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  • View Poll Results: Do you want Ronaldo to leave the Premiership?
    Yes.
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    No (^o))
    45.78%

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    (Original post by calderstonesLFC)
    Gerrard and lampard both, dissapear in the england side as they both need a defensive linchpin to work to their potential.
    Lets not forget that gerrard is also 3 years lampards jnr i think. 24 and 27 respectively? Lampard is at the 'peak' of his game well gerrard has many years ahead of him.
    Lampard doesnt dissapear for England - he's been very good, contributing goals and assists and not making silly mistakes. We're talking about who is better now, so what has age got to do with it?

    Gerrard cant defend? Get hold of the champions league final and watch him fill in at right back very effectively for the last 30 mins or so. Hes one of the most vesatile players in the world, definetly the premership.
    Yep, i watched the CL final. Gerrard really showed his defensive qualities in the first half . And guess what as soon as Hamman comes on (someone who can actually defend), Liverpool concede no more goals. When he played at right back he was skinned by Serginho loads of times (e.g. Gerrard let the cross in for the Shevchenko header, only for Dudek to get Gerrard off the hook.) Gerrard doesnt seem that versatile - he plays the DM and RB position poorly, so the only real positions he can play well in are AM and RM. For true versatility go look at Zambrotta of Juventus.

    No, the reason barca lost is because chelsea decided to manhandled the barca goalkeeper leaving terry an open goal
    So i suppose Liverpool shouldn't have won the CL then since Del Piero's goal at Anfield was actually onside, and that would have sent Liverpool out at the QF stage.

    I like the way you totally ignored my post which was directed at you. You came up with False claims about Lampard, but you just chose to ignore my reply.
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    What I'd like to know is how the opinion poll for these two players changed so much over a rather small amount of time.
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    (Original post by NDGAARONDI)
    What I'd like to know is how the opinion poll for these two players changed so much over a rather small amount of time.
    Gerrard having a blinding season, must have something to do with it. He's matured as captain, and is arguably creating some pretty football. I think a lot of it has to do with Benitez, and his moulding and channeling. Under Houllier it'd be pass out of defense to Gerrard, who'd pick it up, run 50 yards, cross it into the box, meet the cross himself, slide it into the net, solve world hunger, eliminate AIDs and the like. But that meant the team could only ever be as good as Gerrard, nothing more. No Gerrard, no team. He felt the weight of that, got the silver tongues niggling in his ears in the England camp, and enjoyed the footy less and less. The grass was quite simply greener on the other side.

    Now look at the midfield. He's playing with arguably the best deep-lying playmaker in Europe in Alonso (the other Pirlo, for me); Momo "search and destroy" Sissoko, a human wrecking ball; and a rejuvenating Harry Kewell. He doesn't need to be everywhere and everything, and is far more effective as a result. He's fit, he's injury free, and is consistantly playing to a high standard. Although that's not to say that Lampard doesn't and isn't, I just feel that Gerrard is offering and providing more at this stage.
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    Gerrard doesnt seem that versatile
    I've heard it all now. He could probably play any outfield position on the pitch. He hasn't been far off in the past months having played at full back, central midfield, winger, 'in the hole' and full out striker.

    Where's this notion that Gerrard can't defend? Lampard cannot defend, his game has nothing to do with defence, he is more Paul Scholes than Roy Keane. Gerrard can defend, he is one of the best tacklers in England for starters, but hasn't got the tactical discipline to play the role, long term.
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    (Original post by kpg)
    I've heard it all now. He could probably play any outfield position on the pitch. He hasn't been far off in the past months having played at full back, central midfield, winger, 'in the hole' and full out striker.
    This is all your opinion. He was poor playing at fullback and in defensive midfield. He's good as an attacking midfielder and on the right wing. Playing "in the hole" is pretty much the same as playing as an attacking midfielder. I've never seen him play as a lone striker.

