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    (Original post by shinytoy)
    CofE cannot take communiion in RC church, due to the belief in TRANSUBSTANTIATION not present in the CofE faith
    in that case I've broken the rules :eek:
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    how on earth did i manage to get an A at GCSE RE.
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    (Original post by shinytoy)
    are there any non-irish RCs? im latina
    Yup, right here.


    You're not gonna have a member list in the first post?
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    yer, we want a members list!
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    Good idea starting this society, shinytoy!

    I'm Catholic, kind of Irish I suppose... my ancestors quite a few generations back were Irish Catholics, and passed down their faith.
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    where is shinytoy?
    I wanna join
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    Count me in.
    Roman Catholics do indeed 'Rock'!
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    hello everyone! i have added a member list. i'm glad to see more people have joined!

    Shinytoy
    TomInPortsmouth
    Stikatoo
    beanbagzzz
    xXLil'-AnGelXx
    katy200
    Yellowmellow
    awkward_eagle
    EnglishDude

    ===
    RhiddynUK and rpotter can only join if they a)believe in the Roman Catholic faith and b) stop making rude anti-Catholic jokes

    do you have Catholic friends your age? im 20 and finding it tough to meet Catholics. well actually i meet loads of Catholics- everyone claims to be catholic. but most of them dont even know what the eucharist is, dont go to church, have sex before marriage and even abortions. im not judging them, but its hard finding people who truly believe and enjoy their faith, and who follow all the teachings rather than 'catholic by default'

    im hoping to join my uni's christian union Alpha course - has anyone done this before?
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    But technically I am Roman Catholic! This is discrimination! Plus I didnt make any jokes
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    (Original post by rpotter)
    I'm technically a catholic, but dont believe in god...

    Do I qualify?
    i dont see how you can be catholic if you are also atheist. unless you WANT to become catholic, in which case we can help.
    please explain.
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    This is a Roman Catholic society, therefore if the church recognises me as a Roman Catholic, I can join right?

    I was confirmed as a Roman Catholic, and in the church's eyes I still am (I havent been bothered to tell them I dont believe in god anymore).

    Now can I join?
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    (Original post by rpotter)
    This is a Roman Catholic society, therefore if the church recognises me as a Roman Catholic, I can join right?

    I was confirmed as a Roman Catholic, and in the church's eyes I still am (I havent been bothered to tell them I dont believe in god anymore).

    Now can I join?
    Why would you want to join a society for Catholics?

    You don't believe in God!

    Do you want to post in this forum just to try to antagonise members?

    If you don't have a good intentioned desire just 'fling yer 'ook' matey!

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    (Original post by shinytoy)
    yay! talk about issues of morality, social issues and questions of faith and belief. all Catholics welcome!

    much love and God bless xx

    MEMBERS:

    Shinytoy
    TomInPortsmouth
    Stikatoo
    beanbagzzz
    xXLil'-AnGelXx
    katy200
    Yellowmellow
    awkward_eagle
    EnglishDude
    A well-intentioned gesture, shinytoy! Count me in.

    A word of advice though. You will find protagonists dropping in and out of this sub-forum since they can't resist the temptation to mock.

    Ignore them - the Holy Spirit will give us the discernment to 'suss' them out.
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    (Original post by yawn)
    Why would you want to join a society for Catholics?

    You don't believe in God!

    Do you want to post in this forum just to try to antagonise members?

    If you don't have a good intentioned desire just 'fling yer 'ook' matey!

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    A well-intentioned gesture, shinytoy! Count me in.

    A word of advice though. You will find protagonists dropping in and out of this sub-forum since they can't resist the temptation to mock.

    Ignore them - the Holy Spirit will give us the discernment to 'suss' them out.
    thanks yawn - i have added you on the list.
    most of the Catholics i have met at uni are like rpotter- they are baptised and possibly confirmed as part of catholic high school but dont actually believe it or practice it. and not just young people - some old people seem to use the church as a social club, a gathering for weddings/baptisms and funerals. though i found this more so in the anglican faith

    its hard to find people who actually believe.
    my spiritual life is interesting and eventful right now - there's a Latin Mass Society coming to my local church on Friday which im looking forward to as i have never been ( i think it was you that told me about it yawn - thanks )


    rpotter, do you want to talk about the reasons which caused you to turn away from your faith? why do you no longer believe in God?
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    (Original post by shinytoy)
    rpotter, do you want to talk about the reasons which caused you to turn away from your faith? why do you no longer believe in God?
    First doubts came when I found out santa did exist (something I have never really recovered from :p:) and was expecting to hear that neither did god, but that never happened. Anyways I let those doubts pass

    However one day when I was older I just thought, wait a second, why do I believe in god? It was because I was told to. So I decided to look at the reasons for belief myself, and was quite shocked to find that there was no evidence for god. The belief that I had once held was irrational, and the existence of god was equally likely as that of the flying spaghetti monster.

