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    (Original post by ba_ba1)
    Does your post actually have a point? and i dont see why this is brought up when we are talking about the NT.
    Yes it does, again, i find it worrying that you don't see the blindingly obvious.

    It does have relevance, as we're deconstructing your arguments...you say the Italian didn't cheat, video evidence confirms him to have done so, it is widely held perspective that he cheated by his deliberately trailing of left leg....and now, you say that there isn't that much of a match fixing problem/crisis in Italian football. This is all amounts to why people shouldn't take your opinions seriously....so it's all relevant, and not 'going off on a tangent' as such...
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    (Original post by ba_ba1)
    well what the hell do you expect? its hard when you're down to 10 men and the priority is not to concede since you'd probably go out. Australia held a lot of position but created nothing. They did not take advantage of italy going down to 10 while italy still looked dangerous when down to 10 (gattuso's cross, yaks shot over the bar). Australi have only themselves to blame for being toothless in attack.
    Which doesn't necessarily mean Australia deserved nothing. Italy were as defensive with 11 men as they were with 10. When they went foward it was with 2's and 3's rather than 6's and 7's. Italy had some chances (I emphasise the word some) but never bombarded the goal. All in all it was a close match IMO, and unlucky on Australia in the circumstances that Italy had already settled for extra time/penalties.
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    (Original post by ba_ba1)
    lazio, milan and fiorentina only had secondary roles. The main protaganit was juve and that scumbag moggi. Nothing to do with the italian NT.
    What tosh.
    There are no secondary roles in cheating, your either involved or not.
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    (Original post by white_haired_wizard)
    Yes it does, again, i find it worrying that you don't see the blindingly obvious.

    It does have relevance, as we're deconstructing your arguments...you say the Italian didn't cheat, video evidence confirms him to have done so, it is widely held perspective that he cheated by his deliberately trailing of left leg....and now, you say that there isn't that much of a match fixing problem/crisis in Italian football. This is all amounts to why people shouldn't take your opinions seriously....so it's all relevant, and not 'going off on a tangent' as such...
    i'm sorry? My opinion of the pen differs from you, yet you cant take that. You always have to be right. Video confirms nothing, and just because you think he dived does not mean it is a "widely held perspective". Listen to what the BBC pundits said. My opinion - Neil was impeding Grosso - penalty in my book.

    You've obviously got your facts wrong in the 2nd bit. I know there is a big match fixing scandal and i'm very ashamed of it. I hope whoever is guily is punsihed and it is eradicated from our game. Thing is, i'd rather not talk about it in a World Cup thread since it has no relevance.
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    (Original post by calderstonesLFC)
    What tosh.
    There are no secondary roles in cheating, your either involved or not.
    yep i think we should listen to you - you're obviously an expert on this topic.
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    (Original post by Sharpshooter)
    Which doesn't necessarily mean Australia deserved nothing. Italy were as defensive with 11 men as they were with 10. When they went foward it was with 2's and 3's rather than 6's and 7's. Italy had some chances (I emphasise the word some) but never bombarded the goal. All in all it was a close match IMO, and unlucky on Australia in the circumstances that Italy had already settled for extra time/penalties.
    Australia had possesion, but Italy had all the chances and it was a matter of time before they scored if Matrix hadnt been sent off.

    They obviously didnt settle for pens since Grosso was still going for it at the death. Dont see how Australia were "unlucky", though it was good to see Hiddink left with a bitter taste in his mouth after what happened 4 years ago.
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    (Original post by ba_ba1)
    Australia had possesion, but Italy had all the chances and it was a matter of time before they scored if Matrix hadnt been sent off.

