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    First read this

    Do you think Google are somehow condoning restrictions of freedom speech in order to capitalise on China's growing economy, or are they reluctantly obeying the Chinese govenment's wishes in order to provide a better service to millions of web users?
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    the 2nd
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    a mixture
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    (Original post by cheesecakebobby)
    First read this

    Do you think Google are somehow condoning restrictions of freedom speech in order to capitalise on China's growing economy, or are they reluctantly obeying the Chinese govenment's wishes in order to provide a better service to millions of web users?
    The first. Google exists to profit, not to spread liberty. If i wasnt so apathetic id stop using it.
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    funnily enough a classmate did a speech on google today at school he talked about how the chinese government bans certain websites including some of googles searches to prevent china from knowing about a massive massacre which happened in which protestors were murdered by the army. i dont think google are relunctantly doing their job i think they are just cooperating to prevent any...."tense situations"
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    (Original post by cheesecakebobby)
    First read this

    Do you think Google are somehow condoning restrictions of freedom speech in order to capitalise on China's growing economy, or are they reluctantly obeying the Chinese govenment's wishes in order to provide a better service to millions of web users?
    the latter
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    Closer to the latter than the former, although it must be remembered that Google is, at the end of the day, a business - "Don't be Evil" notwithstanding. It has been argued that anything is better than nothing, regarding search facilities etc. To me, though, a stronger argument than that is the following:

    If the only way to get at pro-democracy sites is by hacking the system, then the pro-democracy movement may well move into the shadowy world of hackers and such. If it does, it will be much harder for Beijing to either stamp it out or curb it. Which is surely a good thing.
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    Give Google a break. China is going to be the worlds strongest economy very soon, and the people at Google know this, not to mention how many Chinesse are connected to the net. They want to be in on that market, and fair play! And the only way to do that is provide a censored search engine, or nothing at all, because of the laws of the Chinese government.

    On another note, its funny watching the American congress try and use this against google who are resisting the demand by Bush to reveal search engine data. They claim its for protection against child porno etc, but what would stop them from using it for other things?....

    Go Google
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    Google are out to make money. They talk about principles because they think it's profitable to talk about principles. In the US case the request is to gain access with Google controlling acccess, which limits it. In China's case, Google have absolutely ceded control to the government. As the chinese government bears responsibility in the recent past for the deaths of tens of millions of Chinese citizens- one of the things the government no doubt wants kept quiet- it shows that Googlew will only submit to forcibly-imposed threats to its profits.
    .
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    (Original post by Stranksy)
    Give Google a break. China is going to be the worlds strongest economy very soon, and the people at Google know this, not to mention how many Chinesse are connected to the net. They want to be in on that market, and fair play! And the only way to do that is provide a censored search engine, or nothing at all, because of the laws of the Chinese government.
    Give them a break? Why? Interesting that you believe ethics to be totally unimportant in the fact of prospective profits.
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    I should surmise that Google will be condoning restrictions on freedom of speech in order to capitalise on China's growing economy by reluctantly obeying the Chinese government's wishes so as to provide a better service to millions of web users.
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    It's just business.

    Don't forget that MSN and Yahoo have already agreed to the censorship. I think it's good that the restricted searches are shown to be censored because it will make users aware how much censorship the government impose. This could even increase anti-government sentiment.
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    (Original post by John82)
    It's just business.

    Don't forget that MSN and Yahoo have already agreed to the censorship. I think it's good that the restricted searches are shown to be censored because it will make users aware how much censorship the government impose. This could even increase anti-government sentiment.
    I do believe that neither microsoft or yahoo claim to live by the mantra, "don't be evil". I can confidently say that allowing a totalitarian regime to hide the killings and atrocities it has perpetuated on its own people from those people is pretty evil.
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    Having a censored google is better than not having one at all. And by telling them what pages are censored, it will be easier for the Chinese to see what exactly is being hidden from them - perhaps leading the more inquisitive among them to go off and find out more.

    --------------

    (Original post by Weejimmie)
    They talk about principles because they think it's profitable to talk about principles.
    How do you know? I don't see why the people in charge of large businesses can't have some notion of morality.
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    (Original post by The Ace is Back)

    How do you know? I don't see why the people in charge of large businesses can't have some notion of morality.
    I don't see why people in charge of large businesses shouldn't have some notion of morality- usualy a notion of mnorality that means people who run large businesses should be very well pai and their workers as badly paid as they can make them.
    In the specific case of Google we can tell what their notion of morality is from the way they behave. With a country that gives a cvonstitutional right to privacy to its citizens it will resist allowing any government interference for any reason. With a country that allows its subjects no rights it will co-operate exactly in restricting the information available and allowing the government access to records. Their notion of morality is entirely dependent on what they think will make them most money.
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    (Original post by Weejimmie)
    I don't see why people in charge of large businesses shouldn't have some notion of morality- usualy a notion of mnorality that means people who run large businesses should be very well pai and their workers as badly paid as they can make them.
    In the specific case of Google we can tell what their notion of morality is from the way they behave. With a country that gives a cvonstitutional right to privacy to its citizens it will resist allowing any government interference for any reason. With a country that allows its subjects no rights it will co-operate exactly in restricting the information available and allowing the government access to records. Their notion of morality is entirely dependent on what they think will make them most money.
    Or perhaps they would like as much of the world to have as much access to information as is possible, and have realised that if they don't comply with the Chinese government there won't be a Google in China for people to use at all.

    Point taken about 'morality' - but you know what I meant
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    (Original post by The Ace is Back)
    Or perhaps they would like as much of the world to have as much access to information as is possible, and have realised that if they don't comply with the Chinese government there won't be a Google in China for people to use at all.

    P
    If the Google that would be available would be a compliant with the wishes of the chinese government, why not let the chinese government have the trouble and expense of providing what they think a suitable search engine while Google provides the real unsullied thing to those that can get through to it? Google is selling its claims to morality to a bunch of murderous criminals here.
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    I think... it depends. If Google really is as moral as it says it is, then maybe it sees China as a necessary evil. China is getting richer, and if Google doesn't go into China then the Chinese government will just make their own, entirely self-controlled search engine. Which would no doubt be much, much worse. As it is, Google can use at least a little power in what is shown.

    But who knows. Maybe they have no morals, and are just out for money.
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    *Might start using Google.ca* - after all, isn't it lovely to live in a world of black and white moral absolutes?
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    (Original post by The Ace is Back)
    Having a censored google is better than not having one at all.
    Exactly. If google tried to give the Chinese their standard search engine, they would not get business at all, it was either, a)give them a censored search engine, or, b)give them nothing, because they won't accept an uncensored version.

    Google is a business. China is the biggest growing market. They would have to stupid not to do what they have done. And just because they gave them a censored version, doesn't mean they agree with the Chinese government.

    Bush trying to request information is different. Google has every right to refuse that, because thats direct violation of peoples privacy and information.

    You can't compare the two cases, because one is business, and the other is about peoples privacy. They have done everything right so far, and the only ones who see differently are the ones who agree with Bush, and that want Google to hand over information, so are going around trying to give Google a bad image so they will concede and give the information.

    You have to remember, Google is a business.
 
 
 
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