    Where's this notion that Gerrard can't defend? Lampard cannot defend, his game has nothing to do with defence, he is more Paul Scholes than Roy Keane. Gerrard can defend, he is one of the best tacklers in England for starters, but hasn't got the tactical discipline to play the role, long term.
    Read some of my earlier posts. I never said Lampard could defend, so why are you bringing that up? Theres a lot more to defending than simply tackling (which Gerrard isnt even that good at). Discipline plays a large part in being good at defending - and you admit that Gerrard does not have this quality.
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    ba_ba - you dont seem to understand how Gerrard made his name at Liverpool. At the academy he played a season at Right Back as well as in Midfield, when he broke into the reserves he was playing Right Back, and when he first broke into the first team under Houllier, he was played at Right back. He can defend, I've seen it with my own eyes.. Obviously when he is playing attacking midfield, where he has been employed more recently, it isnt his job to defend - but I'll tell you now, the guy most definately can defend - which is why he has become one of the best players in the world.

    I don't like it when Gerrard plays defensive midfield because he is wasted there, but apart from that he can play a conventional Center Mid, just behind the strikers, On the right wing, up front and at Full back... and I wouldnt complain about having Gerrard play any of those positions.

    "Gerrard isnt even that good at tackling" - one example - Phil Neville by the corner flag at the start of the derby at the shithole this season... Best. Tackle. Ever.

    STTTTEEEEEVVVVVEEEEEE GERRARD GERRARD
    HE'LL PASS THE BALL FORTY YARDS
    HE'S BIG AND HE'S ****IN HARD
    STEVE GERRARD GERRARD
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    (Original post by ba_ba1)
    This is all your opinion. He was poor playing at fullback and in defensive midfield. He's good as an attacking midfielder and on the right wing. Playing "in the hole" is pretty much the same as playing as an attacking midfielder. I've never seen him play as a lone striker.

    Read some of my earlier posts. I never said Lampard could defend, so why are you bringing that up? Theres a lot more to defending than simply tackling (which Gerrard isnt even that good at). Discipline plays a large part in being good at defending - and you admit that Gerrard does not have this quality.
    There were a few games last season, Middlesborough was one, where Cisse, Mellor, Pongolle, Baros, Morientes were all out injured. He started his career at right full back, and had to fill in again through injury last season, doing a job at it too. We've been through the defensive conundrum. He's got the attributes and ability to play as a defensive midfielder, but not the mentality or, perhaps, inclination. Let's put it this way. If there was a team consisting of 11 of the same player, there would be noone better than Gerrard to base it on.
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    (Original post by Murkery)
    ba_ba - you dont seem to understand how Gerrard made his name at Liverpool. At the academy he played a season at Right Back as well as in Midfield, when he broke into the reserves he was playing Right Back, and when he first broke into the first team under Houllier, he was played at Right back. He can defend, I've seen it with my own eyes.. Obviously when he is playing attacking midfield, where he has been employed more recently, it isnt his job to defend - but I'll tell you now, the guy most definately can defend - which is why he has become one of the best players in the world.

    I don't like it when Gerrard plays defensive midfield because he is wasted there, but apart from that he can play a conventional Center Mid, just behind the strikers, On the right wing, up front and at Full back... and I wouldnt complain about having Gerrard play any of those positions.



    STTTTEEEEEVVVVVEEEEEE GERRARD GERRARD
    HE'LL PASS THE BALL FORTY YARDS
    HE'S BIG AND HE'S ****IN HARD
    STEVE GERRARD GERRARD
    Well, I have to disagree with you there Murkery. I gree that when he plays DM he is wasted, because defending is definately not his strong point. When given the defensive duites he hasn't benn that good (CL final, Euro 2004). He can play many attacking positions very well (although upfront seems to be a bit of an over exageraton), but defensively, he is not disciplined enough.

    "Gerrard isnt even that good at tackling" - one example - Phil Neville by the corner flag at the start of the derby at the shithole this season... Best. Tackle. Ever.

    Exactly, thats all it is - one example. And it was on Phil Neville aswell.
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    (Original post by Raindance)
    If there was a team consisting of 11 of the same player, there would be noone better than Gerrard to base it on.
    Well... what about:

    "WE ALL DREAM OF A TEAM OF CARRAGHERS, A TEAM OF CARRAGHERS, A TEAM OF CARRAGHERS - NUMBER 1 IS CARRAGHER, NUMBER 2 IS CARRAGHER.............." And so on

    But nah your spot on, Gerrard does it all, so does Carra and so did Dom Matteo

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    (Original post by ba_ba1)
    Well, I have to disagree with you there Murkery. I gree that when he plays DM he is wasted, because defending is definately not his strong point. When given the defensive duites he hasn't benn that good (CL final, Euro 2004). He can play many attacking positions very well (although upfront seems to be a bit of an over exageraton), but defensively, he is not disciplined enough.