    They obviously didnt settle for pens since Grosso was still going for it at the death. Dont see how Australia were "unlucky", though it was good to see Hiddink left with a bitter taste in his mouth after what happened 4 years ago.
    I agree. They weren't unlucky at all. As one of the pundits said at the time, they should have really gone for it in the last 20 minutes... but they didn't. You're not going to get a better opportunity to beat Italy than that, so frankly they only have themselves to blame.
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    (Original post by ba_ba1)
    i'm sorry? My opinion of the pen differs from you, yet you cant take that. You always have to be right. Video confirms nothing, and just because you think he dived does not mean it is a "widely held perspective". Listen to what the BBC pundits said. My opinion - Neil was impeding Grosso - penalty in my book.

    You've obviously got your facts wrong in the 2nd bit. I know there is a big match fixing scandal and i'm very ashamed of it. I hope whoever is guily is punsihed and it is eradicated from our game. Thing is, i'd rather not talk about it in a World Cup thread since it has no relevance.
    I am right, it's a fact. Fact is, it is widely held the Italian cheated thus to achieve the penalty, not because i said so....so stop spinning things. The BBC pundits - yes, we should adhere wholeheartedly to what they say because they are who they are :rolleyes:

    As to the match fixing, you lightheartedly looked at it, "Juventus, not Italy" - you were clearly making lightwork of the whole situation, it not only effects the top league in Italy, but most likely the league below the top league. It has huge repercussions, business, politics, loads of influences, effects and alike. It hardly reflects Italy in a good light, does it? I advise others to take your posts, and the opinions you 'articulate', with a pinch (make it a bloody big spoon...) of salt...
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    (Original post by ba_ba1)
    yep i think we should listen to you - you're obviously an expert on this topic.
    Well, you certainly aren't. Calderstones is spot on and re-iterates the points i made about the circumstances...
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    Switzerland set 2 new records today! They are the first team to go out of the World Cup without conceding a goal and they are the first side not to score a single penalty in a shoot-out (I had a feeling that they were and BBC confirmed it)
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    Even Andy Gray, the best pundit by far suggested it was nonsense to drop Lampard.

    He's had more shots than anyone else and hasn't scored, but people take that negatively, why? Surely if everyone could shoot if they wanted too, but they don't mainly because they can't.

    Lampard's always gets into good shooting positions which is a skill, not everyone can do that, cause they would all shoot on sight and get 20+ goals a season. He'll undoubtedly get some against Portugal and hopefully some he'll take.
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    (Original post by white_haired_wizard)
    I am right, it's a fact. Fact is, it is widely held the Italian cheated thus to achieve the penalty, not because i said so....so stop spinning things. The BBC pundits - yes, we should adhere wholeheartedly to what they say because they are who they are :rolleyes:

    As to the match fixing, you lightheartedly looked at it, "Juventus, not Italy" - you were clearly making lightwork of the whole situation, it not only effects the top league in Italy, but most likely the league below the top league. It has huge repercussions, business, politics, loads of influences, effects and alike. It hardly reflects Italy in a good light, does it? I advise others to take your posts, and the opinions you 'articulate', with a pinch (make it a bloody big spoon...) of salt...
    Thats not a fact! again, just because you think it was a dive does not mean that is what is widely held. Ignore my point about the BBC pundits then - but its more proof that what you're saying is not the "widely held fact" that you are making it out to be.:rolleyes:

    As for the 2nd para - you're wrong - i was making the distinction between juve and the NT since the NT had nothing to do with the current scandal. If you wanna talka bout the scandal though, we'll do it in another thread. You must be very deluded though if you think this kind of stuff only happens in Italy! Look mate, just because my opnions on some issues differ from yours, you dont have to start telling other people "dont listen to this guy". Its totally out of order.
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    (Original post by ba_ba1)
    i'm sorry? My opinion of the pen differs from you, yet you cant take that. You always have to be right. Video confirms nothing, and just because you think he dived does not mean it is a "widely held perspective". Listen to what the BBC pundits said. My opinion - Neil was impeding Grosso - penalty in my book.

