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Should anti-Islam cartoons have been published ??? watch

  • View Poll Results: Should "anti-Islam" cartoons have been published ???
    Yes
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    58.59%
    No
    82
    41.41%

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    (Original post by Mr.Chavez)
    j4mes - do you know how many Dr.Ahmeds there are in the Uk..? lol

    fact is that there is such an inter-reliance between continents these days that the idea of driving all westerners out of the middle eat, and all middle easterners out of the west is stupid.
    yes much of the limited propserity of the middle east is due to oil, but wake up sunshine, that isn't going change any time soon. especially given the wests unquenchable thirst for it.
    similary they aren't going to be majorly investing into research for new drugs or technology anytime soon, so without us would still be back in the stone age. (well the victorian ages).

    but thats where we hit a problem. if we completely halted trade, and oil prices went up a thousand fold. we'd be the ones hardest hit.
    why? because we don't have faith. we put all our effort into this world, and have little faith in the next. they are the opposite. they would be much less hard hit not least as they have less to lose.
    and thats why we have to deal with these issues diplomatically, and not like some ultra-nationalist bull in a china shop.

    in simple terms. We need the middle east - the arabs, more than they need us.
    To be honest sunshine, it doesn't quite concern me about how many Mr. Ahmeds are there in UK. None of my business, if I may add.

    Additionally, I NEVER mentioned all Middle Eastern needs driven off our shores & all Europeans driven off the Middle Eastern soil. But since you quite successfully FAILED to notice that & merely made a rather puerile assumption there, it seems you intellect has sink to ocenic-low depth

    You need checking the figures of Middle Eastern Imports & Exports to Europe & vice versa first & that would clear things up about all the misunderstanding that you seem to have proved within your post

    Try enlightening yourself with the fact that Middle East may be the BIGGEST exporters of oil but certainly NOT the ONLY ONE :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by j4mes_bond25)
    To be honest sunshine, it doesn't quite concern me about how many Mr. Ahmeds are there in UK. None of my business, if I may add.

    Additionally, I NEVER mentioned all Middle Eastern needs driven off our shores & all Europeans driven off the Middle Eastern soil. But since you quite successfully FAILED to notice that & merely made a rather puerile assumption there, it seems you intellect has sink to ocenic-low depth

    You need checking the figures of Middle Eastern Imports & Exports to Europe & vice versa first & that would clear things up about all the misunderstanding that you seem to have proved within your post

    Try enlightening yourself with the fact that Middle East may be the BIGGEST exporters of oil but certainly NOT the ONLY ONE :rolleyes:
    it doesn't have to be the only one. being the mastermind you are, you would realise that halving supply of oil would not just push up price to double, but would send it sky rocketing to far beyond that. simple market economics really. Then theres the protectionsim thing - something us europeans know o so well. So america will keep all its oil for itself, and force some countries to give it their oil (by force i mean tie in certain 'aid' and trade deals to oil supply). russia and china of course will safe guard their own. Africa is a mess as ever. Venezual under Chez Chavez will send their oil to the latin countries preferentially.
    so europe is left with euro oil (of which there is so little compared with demand) and a trickle of supply from the likes of russia and frica(afdrica is a mess, russia would use the opportunity to supply those less critical of its policies).

    import and export balance sheets - my dear man you really haven't thought this through.
    oil forms the basic unit for a vast array of products. its an essential component for just about every synthetic material. which are essential compnents in much of manufacturing.
    if saudia arabia buys 2 billion quids worth more from us than we buy from them, and their imports are all complex goods like cars, computers, pharmaceutics, and ours are all oil...which do you think loses out more from loss of that trade? what if i told you that that 2 billions worth of oil we bought from them was essential for the production of 400 billions worth of other export goods - most of which go to other countries.
    we lose the oil, we lose all those exports.

    [Note figures are plucked from thin air. the concept isn't]
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    Both the presidents of France and US have condemned the overt provocation to Islam caused by the printing of offensive cartoons.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4693628.stm

    What say you now?
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    (Original post by yawn)
    What say you now?
    What's your point? Do you think everyones minds will suddenly change because a President has "condemned" the subject?