    I didnt do this lightly however, I really did think about it for a long time.

    I looked at the arguments for the existence of god and found that they were all flawed, the reason for belief was that we can't yet explain everything with science. Although many would say, well there is room for god becuse we cant disprove him, we cant disprove leprechauns, unicorns and other such things, but that is not a reason for belief.

    I concluded that the chance of a god, such as the christian one, was infitesimally small and hence became an atheist.
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    (Original post by shinytoy)
    thanks yawn - i have added you on the list.
    most of the Catholics i have met at uni are like rpotter- they are baptised and possibly confirmed as part of catholic high school but dont actually believe it or practice it. and not just young people - some old people seem to use the church as a social club, a gathering for weddings/baptisms and funerals. though i found this more so in the anglican faith
    Many young people these days whose parents have put them through the 'hoops' of Baptism, Holy Communion and Confirmation and do so to suit their own agendas. Catholic schools are always heavily oversubscribed because of their ethos, standards of behaviour and academic excellence. Many parents find no trouble with their conscience in 'abusing' the Sacraments to get their offsprings backsides a place on a chair at a Catholic school. I find this very offensive, and the backlash is that the offspring, not having been reared in a home that is soundly placed in Christian beliefs will just stray as they have not had the example of the parents. Not in all cases, obviously, but in many cases.
    There is also the problem that many of these children are not equipped either with the knowledge of their faith or with the ability to deal intellectually with non-believers and quickly succumb to atheism since they are unable to reason for themselves in the face of aggressive attack and end up complicit with their aggressors.
    Finally there are those who temporarily lose their way when they go through the turmoil of adolescence. They reject the principles of their parents because that is what teen kids do as part of their development to full maturity. Providing they have that inherent attachment to God from their family background they will often return to the fold of the Shepherd at a later age.

    (Original post by shinytoy)
    its hard to find people who actually believe.
    There are plenty of people who believe - you will witness them by their prayerful lives and the witness of Christ that they bring into their relationships with everyone.

    (Original post by shinytoy)
    my spiritual life is interesting and eventful right now - there's a Latin Mass Society coming to my local church on Friday which im looking forward to as i have never been ( i think it was you that told me about it yawn - thanks )
    It was a privilege for me to point you in the direction of the Latin Mass providers. I hope you continue to find much joy, love and inner peace from your spiritual journey - which is a lifelong trip!
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    (Original post by rpotter)
    First doubts came when I found out santa did exist (something I have never really recovered from :p:) and was expecting to hear that neither did god, but that never happened. Anyways I let those doubts pass

    However one day when I was older I just thought, wait a second, why do I believe in god? It was because I was told to. So I decided to look at the reasons for belief myself, and was quite shocked to find that there was no evidence for god. The belief that I had once held was irrational, and the existence of god was equally likely as that of the flying spaghetti monster.

    I didnt do this lightly however, I really did think about it for a long time.

    I looked at the arguments for the existence of god and found that they were all flawed, the reason for belief was that we can't yet explain everything with science. Although many would say, well there is room for god becuse we cant disprove him, we cant disprove leprechauns, unicorns and other such things, but that is not a reason for belief.

    I concluded that the chance of a god, such as the christian one, was infitesimally small and hence became an atheist.
    didnt steven hawking prove the universe's rate of expansion was impossible to be due to chance alone, and that there must be a God?
    the reasons there seems to be not proof of God eg in studies of prayer is cos God warned people not to test Him - 'pray in hope not expectation'. yes we cannot prove leprechauns etc but the world's majority believes in God/s and have done for thousands of years, so why should we change that now? also, although Jesus isnt here today, the many Christian missionaries/priests etc who heal the sick in hospitals, perform extreme unction, live good lives that help people all are signs of Him being here.

    if the world was only about us, why do we have morality?

    even if there is no God as a superior being, i think it is ok for us to refer to the force of love and conscience ad kindness in and around all of us as God. the voice that tells us to steal is wrong - the logical part of us says ' i want X, it is good for me to have why not take it' but our awareness of God stops us. its a good basis for morality in life, to follow Gods Way even if you do not see Him.