    "Gerrard isnt even that good at tackling" - one example - Phil Neville by the corner flag at the start of the derby at the shithole this season... Best. Tackle. Ever.

    Exactly, thats all it is - one example. And it was on Phil Neville aswell.
    :confused:

    You've completely ignored the facts in my post... He CAN play defensively, as thats how he made his name at the most succesful club in the UK, and one of, if not the biggest teams in Europe... If your "bad at defending" you don't become a starting right back at 19 for Liverpool Football Club - simple as that really.

    He IS good defensively, VERY good in fact - don't let the current position he plays cloud that fact.
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    (Original post by Murkery)
    Well... what about:

    "WE ALL DREAM OF A TEAM OF CARRAGHERS, A TEAM OF CARRAGHERS, A TEAM OF CARRAGHERS - NUMBER 1 IS CARRAGHER, NUMBER 2 IS CARRAGHER.............." And so on

    But nah your spot on, Gerrard does it all, so does Carra and so did Dom Matteo
    I dunno, you might be right. Carradonna can dance a pretty nifty dance. None better in terms of attitude anyway.
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    (Original post by Raindance)
    There were a few games last season, Middlesborough was one, where Cisse, Mellor, Pongolle, Baros, Morientes were all out injured. He started his career at right full back, and had to fill in again through injury last season, doing a job at it too. We've been through the defensive conundrum. He's got the attributes and ability to play as a defensive midfielder, but not the mentality or, perhaps, inclination. Let's put it this way. If there was a team consisting of 11 of the same player, there would be noone better than Gerrard to base it on.
    Against the big guns he has been poor defensively - read my posts. He hasn't got discipline - a key attribute to being a DM. The last sentence is a bit biased really. I'd rather have Nedved, Zambrotta, Vieira, Emerson or Cambiasso.
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    (Original post by ba_ba1)
    Against the big guns he has been poor defensively - read my posts. He hasn't got discipline - a key attribute to being a DM. The last sentence is a bit biased really. I'd rather have Nedved, Zambrotta, Vieira, Emerson or Cambiasso.
    Nedved's 32 mate, he's not as good as he used to be

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    (Original post by ba_ba1)
    Against the big guns he has been poor defensively
    God Give me Strength...

    Name me some other examples apart from one half against AC Milan?

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    (Original post by Raindance)
    I dunno, you might be right. Carradonna can dance a pretty nifty dance. None better in terms of attitude anyway.
    He's Scouse
    He's Sound
    He'll **** you with a pound
    CARRAGHER CARRAGHER
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    (Original post by Murkery)



    :confused:

    You've completely ignored the facts in my post... He CAN play defensively, as thats how he made his name at the most succesful club in the UK, and one of, if not the biggest teams in Europe... If your "bad at defending" you don't become a starting right back at 19 for Liverpool Football Club - simple as that really.

    He IS good defensively, VERY good in fact - don't let the current position he plays cloud that fact.
    zambrotta started off as a striker when he was at Bari - doesnt mean he's good at scoring goals, or shooting does it? He has made a good name for himself at liverpool more due to his attacking qualitities and great work rate.

    You seem to have ignored some of the facts in my post aswell :p:
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    (Original post by ba_ba1)
    Against the big guns he has been poor defensively - read my posts. He hasn't got discipline - a key attribute to being a DM. The last sentence is a bit biased really. I'd rather have Nedved, Zambrotta, Vieira, Emerson or Cambiasso.
    I do, and you refer constantly to AC Milan. Fortunately, that was not the only game he and Alonso played together. I don't see why we need to go into this. He doesn't and shouldn't play as defensive midfielder, end of. I'm just saying that he can tackle and tackle well as just another outlet of his game. And don't be silly, most of those players you mention are in their 30s and over the hill.
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    (Original post by Murkery)
    Nedved's 32 mate, he's not as good as he used to be

    --------------



    God Give me Strength...

    Name me some other examples apart from one half against AC Milan?

    --------------

    Nedved may not be as good as he used to be but he's still better than Gerrard IMO.

    Other examples - getting skinned by Serginho when playing at right back, Euro 2004.
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    (Original post by ba_ba1)
    zambrotta started off as a striker when he was at Bari - doesnt mean he's good at scoring goals, or shooting does it? He has made a good name for himself at liverpool more due to his attacking qualitities and great work rate.