    I for one am not gullable and misguided enough to have my thoughts dictated by someone else quite so easily.
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    Nice one George, I couldn't think of a more rational, sensitive, perceptive bloke.
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    A thousand words to say what exactly? Things we already know I'm assuming? That a hardcore element of Islam is besmirching the vast majority of moderate Muslims? That the response within the Islamic world has been well over the top, but it is well within their liberty to protest on their own soil? That a handful of idiots in London are giving respectable Muslims a bad name and are an affront to our liberal way of life? What are you bringing to the discussion with this?

    How is this thread aimed at creating a debate? You merely post an image and expect the anti-Islamic contingent to support you? A detailed analysis of the situation is required, something that is being avoided in favour of vast generalisations and provocation – on both sides.
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    This is a prime example of the media controlling your minds, only the BNP...blah blah blah.

    It is not a duty of government to censor the media and as far as I’m concerned it never will be. The media and citizens should know that with freedom of speech comes responsibility. In lieu of the events that are taking place in the Islamic world, am I alone in being one of the few non-Islamic citizens that views these cartoons suspiciously? We witness this exaggerated reaction and suggest it is because these people are merely "barbaric" and have no concept of freedom of speech, but isn't it (in their eyes at least), another example of how the West does not respect the Islamic worlds way of life?

    I for one don't respect their way of life; I'm only interested in an objective analysis of this whole affair.
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    (Original post by Jacques Derrida)
    A thousand words to say what exactly? Things we already know I'm assuming? That a hardcore element of Islam is besmirching the vast majority of moderate Muslims? That the response within the Islamic world has been well over the top, but it is well within their liberty to protest on their own soil? That a handful of idiots in London are giving respectable Muslims a bad name and are an affront to our liberal way of life? What are you bringing to the discussion with this?

    How is this thread aimed at creating a debate? You merely post an image and expect the anti-Islamic contingent to support you? A detailed analysis of the situation is required, something that is being avoided in favour of vast generalisations and provocation – on both sides.
    Not at all, don't be paranoid.

    This picture illustrates the disproportionate response from the Muslim world to the publication of some cartoons of Mohammed - i.e. the commissioning of Holocaust cartoons by the Iranian government.
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    (Original post by Jonathan12)
    Not at all, don't be paranoid.

    This picture illustrates the disproportionate response from the Muslim world to the publication of some cartoons of Mohammed - i.e. the commissioning of Holocaust cartoons by the Iranian government.
    The Iranian Government is an Islamo-fascist cabal and is not representative of the Muslim world. It will not exist for much longer.
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    http://michellemalkin.com/archives/004505.htm


    THE LYING DANISH IMAMS

    By Michelle Malkin · February 08, 2006 12:57 PM

    The Islamists' Bogus Blasphemous Cartoons

    I just received a tip from a reader in Denmark with more info about the lying delegation of Danish imams who fabricated anti-Muslim artwork and pinned it on the Jyllands-Posten in December to stoke the jihadists. (See Scott Johnson's round-up at Power Line.)

    In addition to the fake drawings and photos and the other lies included in the Danish imams' propaganda pamphlet posted over at The Counterterrorism Blog, my reader reports that Danish radio has enumerated additional falsehoods.

    The imams reportedly spread lies that the Jyllands-Posten had 120 cartoons, not 12, and that the paper was owned by the government. (There are no state-run newspapers in Denmark.) In addition, the imams reportedly claimed that the Danish government would censor the Koran, burn the Koran, and that Danes were planning to make a blasphemous movie about Mohammed.

    The full Danish radio report is here.

    It's in Danish and I'm looking for someone who has the time to do a full English translation. Thanks.

    Meanwhile, Dennis at Neander News has more on the Danish press exposing the fraudulent Danish imams and confronting one of them, Ahmed Akkari. Here's the cover of Ekstrabladet:



    Power Line notes another truth-evading interview with Akkari by the CBC.

