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shinytoy
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#2261
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#2261
also guys, i AM SINFUL unfortunately so please follow the catechism do NOT follow my very terrible examples
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Leon Trotsky
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#2262
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(Original post by shinytoy)
i dont, as the bible warns against drunkenness and the smell makes me feel ill. But many catholics drink in moderation. However as i am modestly dressed and a non drinker most people assume im muslim
Ah. I think any Catholics that drink are hypocrites if they also oppose drugs.
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LysFromParis
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#2263
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(Original post by shinytoy)

that is a poor example. a better one would be, there are two boys, one of whom is good. one boy does not kill anyone by stands by and watches while his friends kill many innocent people whilst chanting 'it is wrong to judge' and 'thank the Lord I am not like these sinners!'.

the other boy sees his friends killing innocent peoople. he was told by his mother not to kill. he wants to indulge in the murder and war that his friends are doing because it looks fun, but he trusts in his mother (or Father's) words therefore he knows it is wrong to kill and tries to stop others from killing, even though he secretly would like to kill too.

which boy is good now?




The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge, but fools despise wisdom and discipline.Proverbs 1:7
Yes I am in France now.

For abortion, problem is most people are no more Christian. If it's friend asking your advice, you can help them and I think no sane person would advice someone to get an abortion. I hope more abortion are done for medical reason (pregnancy may put the mother life in danger etc.), in this case it must be hard to discern right from wrong, if my wife was facing this problem I don't know how I would react. Young age pregnancy is I hope not that common, better good will be done by teaching the kids rather than forbidding abortion, because if they are not educated properly they will still behave the way they do and you won't have solve the root of the problem. Also at the end of the day I think it's wrong to enforce your belief on people who don't share them, Christian already don't perform abortion.

10 “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’
13 “But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’
14 “I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”
Luke 18

There is no good out of judging others. You can advice people, show them their wrong-doing, but it is not for you to judge. There is enough to keep yourself acting rightfully, that you feel the need to look after other sins.

About the fear of God, I admit it's a notion I don't understand. If it's the fear to disappoint Him, not be worthy of Him, that I understand, but it's fear he harms you that I don't. Disobedience will bring you pain and sorrow, not because God punish you, but I think because you turned away from him.
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shinytoy
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#2264
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#2264
(Original post by LysFromParis)
Yes I am in France now.

For abortion, problem is most people are no more Christian. If it's friend asking your advice, you can help them and I think no sane person would advice someone to get an abortion. I hope more abortion are done for medical reason (pregnancy may put the mother life in danger etc.), in this case it must be hard to discern right from wrong, if my wife was facing this problem I don't know how I would react. Young age pregnancy is I hope not that common, better good will be done by teaching the kids rather than forbidding abortion, because if they are not educated properly they will still behave the way they do and you won't have solve the root of the problem. Also at the end of the day I think it's wrong to enforce your belief on people who don't share them, Christian already don't perform abortion.


Luke 18

There is no good out of judging others. You can advice people, show them their wrong-doing, but it is not for you to judge. There is enough to keep yourself acting rightfully, that you feel the need to look after other sins.

so you are saying that someone who stands back and watches a murder, allowing it to happen has no moral responsibility whatsoever? what about someone knows that murder is wrong and someone who murders should fear for his salvation. is there no duty under 'love thy neighbour' to do what you can to help prevent him from sinning?
.
;;g;
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LysFromParis
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#2265
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#2265
(Original post by shinytoy)
;;g;
You took a quite extreme case, isn't it ?
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shinytoy
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#2266
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(Original post by LysFromParis)
You took a quite extreme case, isn't it ?
not at all

if you stand by and allow abortion then this is EXACTLY what you are doing! your hands are not clean , if you just stand back and allow others to have abortions freely!

there is no way you can both be catholic AND support freedom of abortion laws. the two are not compatible.
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LysFromParis
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#2267
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#2267
(Original post by shinytoy)
not at all

if you stand by and allow abortion then this is EXACTLY what you are doing! your hands are not clean , if you just stand back and allow others to have abortions freely!

there is no way you can both be catholic AND support freedom of abortion laws. the two are not compatible.
Oh before I forget, you were looking for achieving Catholic woman. Look at the new president for the International Monetary Fund.