    You seem to have ignored some of the facts in my post aswell :p:
    ****ING HELL...

    He made his name at Liverpool as a Right Back.. OK - CAN YOU READ? He Made his name at Liverpool AS A RIGHT BACK... not at attacking midfielder.
    When Stevie Heighway put him up into the ressies he put him there as a right back, when Thommo, Hughie McCauley and Stevie Heighway were discussing it with Houllier about wheter to play him, they were talking about im playing RIGHT BACK - He can defend - ask anyone connected with Liverpool football club.

    I dont give a **** if Zambrotta started as a striker but was ***** at it - Gerrard CAN PLAY right back, and is ****ing good defensively - you simply don't start at Right Back for Liverpool football club if you can't defend...
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    Vieria is on his way down.
    I suppose the majority of LFC fans will say they think gerrard is better.. and chelsea say lampard, not neccessarily because were biased but its because we see them week in week out. I can remember watching gerrard fill in excellently at right back on numerous times and doing it to the best ability of any right back in the world.
    Gerrard plays poorly in england, but so do half the team. Infact id go as far as to say only ashley cole,gary neville,robinson and rooney perform on a consistent basis for england. Gerrard does not suit the DM role as he lost that part of his game when he was nutured by houiller to play a attacking role. This is why he shines in liverpool because he has the defensive playmarker and the wrecking ball behind him so he does not have to split his roles between defence and attack.
    Lampard is a very consistent player, but his overall contribution to the team is nowere near as great as gerrards. If you compare the two players attribute for attribute they dont come close:
    Passing.. Gerrard wins, he has the anticipation to pull of the 40 yard cross field pass. Lampard is a average passer but gerrard is above average. (although neither are close to alonso)
    Consistency.. At the momment i have to agree lampard wins this hands down BUT gerrard has had 2 years of off the pitch problems due to the constant hassling from chelsea.
    Potential: Gerrard wins this one, with 3 years his junior on lampard he still has years to come before he hits his prime
    LEadership skills... Gerrard has really matured as captain this season and really took it seriously, lampard has spirit and leadership but he is not as influencial as gerrard.
    Ability to change a game: I cant think of any momments when lampard has grabbed the game by the scruff of the neck and dragged it back to revival(im sure a CFC can can) but i can recall two of the top of my head were gerrard has. Champions league (admitelly hammans intervention was crucial but before that goal we were going nowere), Portsmouth at home last year.. a boring stale match before gerrard smashes in a fantastic freekick and even Olympiakos at home with his wonderful volley. Altough admitelly pongos cameo was the major role, aswell as mellors.
    But i suppose well never agree
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    (Original post by Raindance)
    I do, and you refer constantly to AC Milan. Fortunately, that was not the only game he and Alonso played together. I don't see why we need to go into this. He doesn't and shouldn't play as defensive midfielder, end of. I'm just saying that he can tackle and tackle well as just another outlet of his game. And don't be silly, most of those players you mention are in their 30s and over the hill.
    Yes, he shouldnt play as a DM because he's not very good at defending! Theres more to defending than just tackling - a lot of attacking players can put in a half decent tackle when they want to.

    most of them are in their 30's?
    Zambrotta - 28 - peak of his game
    Emerson - 29 - ditto
    Vieira - 29 - ditto
    Nedved 33 - past his best
    Cambiasso - 25 - will only improve further.

    So out of those 5, only 1 was in their 30's and past it. Looks like you are the one who is being silly.
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    (Original post by ba_ba1)
    Nedved may not be as good as he used to be but he's still better than Gerrard IMO.

    Other examples - getting skinned by Serginho when playing at right back, Euro 2004.
    Ok, I'll give you some ****ing examples then, Worthington Cup Fina 2003 vs United, Every time we play the Blue*****, United at Anfield in 2001, Quarters and Semi's of Champs leaugue last season (Juve 1st leg and both legs vs Chelsea) Chelsea this year in the CL.. and so on and so on - Gerrard has easily put in more match winning, defensive as well as goalscoring performances than any other player at Liverpool
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    (Original post by ba_ba1)

    Other examples - getting skinned by Serginho when playing at right back, Euro 2004.
    He had serginho in his pocket in the final though, apart form the cross for shevs header.. yes one single cross well done.
 
 
 
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