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The_Lonely_Goatherd
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#2901
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#2901
(Original post by Arcane Barn Elk)
You are not the first! I think it might be my name...... or else the incredible masculine force of my posts?
It was the lack of gender symbol and the name for me. I'm not quite sure what about your name strikes me as masculine though :getmecoat:
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yawn
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#2902
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#2902
(Original post by Arcane Barn Elk)
I love the whole 'smells and bells' thing! I have never experienced a Latin mass, but would love to. My favourite Church is St Aloysius in Oxford which I understand has a Latin Mass - although I never made one as I was only there for a week!

I am interested to hear more about the new missal, so thank you Yawn!
For you, and our other Catholic friends, I am providing a link to a video series which explains very well, the rationale for the changes in the new Roman Missal. It is an abbreviated course of that which my parish studied during the seminars I have already referred to:

http://stmarysbordentown.org/?page_id=1522

Additionally, to complement the link I refer you to www.USCCB.org/romanmissal where you will find all the textual changes in the Mass, both the priest's and the congregation's responses.

I hope this helps all of you and leads you to the reasoning rather than reading distortions in the media which might lead to misunderstandings.

God bless

Edit: I've had a look at the second link I provided not knowing that it doesn't take one directly to the changes in the parts of the people in the Order of Mass in the new Roman Missal (3rd edition) A copy of the changes was handed to those attending the instructional seminars and I used the url for your purposes. I can't find that which I am seeking to show you so instead, I suggest that most parishes will have copies in the back of the church of a new booklet which is entitled 'Understanding the Revised Mass Texts' published by the Liturgy Training publications. It cost me £1.95. I don't know if you'll bother buying it but I would entice you to do so by saying that the text of the Gloria has changed so much that composers have written new and revised existing musical settings for it! If anyone wants to know how it goes, I'll type it out by hand on the response to the request. For those who know the original Latin Mass...rather than the Novus Ordo, you will immediately recognise it as the original English translation from that Latin when the vernacular language was first introduced into the Catholic world.
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Angelicus
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#2903
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#2903
(Original post by Choccielatte)

I'm waiting for someone to collect all the various reports together and speak to the Priest about them before I submit an official complaint, but I've been told this could take a month or more to come about I'm actually scared to travel up and see the BF this weekend, because the weird guy knows I'm going and I'm worried he might come and find me :s
Please, please make an official complaint. You've said in your later post that they seem to care more about the man than about this issue - as you rightly pointed out nothing can excuse this sort of behaviour and if this is the way he 'copes' during stressful situations then he shouldn't be in the job he is now.

Please also contact the police. Even if they haven't got enough details to prosecute the person they can probably at the least send a threatoning message to make him back off. You are having to change your lifestyle, are scared to go where you want to go - this is not the time to be embarassed (and WHY should you be - you are in NO way to blame for what has been going on - this is why so many women don't report rape because they feel in some way ashamed and guilty as if it were their fault), or to worry about hurting anyones feelings, or embarassing the priest in charge.

People around you aren't taking this seriously enough so you need to take a more serious approach. Contact the police, contact the diocese and make an official complaint. You shouldn't have to change your life becuase someone else is acting in a wrong, harassing way.

I hope this gets sorted out soon and my prayers are with you.
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The_Lonely_Goatherd
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#2904
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#2904
Gosh, I think I'm gonna have to stay well clear of the other threads that come up in Religion. Arguing with ignorant atheists isn't good for my health :no:
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Angelicus
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#2905
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#2905
(Original post by yawn)
Anyway, the debater who raised the thread was saying that the Catholic pilgrims were very abusive to the protesters in retaliation to the provocation of the protesters. My question is this; were the protests very high profile in such a way as to distract the joy of the pilgrims on WYD, and if they were, how did the youth react to such distractions? And finally, has the WYD impacted on you as regards prayerful reflection?