What do you do to prevent abortion ? Marching in the street, does he do any good ? Do you see nuns or priest walking against it ? If you want to fight it, volunteer in an orphanage, go talk to young people and tell them there is other solution, tell them to not get pregnant before they wed. That's a useful behaviour. People going trough abortion are lost and probably in despair, not evil.
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shinytoy
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#2268
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(Original post by LysFromParis)
Oh before I forget, you were looking for achieving Catholic woman. Look at the new president for the International Monetary Fund.

What do you do to prevent abortion ? Marching in the street, does he do any good ? Do you see nuns or priest walking against it ? If you want to fight it, volunteer in an orphanage, go talk to young people and tell them there is other solution, tell them to not get pregnant before they wed. That's a useful behaviour. People going trough abortion are lost and probably in despair, not evil.
nowhere did i say people who have abortions are evil. hate the sin not the sinner. abortion is evil and murder.

and YES there are things you can do. ever heard of '40 days for life' or 'the good counsel network'? or silent prayer vigils outside abortion clinics? or campaigning against abortion laws with other pro lifers? the attitude isnt 'oh well i cant do anything, let them abort if they want to' or 'if they want to abort, thats fine for them but oooh nooo i would never do that'. you should have a clear and firm pro life position, that if people ask you you can firmly say 'no i am opposed to abortion unless it is in accordance with the catechism'
(ie if abortion is the unavoidance side effect of other medical interventions)
http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s2c2a5.htm

omg guys

CCC 2267 Assuming that the guilty party's identity and responsibility have been fully determined, the traditional teaching of the Church does not exclude recourse to the death penalty, if this is the only possible way of effectively defending human lives against the unjust aggressor.
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Leon Trotsky
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#2269
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#2269
(Original post by shinytoy)
blah blah pro life stuff blah
Do you use soap? Or bleach? Just wondering.
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De Lubac
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#2270
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#2270
I've been gone for a few days, and I return to see that the Catholic society has become a debate!
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adamrules247
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#2271
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#2271
It's descended into madness without my awesome presence

:teehee:
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Aula
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#2272
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#2272
(Original post by Addzter)
Ah. I think any Catholics that drink are hypocrites if they also oppose drugs.
"Drink your wine with a glad heart"
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Leon Trotsky
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#2273
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(Original post by Aula)
"Drink your wine with a glad heart"
Ah, never heard of that little gem before!
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Aula
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#2274
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#2274
(Original post by Addzter)
Ah, never heard of that little gem before!
Ecclesiastes 9:7

I think my favourite quote is from Proverbs 31:6-7
"Procure strong drink for someone about to die, wine for him whose heart is heavy: let him drink and forget his misfortune, and remember his misery no more"
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Leon Trotsky
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#2275
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(Original post by Aula)
Ecclesiastes 9:7

I think my favourite quote is from Proverbs 31:6-7
"Procure strong drink for someone about to die, wine for him whose heart is heavy: let him drink and forget his misfortune, and remember his misery no more"
But, Aula, BUT, what about all that "your body is a temple" business override what was said in Ecclesiastes and Proverbs, as they're OT and Corinthians is NT? :hmmm:
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adamrules247
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#2276
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(Original post by Addzter)
But, Aula, BUT, what about all that "your body is a temple" business override what was said in Ecclesiastes and Proverbs, as they're OT and Corinthians is NT? :hmmm:
:fyi: They keep wine in a church for the offertory.
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Aula
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#2277
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#2277
(Original post by Addzter)
But, Aula, BUT, what about all that "your body is a temple" business override what was said in Ecclesiastes and Proverbs, as they're OT and Corinthians is NT? :hmmm:
Jesus turned water into wine.
Also, wine for communion must contain alcohol.

Basically, drinking is fine, alcoholism is not. Drunkeness is iffy.
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Leon Trotsky
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#2278
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(Original post by adamrules247)
:fyi: They keep wine in a church for the offertory.
Doesn't really mean anything. I already know Catholics think it's fine to drink, I'm just trying to get to the bottom of why.
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yawn
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#2279
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#2279
(Original post by Addzter)
But, Aula, BUT, what about all that "your body is a temple" business override what was said in Ecclesiastes and Proverbs, as they're OT and Corinthians is NT? :hmmm:
I see you've inveigled your way into getting people to respond to you despite being a non-believer.

Get behind me satan...and go back to your atheist society!
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Leon Trotsky
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#2280
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#2280
(Original post by Aula)
Jesus turned water into wine.
Also, wine for communion must contain alcohol.

Basically, drinking is fine, alcoholism is not. Drunkeness is iffy.
That's true, he did do that. If only he'd turned it into weed, the world would be a much better place today.
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