Is EMA fair? Watch

flipshot
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#461
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#461
Plus I don't feel the adverts clearly point out that it is dependant on income its only if you read the small print at the bottom that you would know.
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Lynnie
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#462
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#462
Well, all i can say is if i was elligble for it i wouldnt turn it down and if u can get it great for you! But dont assume all those who dont get it are loaded and their mummy's and daddy's bail them out all the time! And to all those who bunk lessons and right notes saying they were at the doctors so they still get it ... well that just takes the ****
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ZanyZanny
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#463
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#463
EMA is rubbish i do not get it as my parents earn above the mark but for some the reason the government assumes that as my parents earn more that they will give it me well that is a load of ******** i have just had to pay for my resit and i pay for my revision books and i paid for my graphic calculator and everyting i need for school out of what i earn from a part time job so EMA is**** and completely unfair
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Konstantine
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#464
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Oh joy. Numbered bullet points.

(Original post by JBacon)

1. "Food prices increase every day", i dont seem to see the inflation of bread at 2.5% maximum being much of a problem seeing as it is so cheap.
Ah yes, damn us peasants. Why stretch to a meal when we can CLEARLY live off 19p Tescos bread for a week? Let them eat cake indeed.

2."It costs more fro schools to insure children on any types of field trips", How many trips have you gone on that were compulsory in the last few years. Personally i have had none, i realise that there might be a few but these arent excessive. No one has to travel to Hawaii to study geography or New York to study sociology.
You even USED the word "personally" here. My god. Be aware of your own lexical decisions. Biology trips at my school are compuslory for the coursework unit. I believe the cost was around £120 for the week, which is exclusive of food costs. This trip went to Devon. Some courses are, by nature, more expensive. Please don't presume to tell people what course they should go for based on their income.

3."Books aren't exactly cheap", Its called a LIBARY, its FREE.
Actually, it's a LIBRARY. And even so, tell me what library stocks 20 copies of Philosophy & Ethics textbooks at around £30 a go? Seriously. Name one. And see if you can find that library so filled with books come exam season.

4. "some people don't have the time to get jobs" - Are you joking? Are you telling me there are students that have no time at all to work. Its called a Weekend. And if your busy for those 48 hours try the 20 hours between 5 and 9 during the weekdays.
So...those who are better off shouldn't have to sacrifice their weekends, only those who should be living off the aforementioned bread? You'd have us nose-to-the-grindstone all week, AND working at the weekends, solely so we didn't waste any money? I'm sorry, I forgot my family's income dictates my entire life. Forgive me.

5."My 2 A's and a B didn't just appear by magic" - Well the money does, i guess Dups can be forgiven for believing the grades did too.
...yes. Magic is the answer.


I've already discussed my position on this issue. Anyone interested is more than welcome to flick through my posts, rather than looking through the thread.
EMA may be abused, but to sacrifice the benefits it's given for the instances where it IS abused is idiotic.
Avada Kedavra.
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JBacon
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#465
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#465
Lets start from the beginning...

What costs does a student face by continuing their education.

1. Travel
2. Food(Lunch)
3. Stationary
4. Books
5. Trips and Fieldwork

Any others...
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JBacon
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#466
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#466
But where do you draw the line on choice for lunch. If you take for example the drink, buy a bottle and fill it up with tap water for a week. This costs 50p for 5 days for example. The meal itself can be made at home and brought to school/college much cheaper, dont overlook this option where at most it would cost £1. Therefore the cost of lunch isnt that great if you choose not to pay extortionate prices that monopolistic canteens charge.
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subterfuge
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#467
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(Original post by Konstantine)

EDIT: I'd also like to point out that I agree very strongly. "Monopolistic" is the only way to describe school canteens. It's disgusting what they get away with charging, and for the younger years who don't have the option of nipping into town to get something, the cost of lunch is non-negotiable. I very much dislike my school's canteen, in case you hadn't clicked :p:
urgh... yes, mine's pretty terribly overpriced... especially the healthier stuff.
we've been banned from bringing food in from outside, unless it's a packed lunch. So if we want to eat any takeaway stuff then we'd have to eat it outside school...
unfortunately, soho road, with its repeated muggings and last year having had an escaped gun-man on the loose there, it not the ideal place to hang around eating lunch

grr...
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Revd. Mike
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#468
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Our school canteen is improving, if slowly. What annoys me is that with the government's healthy eating policies in place, they've taken away the vending machines in our common room, so we can't eat junk food. However, you look in the canteen and you see kinds buying three burgers, chicken nuggets, donuts and chocolate cake for lunch. (Yes, that's actually what some kid had on his tray earlier as I was buying my "Healthy Living" Sandwhich and banana).

Back on topic, I do think in some respects EMA is unfair, but it does help me out greatly. I get £20, and mostly that get's spent on lunch, travel and textbooks, which my mum is usually unable to provide for.