God bless
I have to admit that while I was there I didn't even know about the protests! I had heard just before I left for Spain (about the 10th) that there had already been a few protests but while we were there we had no news access and I never noticed anything while at any of the events. It might be because we were in a huge crowed for the main events or just that we weren't anywhere near the protests; so no, the protests weren't really high profile at all. (Although as we were leaving the way of the cross we did see someone dressed in drag trying to go the opposite way - perhaps some connection to the protests?) I am sad to hear though that some pilgrims reacted badly - and also that the main media coverage in the Uk is of the violence rather the fact that a 1million + young people could peacefully live in a city.

Personally, I think that WYD has inspired me to learn to pray. But it has also left me sad - there were so many people with such a strong faith (I actually broke down at one of the masses) but I've never felt like that. I've never had a strong faith, more based on the very strong faith and impact of God on my family etc. and I can see so many reasons for there not to be a God, especially from RS this year. I kinda hoped that I might get a sign or feel a connection with God but that was not to be....at least WYD has persuaded me not to give up for a little while longer!

I was also impressed by the YouCat and I really recommend that people get hold of it if they can. Its surprisingly unpatronising and it has a good overview of all the catechisms (or most - I'm not sure), with a short quote from the catechism on each question followed by some explanaition. Its definitely inspired me to want to take a look at the full length catechisms.
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Angelicus
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#2906
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#2906
(Original post by The_Lonely_Goatherd)
Gosh, I think I'm gonna have to stay well clear of the other threads that come up in Religion. Arguing with ignorant atheists isn't good for my health :no:
You poor thing Most of the religion threads just want to make me cry at the levels of ignorance, misunderstanding, anger and intolerance - from all sides of the debate! I still get caught up in them though.

Also, I'm glad you had a good confession
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The_Lonely_Goatherd
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#2907
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#2907
(Original post by Angelicus)
Personally, I think that WYD has inspired me to learn to pray. But it has also left me sad - there were so many people with such a strong faith (I actually broke down at one of the masses) but I've never felt like that. I've never had a strong faith, more based on the very strong faith and impact of God on my family etc. and I can see so many reasons for there not to be a God, especially from RS this year. I kinda hoped that I might get a sign or feel a connection with God but that was not to be....at least WYD has persuaded me not to give up for a little while longer!
I don't think you're a lost cause yet. Just remember that God is always with you, even if you can't feel Him :yes:

I can also see many reasons for there not to be a God and sometimes I wonder whether I'm talking to myself rather than a loving Father
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The_Lonely_Goatherd
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#2908
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#2908
(Original post by Angelicus)
You poor thing Most of the religion threads just want to make me cry at the levels of ignorance, misunderstanding, anger and intolerance - from all sides of the debate! I still get caught up in them though.

Also, I'm glad you had a good confession
Someone just kept banging on about how God's omniscience means we have no free will :facepalm: Then when I explained I'm mentally ill and not good at apologetics, they asked me why I was bothering to post

Thank you. Today and yesterday I've felt more like myself than I have done in months. I'm waiting to see whether this lasts
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Angelicus
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#2909
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#2909
(Original post by The_Lonely_Goatherd)
I don't think you're a lost cause yet. Just remember that God is always with you, even if you can't feel Him :yes:

I can also see many reasons for there not to be a God and sometimes I wonder whether I'm talking to myself rather than a loving Father
I guess so - I think part of the problem is the seeming emptiness. I feel silly trying to pray into what feels like nothing so generally don't but if I don't then I'm always going to find it hard. I found a good book on contemplative prayer so I'm going to give it a try.

And I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels this way
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The_Lonely_Goatherd
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#2910
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#2910
(Original post by Angelicus)
I guess so - I think part of the problem is the seeming emptiness. I feel silly trying to pray into what feels like nothing so generally don't but if I don't then I'm always going to find it hard. I found a good book on contemplative prayer so I'm going to give it a try.

And I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels this way
I know what you mean. Sometimes when I'm praying I stop and I'm like, "what on earth am I doing?!" :dontknow:

What book is this, if you don't mind me asking? I try to practice contemplative prayer too. It's really great.

