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    (Original post by Bismarck)
    Go find some pictures of Serbs, Croats, and Bosniaks, and tell me if you can see any difference. I don't see increased wealth doing much to end the Basque insurgency in Spain and France.
    As countries get wealthier, the publics interest in politics rises and then it drops, peasents don't care much for politics, then traders and workers care about how it affects them, and then politics becomes a backdrop, with a largely apathetic attitude by the majority.
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    (Original post by Bismarck)
    Genocides are stopped only if the perceived sacrifice is tiny, since realistically speaking, no benefits are derived from preventing a genocide.
    You're forgetting the political pressure from within the sacrificial country as to act or do nothing. And that has a lot more IMO to do with WHO we are saving and WHERE we are saving them than perceived sacrifice.
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    (Original post by Howard)
    How would that help? Do you think our fictional Hitler would give a toss? This is a man who is busy systematically gassing 6 million people at a rate of 50,000 a day. I don't think a sharp rebuke from the UN is going to lose him much sleep.
    They could threaten Hitler with war and just extract the jewish people, and anyone else who wanted to leave, which would leave Hitler with a small population and the realisation that it wasn't the multiculture or Jews doing all the stealing, raping and general evilness and creating a decadent society.
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    (Original post by Howard)
    You're forgetting the political pressure from within the sacrificial country as to act or do nothing. And that has a lot more IMO to do with WHO we are saving and WHERE we are saving them than perceived sacrifice.
    So where are the troops in Sudan? Where were the troops in Bosnia when it mattered? I agree with the "where" part, but that's because countries don't want a mess in their backyard or in a strategically important region, not because they're willing to act just to stop the suffering.

    (Original post by silent p......?)
    As countries get wealthier, the publics interest in politics rises and then it drops, peasents don't care much for politics, then traders and workers care about how it affects them, and then politics becomes a backdrop, with a largely apathetic attitude by the majority.
    A vast majority of Yugoslavs lived in cities, and were no less educated than Brits.

    (Original post by silent p......?)
    They could threaten Hitler with war and just extract the jewish people, and anyone else who wanted to leave, which would leave Hitler with a small population and the realisation that it wasn't the multiculture or Jews doing all the stealing, raping and general evilness and creating a decadent society.
    You threatening to wage war wouldn't be very credible if your ideology is vehemently anti-war, would it?
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    (Original post by silent p......?)
    They could threaten Hitler with war and just extract the jewish people, and anyone else who wanted to leave, which would leave Hitler with a small population and the realisation that it wasn't the multiculture or Jews doing all the stealing, raping and general evilness and creating a decadent society.
    Well, they threatened Hitler with war if he invaded Poland; didn't stop him though did it?
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    (Original post by Bismarck)
    A vast majority of Yugoslavs lived in cities, and were no less educated than Brits.

    You threatening to wage war wouldn't be very credible if your ideology is vehemently anti-war, would it?
    But the yugoslavs have less to do, they are in a very desolete place, few places to go, nothing good to watch, onyl a couple of decent cinemas, so they turn to politics and parties get a lot of support especially far right.

    The ideology isn't anti war, its just anti war if the losses outweigh the gains by about 800% based on "calculations" by the generals and actuaries I imagine.
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    (Original post by Bluelight)
    Without specific reference to the Iraq war , but using instances of war, do you think that war is ever justifiable morally?
    Yes.
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    (Original post by Howard)
    Well, they threatened Hitler with war if he invaded Poland; didn't stop him though did it?
    Hitler thought they were bluffing, he assumed they would just make a big fuss out of it then let him take it, he was hoping for a little war with poland just to test out his military muscle, he wouldn't have invaded if he knew he was going to start a war. (a big war)
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    (Original post by Bismarck)
    So where are the troops in Sudan? Where were the troops in Bosnia when it mattered? I agree with the "where" part, but that's because countries don't want a mess in their backyard or in a strategically important region, not because they're willing to act just to stop the suffering.
    Sudan is an excellent example. There's nothing in Sudan that anybody wants (so that takes care of the WHERE) and the Sudanese are nothing more than a bunch of Sudanese so not a very important group of people (so there's tje WHO)

    Bosnia is different. That was more of an example of lazy Europeans waiting for the US to do the job and spend the money (because we knew you would ) Why go to war yourself when there's a sucker willing to do it for you?
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    (Original post by silent p......?)
    Hitler thought they were bluffing, he assumed they would just make a big fuss out of it then let him take it, he was hoping for a little war with poland just to test out his military muscle, he wouldn't have invaded if he knew he was going to start a war. (a big war)
    Yes. No need for a GCSE history lesson thank you very much. Lets try to stay on cue.
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    (Original post by Howard)
    Yes. No need for a GCSE history lesson thank you very much. Lets try to stay on cue.
    It's mini revison for me. I don't make much sense anyway on topic. It always turns into some curved equation for some reason.

    War is moral, especially so if you haven't started it, even so with large losses "predicted".
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    (Original post by Howard)
    Sudan is an excellent example. There's nothing in Sudan that anybody wants (so that takes care of the WHERE) and the Sudanese are nothing more than a bunch of Sudanese so not a very important group of people (so there's tje WHO)

    Bosnia is different. That was more of an example of lazy Europeans waiting for the US to do the job and spend the money (because we knew you would ) Why go to war yourself when there's a sucker willing to do it for you?
    As my British lecturer said about Bosnia today, the French were willing to intervene if others would do so as well, the Germans were willing to intervene as long as no Germans were actually involved in the intervention, the Americans were willing to intervene only if someone else paid for the intervention, and the British just didn't want to intervene. Kind of funny if it wasn't so tragic.
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    (Original post by Bismarck)
    As my British lecturer said about Bosnia today, the French were willing to intervene if others would do so as well, the Germans were willing to intervene as long as no Germans were actually involved in the intervention, the Americans were willing to intervene only if someone else paid for the intervention, and the British just didn't want to intervene. Kind of funny if it wasn't so tragic.
    Lol!
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    The practical argument:

    Pale Ebenezer thought it wrong to fight
    But Roaring Bill, who killed him, thought it right.
 
 
 
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