    You've obviously got your facts wrong in the 2nd bit. I know there is a big match fixing scandal and i'm very ashamed of it. I hope whoever is guily is punsihed and it is eradicated from our game. Thing is, i'd rather not talk about it in a World Cup thread since it has no relevance.
    Actually video footage proves that hes a cheat, his feet are off the floor even before contact is made, the aussie defender was on the floor a long while before he 'tripped' him plenty of room to side step around if he wanted to but no me jumped over/into him with a trailing leg as he was diving to the ground to roll around.

    Hes going to win an oscar this year for that dive. SHAME ON HIM what a disgrase to the game
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    BTW Alan Curbishley said it was a pen!

    so much for saying it is "a widely held fact" that it was a dive:confused:
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    (Original post by tinnttintin)
    Actually video footage proves that hes a cheat, his feet are off the floor even before contact is made, the aussie defender was on the floor a long while before he 'tripped' him plenty of room to side step around if he wanted to but no me jumped over/into him with a trailing leg as he was diving to the ground to roll around.

    Hes going to win an oscar this year for that dive. SHAME ON HIM what a disgrase to the game
    he doesnt have to side step him/jump over since as soon as he's gone to the floor, Neil is impeding Grosso's path. Grosso doesnt have to go round him.
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    (Original post by ba_ba1)
    Thats not a fact! again, just because you think it was a dive does not mean that is what is widely held. Ignore my point about the BBC pundits then - but its more proof that what you're saying is not the "widely held fact" that you are making it out to be.:rolleyes:

    As for the 2nd para - you're wrong - i was making the distinction between juve and the NT since the NT had nothing to do with the current scandal. If you wanna talka bout the scandal though, we'll do it in another thread. You must be very deluded though if you think this kind of stuff only happens in Italy! Look mate, just because my opnions on some issues differ from yours, you dont have to start telling other people "dont listen to this guy". Its totally out of order.
    It is a fact - video evidence. Anyway, people don't need to listen to me and my opinions, they can construct their own interpretations of your 'arguments', but i'd expect them to come to similar conclusions as to my own, and some, (soon-to-be-many i'm confident...) have already done so it seems.
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    (Original post by ba_ba1)
    BTW Alan Curbishley said it was a pen!

    so much for saying it is "a widely held fact" that it was a dive:confused:
    Just because one man says he thinks it was a penalty, it doesn't mean it's NOT a 'widely held fact'...

    I pray you're being sarcastic with your comment there. Otherwise, you're more deluded than i thought you were...
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    (Original post by white_haired_wizard)
    It is a fact - video evidence. Anyway, people don't need to listen to me and my opinions, they can construct their own interpretations of your 'arguments', but i'd expect them to come to similar conclusions as to my own, and some, (soon-to-be-many i'm confident...) have already done so it seems.
    thats not a fact - the video evidence is still open to interpretation.

    Yes i'm sure everyone agrees with you.:rolleyes:

    Did you not here what the BBC and ITV pundits had to say about it?
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    (Original post by ba_ba1)
    he doesnt have to side step him/jump over since as soon as he's gone to the floor, Neil is impeding Grosso's path. Grosso doesnt have to go round him.

    Hmm however he was already faling to the ground before contact was made, so there was no impedment,

    and as for the BBC pundits
    (Original post by http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/world_cup_2006/4991534.stm)
    ... worked his way into the box before falling over Lucas Neill's prone body.
    falling over him... not tripped impeeded or anything else just fell. hence not a penalty and hence a cheat. I dont think ive ever seen an italian game where no player goes to ground of his own accord and rolls around like a chimp as if hes been shot.
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    (Original post by white_haired_wizard)
    Just because one man says he thinks it was a penalty, it doesn't mean it's NOT a 'widely held fact'...

    I pray you're being sarcastic with your comment there. Otherwise, you're more deluded than i thought you were...
    i was just giving one example. Alot more people have said it was a pen aswell.

    Nice to see how you ignored some of my other comments.
 
 
 
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