Do you use anything to make God seem more tangible during prayer, e.g. imagery, statues, paintings? Maybe that would help your relationship a bit? :dontknow:
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Angelicus
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#2911
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#2911
(Original post by The_Lonely_Goatherd)
Someone just kept banging on about how God's omniscience means we have no free will :facepalm: Then when I explained I'm mentally ill and not good at apologetics, they asked me why I was bothering to post

Thank you. Today and yesterday I've felt more like myself than I have done in months. I'm waiting to see whether this lasts
Not nice - they should have been glad someone bothered to post That said though its one of those issues where I go, kinda doesn't make sense, possible reason for not being a God - but I won't start a debate on it here as well

Also, what does an apologetic mean? I always thought it was someone who was pretty traditionalist/anti-vatican 2 but I think I might have got that wrong.....
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The_Lonely_Goatherd
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#2912
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#2912
(Original post by Angelicus)
Not nice - they should have been glad someone bothered to post That said though its one of those issues where I go, kinda doesn't make sense, possible reason for not being a God - but I won't start a debate on it here as well

Also, what does an apologetic mean? I always thought it was someone who was pretty traditionalist/anti-vatican 2 but I think I might have got that wrong.....
Apologetics, as far as I understand, is someone who answers questions on/fights for the faith :yes:
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Angelicus
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#2913
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#2913
(Original post by The_Lonely_Goatherd)
I know what you mean. Sometimes when I'm praying I stop and I'm like, "what on earth am I doing?!" :dontknow:

What book is this, if you don't mind me asking? I try to practice contemplative prayer too. It's really great.

Do you use anything to make God seem more tangible during prayer, e.g. imagery, statues, paintings? Maybe that would help your relationship a bit? :dontknow:
Its called 'Coming to God in the Stillness' by James Borst.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Coming-Explo.../dp/0863470513 - could even be yours for 0.01p - what an accolade

Anyway, its split into two sections, one with 12 steps to follow and the other with a sort of Q&A on contemplative prayer. The twelve steps, each to be spent as much time on as you want before you move onto the next step are all fairly practicle and clearly explained. For instance step 1 is called relaxation and silence and all about how to slip into a meditative step - he suggests saying 'be' on the in breath and 'still' on the outbreath and focuses on the need to let thoughts go rather than suspress them which can bring more tension and violence into the body.

I don't tend to - I can get a bit annoyed by the masculine presentation of God :P However, I do have a beautiful cross which I could try hiolding while praying - I might give it a go!
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Angelicus
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#2914
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#2914
(Original post by The_Lonely_Goatherd)
Apologetics, as far as I understand, is someone who answers questions on/fights for the faith :yes:
Aha...that makes a leetle bit more sense

Sorry to keep cross quoting you as it were - I keep replying to what you've said before, post and then find out you've posted something else!
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The_Lonely_Goatherd
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#2915
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#2915
(Original post by Angelicus)
Its called 'Coming to God in the Stillness' by James Borst.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Coming-Explo.../dp/0863470513 - could even be yours for 0.01p - what an accolade

Anyway, its split into two sections, one with 12 steps to follow and the other with a sort of Q&A on contemplative prayer. The twelve steps, each to be spent as much time on as you want before you move onto the next step are all fairly practicle and clearly explained. For instance step 1 is called relaxation and silence and all about how to slip into a meditative step - he suggests saying 'be' on the in breath and 'still' on the outbreath and focuses on the need to let thoughts go rather than suspress them which can bring more tension and violence into the body.

I don't tend to - I can get a bit annoyed by the masculine presentation of God :P However, I do have a beautiful cross which I could try hiolding while praying - I might give it a go!
No worries about the cross-quoting: hopefully this post should fix that. Thanks for the book recommendation: I've bought it off Amazon

I've decided that God is definitely male because He's so annoying at times :rofl:

Just try and keep in conversation with God, whatever happens. I pray that you begin to feel a connection
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Arcane Barn Elk
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#2916
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#2916
(Original post by The_Lonely_Goatherd)
Someone just kept banging on about how God's omniscience means we have no free will :facepalm: Then when I explained I'm mentally ill and not good at apologetics, they asked me why I was bothering to post

Thank you. Today and yesterday I've felt more like myself than I have done in months. I'm waiting to see whether this lasts
Frustrating isn't it? I still think that it is worth debating, especially when you are able to correct ignorance. I had a pagan tell me that as there is a history in paganism of human sacrifice, cannabalism and worshipping death, there was nothing wrong with abortion and that Catholics accused women who had miscarriages of murder! :mad:

I am sorry that they were so rude to you about your illness. I think that it was just a cheap shot, but hurtful all the same!

