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    Italy and Serie A have gone past the "always defensive" stage. Teams like Milan, Roma and Inter play fantastic football and the likes of Juve are now the exception rather than the norm.
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    (Original post by Naranoc)
    Well, if you'd read what they said carefully you'll notice that they pretty much agreed with you:

    [/b]

    Though no one can dispute that Italy's attack was fantastic in this match, you must admit that during previous games they have resorted to the 'sitting back' technique, e.g. during the first half of the Ukraine game. Only when Ukraine began to look threatening in the 2nd half did they retaliate.
    not really. Italy were still creating the better chances in the first half - Ukraine created nothing. In this tournament we have only resorted to sitting back when we were a man down, and this is understandable IMO.
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    (Original post by ba_ba1)
    IMO Ballack looked tired but he was outnumbered. Totti dropped very deep and at times it was as if Italy were playing with 5 across midfield. I would have brought in Scweinsteiger for Klose/Podolski and given Ballack more freedom.

    Klinsmann has done very well though throughout the WC given his lack of experience. Germany definately overperformed for the talent they have. Semi finals is a good result.
    :ditto:
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    (Original post by Naranoc)
    Well, if you'd read what they said carefully you'll notice that they pretty much agreed with you:

    [/b]

    Though no one can dispute that Italy's attack was fantastic in this match, you must admit that during previous games they have resorted to the 'sitting back' technique, e.g. during the first half of the Ukraine game. Only when Ukraine began to look threatening in the 2nd half did they retaliate.
    Phew. At least someone understands my point. That's exactly it. They often need a push by a threatening side to get going.

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    (Original post by ba_ba1)
    not really. Italy were still creating the better chances in the first half - Ukraine created nothing. In this tournament we have only resorted to sitting back when we were a man down, and this is understandable IMO.
    no-one disputes that they dont create chances on the counter though. thats their play, defend when on the up and then break at the opportunity.
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    Ukraine were poor, and Italy clearly couldn't be asked to work in the first half after the early goal (yes, I watched the match). It's not hard work creating chances against Ukraine, since you're bound to score pretty much every time you do. Italy's lack of participation in the first half was one of the primary reasons why that was one of the most boring matches in the cup (minus Ukraine-Switzerland of course.)
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    (Original post by ba_ba1)
    IMO Ballack looked tired but he was outnumbered. Totti dropped very deep and at times it was as if Italy were playing with 5 across midfield. I would have brought in Scweinsteiger for Klose/Podolski and given Ballack more freedom.

    Klinsmann has done very well though throughout the WC given his lack of experience. Germany definately overperformed for the talent they have. Semi finals is a good result.
    I thought Klinsmann played for Arsenal? I would assume he would have had quite a bit of practice.
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    (Original post by Evil-Tuna)
    Agreed.
    seconded
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    (Original post by Economist)
    I dont care how a player looks, im not gay. Tony Adams is my favourite player of all time yet he resembles a donkey.

    I dont care if he only comes up with one 'hollywood' ball which leads to a goal and doesnt do much else. It's far better than a player who creates 100 small chances which we never score. You say J.Cole created sparks yet apart from the goal and the assist in the Sweden game he didnt little else. Against a good defence he was really exposed and showed that he isnt a left winger.

    'Becks-tinted specs'. As an Arsenal fan I had and still have no reason to support Becks apart from what he does for England. I recognise him as a decent player who created pretty much everything in our warm up games and scored/assisted half our goals this world cup. You can have Lennon if you want but for all his time on the pitch and the runs he made there was no end product. Becks wasnt at his best but there isnt anything better on offer at the moment