    ***
    I linked to Paul Belien's post on The Cartoon Hoax yesterday, but it's definitely worth revisiting and quoting at length until the rest of the mainstream media catch up (if ever):

    When the Danish press discovered the three false so-called Danish cartoons, the imams refused to say where they had got them. They claimed, however, that the false cartoons were genuinely Danish and had been added to “give an insight in how hateful the atmosphere in Denmark is towards Muslims.”
    The Brussels Journal has always doubted whether the cartoons added by the imams were genuine. Whenever we mentioned them we explicitly wondered whether they were not “of the imam’s own making.” Certain Western mainstream media, however, such as the Australian network SBS and the British BBC authoritatively declared that the pigsnout was one of Jyllands-Posten’s cartoons.

    Yesterday an American blogger discovered where the “pigsnout Muhammad” comes from. It has no relation to Muhammad whatsoever, it is not even a cartoon, but a fax image of a photo of a French clown performing at a pig festival.

    Denmark is being punished at the instigation of radical imams because twelve cartoonists have depicted Muhammad. However, these imams created their own three Muhammad images. They have even presented a French clown as being Muhammad. Because the twelve JP cartoonists are not Muslims, the Muslim blasphemy laws do not apply to them. But these laws do apply to the imams. Consequently, these imams deserve death. They – and no-one else – depicted the prophet as a pig – the highest imaginable insult in Islam.

    ...Western papers and blogs that published the twelve cartoons were right to do so. If they had not published, no-one would have been able to ascertain that the pigsnout was not among them. If they had not published, the cheating, blasphemous imams would have got away with their lies. The public is served by information, never harmed by it. Let this be a lesson to the cowards of The Guardian, SBS, the BBC and the British and American mainstream media, who “out of respect” for Islam would have allowed blasphemous imams to get away with their gross insult of the prophet, with slander and libel, and with the violent acts which they instigated.


    Belien also holds the BBC accountable for its negligence on the matter here.

    ***

    Bogus cartoon background:

    Origins of a fake Muhammad cartoon
    The lies of the Danish imams
    Lorenzo Vidino/Counterterrorism Blog
    Paul Belien
    Neander News
    Gateway Pundit (and note especiallly transcript of Fox News Channel's Jonathan hunt's interview with Abu Laban here)
    Instapundit
    American Thinker
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    (Original post by yawn)
    Both the presidents of France and US have condemned the overt provocation to Islam caused by the printing of offensive cartoons.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4693628.stm

    What say you now?
    Seems a bit gay.
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    I thought you Christians were all for media control, Howard?
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    (Original post by Beekeeper)
    I thought you Christians were all for media control, Howard?
    Well you were wrong weren't you? What do gays think about this Beekeeper?
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    (Original post by yawn)
    Both the presidents of France and US have condemned the overt provocation to Islam caused by the printing of offensive cartoons.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4693628.stm

    What say you now?
    Who gives a toss what that French **** says, and as for Bush.........

    By the way, i bet you never paid any attention to what they said before but choose to now...how very odd.:confused:
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    (Original post by Howard)
    Well you were wrong weren't you?
    I see, perhaps the Vatican is just a bit out of touch then...?

    Christians aren't the biggest fans of press/media freedom though, they couldn't even accept Jerry Springer the Opera, I mean, it really is laughable.

    You should see Brokeback Mountain btw Howard, fantastic movie.
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    You know what....firstly I really don't appreciate being called "sunshine"....

    And since I have no time to waste in composing a long and detailed reply to such insulting and ridiculous arguments I will just let the Quran speak for itself....

    "What? Do they seek a religion other than Allah's, whereas unto Him surrenders whatever is in the Heaven and on earth, willingly or unwillingly and unto Him all must return?" [3:83]

    "We have not created the Heaven and the earth and all that is between them without meaning and purpose, as is the surmise of those bent on denying the truth." [38:37]

    "Your Lord is quick in retribution, but He is also oft forgiving, Most Merciful." [7:167]

    Just keep that in mind when you decide to answer any more of my posts...

    "In the name of Allah, the most Merciful, the most Kind.

    Say, O disbelievers!
    I do not worship what you worship;
    nor do you worship what I worship.
    I shall never worship what you worship.
    Neither you worship what I worship.
    You have your own religion and I have mine."
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    (Original post by Beekeeper)
    I see, perhaps the Vatican is just a bit out of touch then...?