    also, if you are at the point of death/ extreme pain and alone, even a strong atheist will pray. when i was young i was a bit like you until i was in a car accident and no one was around to help me and even though i thought i was atheist or agnostic i did pray and hence found Him
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    (Original post by yawn)
    Many young people these days whose parents have put them through the 'hoops' of Baptism, Holy Communion and Confirmation and do so to suit their own agendas. Catholic schools are always heavily oversubscribed because of their ethos, standards of behaviour and academic excellence. Many parents find no trouble with their conscience in 'abusing' the Sacraments to get their offsprings backsides a place on a chair at a Catholic school. I find this very offensive, and the backlash is that the offspring, not having been reared in a home that is soundly placed in Christian beliefs will just stray as they have not had the example of the parents. Not in all cases, obviously, but in many cases.
    There is also the problem that many of these children are not equipped either with the knowledge of their faith or with the ability to deal intellectually with non-believers and quickly succumb to atheism since they are unable to reason for themselves in the face of aggressive attack and end up complicit with their aggressors.
    Finally there are those who temporarily lose their way when they go through the turmoil of adolescence. They reject the principles of their parents because that is what teen kids do as part of their development to full maturity. Providing they have that inherent attachment to God from their family background they will often return to the fold of the Shepherd at a later age.
    I agree totally with what you said about some parents getting their kids into school like that having seen it happen, however I would just like to point out that that doesn't apply to me, my mother's side of my family is catholic, and have she believes in god.

    However I dont like where you said the thing about the ability to deal with non believers, becuase to me that stinks of indoctrination, indoctrinating them to believe that it is right whatever anyone else will say, you can scare a kid ******** by saying that they will go to hell if they dont believe. Personally I dont think that kids should be brought up with one religion, I think that they should be taught all sides of the debate and allowed to choose which path they wish to take when old enough to do so.

    Finally me becoming atheist is not teenage rebellion, I havent even told my parents (mainly because I dont want my younger sister to know in case I sway her opinion, she should make her own mind up).

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    (Original post by shinytoy)
    didnt steven hawking prove the universe's rate of expansion was impossible to be due to chance alone, and that there must be a God?
    No, I'm not sure where this idea comes from, all hawing did was show that according to general relativity time began at the big bang, and thus nothing can have existed before it since there was no before. The chuirch hijacked the idea of a beginning and said it proved a god, it does not, and it does really annoy me when people tell others that science has proved the eixistence of god, in fact science has found no evidence for god.

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    (Original post by shinytoy)
    the reasons there seems to be not proof of God eg in studies of prayer is cos God warned people not to test Him - 'pray in hope not expectation'
    But then that would mean that god does not answer prayers, because if he did, we would be able to detect it

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    (Original post by shinytoy)
    the world's majority believes in God/s and have done for thousands of years, so why should we change that now?
    Just becuase a large number of people believe something, doenst make it right. Centuries back most people belived the earth was flat. Religion was created to explain the world, how we came into being etc, but now we are beggining to undrstand that there is no need for supernatural explanations, traditions are not always right. If something is wrong, should we believe it just becuse are anscestors did?

    --------------

    (Original post by shinytoy)
    Jesus isnt here today, the many Christian missionaries/priests etc who heal the sick in hospitals, perform extreme unction, live good lives that help people all are signs of Him being here.
    Christian missionaries do not heal the sick in hospitals, why is it that all supposed miracles involve things that could have got better over time, why has none grown a leg back?

    People living good lives is not evidence for jesus

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    (Original post by shinytoy)
    if the world was only about us, why do we have morality?
    Well the world is not just about us, we are but tiny insignificant specs in the universe, not as important as religions make us out to be. Morality has in fact been shown to be of evolutional advantage to humans since it helps preserve communities which are to the benefit of everyone.

    --------------

    (Original post by shinytoy)
    even if there is no God as a superior being, i think it is ok for us to refer to the force of love and conscience ad kindness in and around all of us as God. the voice that tells us to steal is wrong - the logical part of us says ' i want X, it is good for me to have why not take it' but our awareness of God stops us. its a good basis for morality in life, to follow Gods Way even if you do not see Him.
    Many christians do point to mrality for evidence, however as I have just explained all of those things are of evolutionary advantage, science explains it without resorting to a deity, which doesnt actually answer any questions.
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    (Original post by rpotter)
    I agree totally with what you said about some parents getting their kids into school like that having seen it happen, however I would just like to point out that that doesn't apply to me, my mother's side of my family is catholic, and have she believes in god.
    It's good we can agree on something, rpotter! I believe you that you did not receive the Sacraments for the benefit of a hidden parental agenda. Does your mother practice her faith regularly, setting an example to her children?

