR had any thoughts about abortion or this argument?
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rockrunride
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You haven't considered the emotional and physical implications for the mother who has to carry the thing.

If a mother can't abort her child because she considers it murder, it's her business, don't you think?
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peachpassion
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er last time I checked, the foetus grows inside the mother, not the father.
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SoulfulBoy
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Do men have vaginas?
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Hellz_Bellz!
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Does the father become pregnant? No. Therefore he does not have to deal with the psychological and emotional AND physical trauma that comes with carrying a child. The child is not inside him. It is not part of his body. He has nothing to do with it during pregnancy. Therefore he has no right to make that kind of decision.
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Ham22
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Who said abortion was fair?

Babies grow in women's bodies and for that reason alone it can only be a woman's decision. No one said it was entirely fair. You can't dictate over someone else's body like that, it would be immoral.
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screenager2004
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Unwanted pregnancy is unfair on the women because they are the ones bearing the child.
Unwanted pregnancy is unfair on the man because he gets no say in whether the baby is aborted.
Unwanted pregnancy is unfair on the child because it is aborted prematurely.

I don't think picking out particular sides helps here. Unwanted pregnancy sucks for everyone. At least the man can distance himself from the child, have no part in it's life and just give £10 a week towards its' upkeep, they're definitely getting the better end of the deal here!
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Daniellejo.
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You can't drag a woman kicking and screaming into an abortion clinic; similarly you can't drag her kicking and screaming out of one. At the end of the day it's her body and unfair as it may be, you have no rights over it.
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Kennethx
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(Original post by rockrunride)
You haven't considered the emotional and physical implications for the mother who has to carry the thing.

If a mother can't abort her child because she considers it murder, it's her business, don't you think?

Your question raises a further interesting question. Does a surrogate mother have the right to terminate pregnancy Just because a thing is growing inside of her? I suspect the law is a lot more hazy in this case, and the "I've got a thing growing inside of me" becomes slightly more untenable.

I understand a mother may feel attached to a thing growing inside her. But I don't think that alone confers or should confer any rights that could determine the life or death of a newborn. Especially when from a utilitarian approach you compare the potential benefits of a life not lived vs the pain of only 9 months of pregnancy. I also think it would be spurious to claim that a father is not as attached to a child growing inside the mother.
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Hal E. Luya
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(Original post by Kennethx)
It is legal for a woman to terminate her pregnancy, yet it is not legal for the father to do so. I'm not sure this is fair. Here is why.

1)

I hate this idiotic analogy, it keeps cropping up. It's so irrelevant.


Anyways, I hate how alot of people totally disregard the psychological impact on the male counterparts. Admittedly it pales in comparison to the females, but men are affected by it too!

I think that this would actually be a massive benefit for marriage in modern world. I think that married men should have a say in this! Maybe not a whole say, but some kind of technicality which meant a husband should be consulted.

Outside of that however, I think it would be ridiculously immoral to condemn a woman to 9months minimum for the sake of a selfish man
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pachyderms
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(Original post by Kennethx)
It is legal for a woman to terminate her pregnancy, yet it is not legal for the father to do so.
Wrong. It is not always legal for a woman to terminate her pregnancy.

Is it fair that there are disparities in the law concerning women's rights in different area's of the UK, and how no one (seems to be) discussing it?
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LiamSP
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I see what your getting at OP but I think your a bit off.

My thought process, when a women becomes pregnant she has the ability to completely releive herself of any financial burden and any life long commitment to the child by having an abortion; surely then a man should have the same opportunity? Not to abort the baby but to denounce any financial obligations as well as life long commitments.
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barrze
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What a ridiculous argument. Rethink it then try again.
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Dan3va
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(Original post by rockrunride)
You haven't considered the emotional and physical implications for the mother who has to carry the thing.

If a mother can't abort her child because she considers it murder, it's her business, don't you think?
But if the man wishes to have nothing to do with the child he still has to contribute to it, which i believe is unfair as he has no say in whether it should be aborted or not.

i believe that women deserve the majority right but men should have an increase in rights when it comes to abortions

they should not be allowed to force women to carry out the pregnancy though
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mc1000
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(Original post by Hellz_Bellz!)
The child is not inside him.
Lol.
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Kennethx
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(Original post by rockrunride)
You haven't considered the emotional and physical implications for the mother who has to carry the thing.

If a mother can't abort her child because she considers it murder, it's her business, don't you think?
Yes I have, albeit briefly.
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Cesium
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lot of people are pro-life or pro-choice
I think that every person has their own opinion about abortion, in this case I agree with the fact that men deserve a right !
but then again if parents are not financially stable or ready to have a child, some might opt to have a baby and then give the baby for adoption, but there are lot of emotions and physical implications associated with mother
child is connected to the mother, thus from my point of view separating them is not a good idea.
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Kennethx
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(Original post by barrze)
What a ridiculous argument. Rethink it then try again.
Would you care to give constructive criticism or are you above that?
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Daniellejo.
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(Original post by Kennethx)
Perhaps you can't drag women kicking and screaming into an abortion clinic, but you don't need to drag women kicking and screaming out of them. You can bar them entry in the first place, or perhaps even abolish abortion clinics.
Well I'm personally pro-choice and would never support the abolition of abortion clinics, each to their own however.
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Craig_D
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(Original post by Hellz_Bellz!)
Does the father become pregnant? No. Therefore he does not have to deal with the psychological and emotional AND physical trauma that comes with carrying a child. The child is not inside him. It is not part of his body. He has nothing to do with it during pregnancy. Therefore he has no right to make that kind of decision.
Even if I completely agree with your argument generally, still rather a heartless way of putting it. I'd like to hope that in that position I'd have an indirect relationship with the foetus, at least, and be of some kind of benefit to its general well-being.
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