    Christians aren't the biggest fans of press/media freedom though, they couldn't even accept Jerry Springer the Opera, I mean, it really is laughable.

    You should see Brokeback Mountain btw Howard, fantastic movie.
    Yes, of the two billion Christians there must have been a good couple hundred that were outraged by Jerry Springer the Opera. What a damning indicement this is on Christians! Christianity; the very faith that was so instrumental in creating free speech.

    Know anything about the great Protestant Reformers Beekeeper? I think you'll find it was them that took the Bible, translated it into the language people could understand, and encouraged people to read it for themselves and draw their own conclusions to escape Roman sacerdotalism. And the Reformation as you know was a precursor to the Enlightenment when people in Europe really started to think freely for themselves for the first time.

    Ever heard of the Founding Fathers? Those odd Americans that decided taht freedom of speech and religion should be entrenched in the new Constitution of that country? Do you have any idea how many were Christians? Or do you imagine they were all atheists?

    You are an absurd person. You get sillier every time I encounter you. Fancy moaning about a few wacko's opinions of Jerry Springer when an appeal to history reveals that the free speech you enjoy owes so much to Christianity.

    I think I'll give Bareback Mountain a miss thank you very much.
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    (Original post by Mr.Chavez)
    it doesn't have to be the only one. being the mastermind you are, you would realise that halving supply of oil would not just push up price to double, but would send it sky rocketing to far beyond that. simple market economics really. Then theres the protectionsim thing - something us europeans know o so well. So america will keep all its oil for itself, and force some countries to give it their oil (by force i mean tie in certain 'aid' and trade deals to oil supply). russia and china of course will safe guard their own. Africa is a mess as ever. Venezual under Chez Chavez will send their oil to the latin countries preferentially.
    so europe is left with euro oil (of which there is so little compared with demand) and a trickle of supply from the likes of russia and frica(afdrica is a mess, russia would use the opportunity to supply those less critical of its policies).

    import and export balance sheets - my dear man you really haven't thought this through.
    oil forms the basic unit for a vast array of products. its an essential component for just about every synthetic material. which are essential compnents in much of manufacturing.
    if saudia arabia buys 2 billion quids worth more from us than we buy from them, and their imports are all complex goods like cars, computers, pharmaceutics, and ours are all oil...which do you think loses out more from loss of that trade? what if i told you that that 2 billions worth of oil we bought from them was essential for the production of 400 billions worth of other export goods - most of which go to other countries.
    we lose the oil, we lose all those exports.

    [Note figures are plucked from thin air. the concept isn't]
    You really seem to have quite successfully proved women having their brain in their knees. Try using your brain cells (if it's still functioning perfectly well) next time you let your fingers type anything, since without having a serious thought BEFORE what you type, makes you look like a real whinger, I'm afraid :rolleyes:

    Course, Middle Eastern oil is needed in European, but then again Middle Eastern countries need European migrants equally cos IF they could do WITHOUT Westerns then I presume they wouldn't have to offers Westerns with fat salaries & lure them to their country & for Middle Eastern economy, Westerns are just as important as breathing. So even imagining Middle Eastern economy WITHOUT Westerns would be quite farcical

    If European Engineers weren't there, who the heck would be building Middle Eastern shopping malls ??? If Westerns aren't needed in Middle East, who the heck will provide your patient with doctors & nurses ??? If Middle Eastern economy could do WITHOUT Westerns, then who the heck would they have as air-stewardess ??? Surely, women behind the veil wouldn't be a pretty sight for travellers, I should imagine

    PS: NEITHER the feeling NOR the concept has been plucked out of thin air :cool:
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    In response to the original question, I fail to see why Mohammed should not be depicted. Surely it is not enough to say that it says so in the Koran. I would be grateful if someone would fill me in with the moral grounding here. I certainly know that I see inciting violence as lot less moral than putting Mohammed into a few cartoons. Then again, perhaps morality is only relative and as an atheist, I always feel bewildered by religious devotion.
 
 
 
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