    (Original post by rpotter)
    However I dont like where you said the thing about the ability to deal with non believers, becuase to me that stinks of indoctrination, indoctrinating them to believe that it is right whatever anyone else will say, you can scare a kid ******** by saying that they will go to hell if they dont believe. Personally I dont think that kids should be brought up with one religion, I think that they should be taught all sides of the debate and allowed to choose which path they wish to take when old enough to do so.
    We are all subject to 'indoctrination' of one sort or another, whether it be faith/non faith related, or loyalty to one's country etc. You can scare a kid by saying "there is no God, you will never see your gran/grandad again when they die and when you die you will just be burned or go into a grave and that's the end"- and I know of no one who has been told that they would go to hell if they did not believe in God, nor do any of my friends. Strange, that. I think that people 'bandy around' certain sayings as fact when in reality those 'sayings' are not widely heard.
    A child who have been raised predominantly in the faith of their parents, and has the opportunity to acquire knowledge of other faith groups (as they do at school as part of the NC) is in a far better position to make an informed choice at a later age.

    (Original post by rpotter)
    Finally me becoming atheist is not teenage rebellion, I havent even told my parents (mainly because I dont want my younger sister to know in case I sway her opinion, she should make her own mind up).
    The exploration of one's beliefs starts around puberty. We question "who am I" "what am I" "where do I exist in relation to others and to God". It is a time of self reflection and needs to be, since it is a step towards adult maturity. It is at this stage that many question the existence of God. No one has ever seen God, so how can we know He exists? Some kids will never find Him again, which causes me great sadness - others will when a particular life event happens to them. I don't know what that event will be, but I know and have heard of many who do discover God again. I think you should discuss it with your mum since she is your first and most important educator. Have trust in her that she will want to help you and not condemn you for a very natural questioning of your faith. You would be wisest to keep it from your sister for the time being - she may, in turn, need help with her faith.
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    (Original post by shinytoy)
    also, if you are at the point of death/ extreme pain and alone, even a strong atheist will pray. when i was young i was a bit like you until i was in a car accident and no one was around to help me and even though i thought i was atheist or agnostic i did pray and hence found Him
    I know that it may seem this way, however although nothing like this has happened to me, it has happened to people I know and I didnt pray for them, I saw it as a waste of time. I think if something like that happened to me I wouldn't want to waste my last moments do something that I perceive to be futile. Of course I will never know until I do die, but that is what I think will go through my mind



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    (Original post by yawn)
    It's good we can agree on something, rpotter! I believe you that you did not receive the Sacraments for the benefit of a hidden parental agenda. Does your mother practice her faith regularly, setting an example to her children?
    Yes, she does
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    (Original post by yawn)
    We are all subject to 'indoctrination' of one sort or another, whether it be faith/non faith related, or loyalty to one's country etc. You can scare a kid by saying "there is no God, you will never see your gran/grandad again when they die and when you die you will just be burned or go into a grave and that's the end"- and I know of no one who has been told that they would go to hell if they did not believe in God, nor do any of my friends. Strange, that. I think that people 'bandy around' certain sayings as fact when in reality those 'sayings' are not widely heard.
    A child who have been raised predominantly in the faith of their parents, and has the opportunity to acquire knowledge of other faith groups (as they do at school as part of the NC) is in a far better position to make an informed choice at a later age.
    The thing is that raising a kid as religous or not religious has a massive impact on their final decision. If you look at twins seperated at birth, one brought up say christian another atheist, it is more likely that they will follow that they were brought up as. I see this as a result of indoctrination. I think that kids should be brought up agnostic so that they can decide for themselves. In addition I dislike faith schools. I went to both a catholic primary and secondary school, and both were very good schools, however looking back on it we were never taught anything other in RE that god existed, and, being kids, you didnt doubt it. When I said the thing about going to hell, I didnt mean that they tell you in that way (although I know of some schools, not many, that do), but you are told that you will only go to heaven if you believe in god.

    On the other side I would also not like it if people were brought up being told that god doesnt exists, as happens in china.
 
 
 
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