    I'm not saying you're gay, was getting at something more subconscious. I'm just looking for reasons why someone would want a one-trick pony in their team. Let's say it was an unglamourous West Brom player who didn't have a 'pop star' wife and all the riches and media focus on his private life. let's say this W Brom player was ugly, and didn't get a flash new haircut before most major international competitions. Let's say this guy wasn't so cool and wore standard un-embroidered, un-branded boots. This guy lives in Wolverhampton. This guy is a dead-ball specialist, and can't do much more than that. If it was any other player he would have been dropped by now have a think...seriously.
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    Why do Germans play YNWA?
    Ive noticed it at leverkusen and now today..
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    (Original post by Evil-Tuna)
    I thought Klinsmann played for Arsenal? I would assume he would have had quite a bit of practice.
    you mean Lehman?
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    (Original post by Evil-Tuna)
    I thought Klinsmann played for Arsenal? I would assume he would have had quite a bit of practice.
    Think you mean Tottenham.
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    (Original post by ba_ba1)
    ****ing hell, did you come up with all that by yourself? I'm very impressed, you must be very clever .
    Its the green. It inspires! Seriously, makes you work like a genius if youre not a genius.
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    (Original post by Klinsmannic)
    I'm not saying you're gay, was getting at something more subconscious. I'm just looking for reasons why someone would want a one-trick pony in their team. Let's say it was an unglamourous West Brom player who didn't have a 'pop star' wife and all the riches and media focus on his private life. let's say this W Brom player was ugly, and didn't get a flash new haircut before most major international competitions. Let's say this guy wasn't so cool and wore standard un-embroidered, un-branded boots. This guy lives in Wolverhampton. This guy is a dead-ball specialist, and can't do much more than that. If it was any other player he would have been dropped by now have a think...seriously.
    Not if half of England's goals came through him he wouldnt be dropped
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    (Original post by Evil-Tuna)
    no-one disputes that they dont create chances on the counter though. thats their play, defend when on the up and then break at the opportunity.
    Italy (Lippi) dont play possesion football. That doesnt mean they are a defensive team.

    I dont see why Italy get singled out either? Argentina went all defensive against Germany yet noone called them defensive or boring.

    Lippi deserves credit for throwing on 4 forwards in extra time (probably coz he knew we would lose of it went to pens!). I doubt many other managers would have done that.
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    (Original post by #2(Laika))
    you mean Lehman?
    Oh yeah. Damn their similar German names! :p:
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    (Original post by Evil-Tuna)
    Oh yeah. Damn their similar German names! :p:
    LOL
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    (Original post by ba_ba1)
    Italy (Lippi) dont play possesion football. That doesnt mean they are a defensive team.

    I dont see why Italy get singled out either? Argentina went all defensive against Germany yet noone called them defensive or boring.

    Lippi deserves credit for throwing on 4 forwards in extra time (probably coz he knew we would lose of it went to pens!). I doubt many other managers would have done that.
    Well in terms of being the so-called dirty players Italy and Argentina often get grouped together on that one. That might make up for it. :p:
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    (Original post by Evil-Tuna)
    Ok, Ok, points taken. In terms of most teams playing like Italy, that's not true, look at the Czcehs for example (yeah i know theyre out etc but its a point about the way they play)

    There are some teams that are far more attacking than defensive. On the whole I would say Italy is more defensive than the average world cup team.
    I didn't say most teams played like Italy, however you perceive Italy to play. I said almost all teams played on the break for parts of every game. The 4-5-1 formation, common in the Premirship nowadays, is a tell-tale sign that managers like to play on the counter because a 4-5-1 translates to a 4-3-3 in attack. Sides that play the double-pivot, ie two holding players, are likely to also sit back for periods and get the ball to wide areas after the opposition attack breaks down. The Czechs played more of a diamond, but aside from the first game, it was awful to watch them resorting to the long-balls up to Lokvenc. You point out an exception...lots of today's teams get much success from a strong defense and good counter play- look at Chelsea. Even the Germans tried it tonight.
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    (Original post by Klinsmannic)
    I didn't say most teams played like Italy, however you perceive Italy to play. I said almost all teams played on the break for parts of every game. The 4-5-1 formation, common in the Premirship nowadays, is a tell-tale sign that managers like to play on the counter because a 4-5-1 translates to a 4-3-3 in attack. Sides that play the double-pivot, ie two holding players, are likely to also sit back for periods and get the ball to wide areas after the opposition attack breaks down. The Czechs played more of a diamond, but aside from the first game, it was awful to watch them resorting to the long-balls up to Lokvenc. You point out an exception...lots of today's teams get much success from a strong defense and good counter play- look at Chelsea. Even the Germans tried it tonight.
    Hmm. Interesting points there. It's a pity it didn't work for England. Some of their games were really terrible to watch.

    Also I'm sorry if I mis-interpreted slightly, having 3 people jump on you in a space of a few minutes in the same thread, can sometimes do that.
 
 
 
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