I try not to use the term 'mentally ill' to describe my own difficulties (Depressive Disorder (with occasional 'psychotic breaks') and Generalised Anxiety Disorder) as I find the shutters come straight down. I am quite open about them though as I think this is another area where ignorance and prejudice prevail. I also mention my psychiatrist if appropriate - I see him every three months atm.

I am really pleased that you feel 'more like yourself'. It is such a relief after a period of instability.
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Aula
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#2917
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#2917
(Original post by The_Lonely_Goatherd)
Thank you :hugs: I did manage to sleep in the end. I'm trying very hard to hold onto the fact that I have absolution. Things were so peaceful yesterday until the voices came along. It was the first time I'd felt like myself in ages
That's wonderful. I really really hope you manage to keep them away. Keeping you in my prayers.

(Original post by Goody2Shoes-x)
I am not 100% sure, but I think my diocese is Menevia? I don't know, google wasn't much help in this case... I live in Swansea?

If you don't mind me asking, how long have you been Catholic, were you brought up as a Catholic or did you find your way into the faith? Feel free to tell me to shove off and mind my own business, I'm just curious is all.
Use http://www.dioceseofmenevia.org/index.php/parishes/ to have a look for your nearest church. There should be one fairly near. Also, you're not too far away from Cardigan, where the national shrine of Wales is. That's rather a lovely place (if you can find it...).

I've been brought up a Catholic, but went through a bit of a struggle a couple of years ago. God didn't let me go though, so here I still am, at the beginning of an exciting year working at a retreat centre!
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Aula
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#2918
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#2918
(Original post by Angelicus)
I have to admit that while I was there I didn't even know about the protests! I had heard just before I left for Spain (about the 10th) that there had already been a few protests but while we were there we had no news access and I never noticed anything while at any of the events. It might be because we were in a huge crowed for the main events or just that we weren't anywhere near the protests; so no, the protests weren't really high profile at all. (Although as we were leaving the way of the cross we did see someone dressed in drag trying to go the opposite way - perhaps some connection to the protests?) I am sad to hear though that some pilgrims reacted badly - and also that the main media coverage in the Uk is of the violence rather the fact that a 1million + young people could peacefully live in a city.
Just to add to this, the main effect it had on WYD was that we were warned to keep away from Sol (a main square). The group I was with also took down a poster at some point which said 'pope put on a condom'. My first act of antidisestablishmentarianism We didn't know there had been riots until we got back to our residence that evening and saw it on the news.
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yawn
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#2919
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#2919
(Original post by The_Lonely_Goatherd)
Someone just kept banging on about how God's omniscience means we have no free will :facepalm: Then when I explained I'm mentally ill and not good at apologetics, they asked me why I was bothering to post
Such is the cruelty exposed from those who claim to be as moral as those with faith. We must pray that they see what they are doing and try to change their ways...at the very least, have a little compassion for their fellow wo/men. Friendly encouragement seems to be beyond them. :rolleyes:

Having said this though, it is a person like you that could change a heart of stone, if you can develop the skin of an elephant! Remember that they mock an idea rather than an individual since they don't know you.

Anyway, I'm off to another thread to conclude my apologetic of Jesus' fulfillment Messianic prophesy in the face of a very determined 'Jewish' brother.
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Angelicus
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#2920
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#2920
(Original post by Aula)
Just to add to this, the main effect it had on WYD was that we were warned to keep away from Sol (a main square). The group I was with also took down a poster at some point which said 'pope put on a condom'. My first act of antidisestablishmentarianism We didn't know there had been riots until we got back to our residence that evening and saw it on the news.
aha....so that was why we were told not to go to Sol! We all just assumed it was because they didn't want everyone cramming into the central district.

And well done for your 'rebellious' act
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