(I won't deny spending the odd bit on frivolous things like CDs etc, hehe)
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Laika
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#469
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#469
The cost of food at our canteen was also a crime against humanity.
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Hanzing
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#470
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(Original post by Laika)
The cost of food at our canteen was also a crime against humanity.
Ditto. Had to sell your soul for a sandwich in ours..
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JBacon
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#471
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Ok so books, are you telling me you dont get copies of important texts when you start the course. At my college we get a book for exam in maths that covers all the modules we need, so too for economics and to my knowledge every single subject. There is therefore no need to buy a book unless it is for example a revision book. Personally i find once you get to AS/A2 revision books are counter productive as its more about application than knowledge and they simply only tackle the L1 and L2 marks rather than the much harder L3 and L4.

Whats the level of provision in your college/school? Do students really need to buy books even if the libary doesnt have 30 copies of so and so.
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kellywood_5
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#472
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(Original post by Revd. Mike)
Our school canteen is improving, if slowly. What annoys me is that with the government's healthy eating policies in place, they've taken away the vending machines in our common room, so we can't eat junk food. However, you look in the canteen and you see kinds buying three burgers, chicken nuggets, donuts and chocolate cake for lunch. (Yes, that's actually what some kid had on his tray earlier as I was buying my "Healthy Living" Sandwhich and banana).
Completely agree with that. We used to have a vending machine in our common room that sold chocolate bars and crisps, but now we're npt allowed one because of the government's healthy eating obsession, yet the cafeteria has continued to seel burgers, sausages, hot dogs, bacon rolls, pizza, chips, cookies, donuts and cakes! At least the vending machine was in a room only the sixth form had access to, and I think at 16+ we're old enough to make our own decisions about what we eat.
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Laika
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#473
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(Original post by JBacon)
Ok so books, are you telling me you dont get copies of important texts when you start the course. At my college we get a book for exam in maths that covers all the modules we need, so too for economics and to my knowledge every single subject. There is therefore no need to buy a book unless it is for example a revision book. Personally i find once you get to AS/A2 revision books are counter productive as its more about application than knowledge and they simply only tackle the L1 and L2 marks rather than the much harder L3 and L4.

Whats the level of provision in your college/school? Do students really need to buy books even if the libary doesnt have 30 copies of so and so.
This specific analysing of minor cost details is pointless, but since you asked:

Yes at my college we had to pay for our own books. And your personal opinion about A Level application of knowledge is not really important. As an English student we had exams where you needed to take the book into the exam room, including a few novels over the two years and a poetry collection, the same with other subjects as well. We had to pay for all of these books.

So to answer your question, yes books are a cost to A Level students.
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JBacon
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#474
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But if some colleges under the same funding have varying provision of course texts shouldn't this be a factor for the government to address. For instance in certainplaces EMA is used to provide books, in others it isnt. Hence government preassure should be placed on schools and colleges to provide course texts in the money that is provided to them for teaching students or if they arent prepared to go that far how about college provision for low income groups of textbooks

And in response to...

This specific analysing of minor cost details is pointless
If you truely wish to over come narrow minded arguments placed on this thread maybe it is best if we tackle the argument in small segments in order t come to a reasoned conclusion.
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Revd. Mike
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#475
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(Original post by JBacon)
Ok so books, are you telling me you dont get copies of important texts when you start the course. At my college we get a book for exam in maths that covers all the modules we need, so too for economics and to my knowledge every single subject. There is therefore no need to buy a book unless it is for example a revision book. Personally i find once you get to AS/A2 revision books are counter productive as its more about application than knowledge and they simply only tackle the L1 and L2 marks rather than the much harder L3 and L4.

Whats the level of provision in your college/school? Do students really need to buy books even if the libary doesnt have 30 copies of so and so.
Unfortunately, we don't get our books provided for us, mainly because the texts aren't exactly cheap, and they have a habit of changing from year to year in accordance with the syllabus or teacher preference. Our school library does have a few copies of the texts, but it's extremely impracticle to get it out for every lesson. Also, with psychology being a new department, the library hasn't had a chance to stock up on many books yet.

I think books are a necessity in AS/A levels, all my teachers have stressed the importance of reading around the subject, and I find I understand things much better by using at least two sources of information rather than just the one. My physics texts for example, are pretty inadequate when it comes to explaining stuff, but is great on questions and exam practice. My seperate revision guide, is exactly the opposite; a nice pairing I feel.

Completely agree with that. We used to have a vending machine in our common room that sold chocolate bars and crisps, but now we're npt allowed one because of the government's healthy eating obsession, yet the cafeteria has continued to seel burgers, sausages, hot dogs, bacon rolls, pizza, chips, cookies, donuts and cakes! At least the vending machine was in a room only the sixth form had access to, and I think at 16+ we're old enough to make our own decisions about what we eat.
Ditto. We tried to get round the rule by claiming to be a seperate 6th Form College attatched to the school, but apparently they didn't buy it. :p:
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athletesfoot
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#476
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if you don't get A's or B's you shouldn't get EMA IMO. a lot of people come to college just for EMA and wreck up the educating of others because they don't really care:mad: :mad:
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Hanzing
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#477
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Oh so people who try there hardest and only get C's shouldn't get EMA because there just not intelligent enough, they just don't care enough, Hell even They spent hours on their coursework, revising for exams and just didn't get any higher, Yeah your right there just dragging everyone else down.. That's ridiculous! I know a lot of my friends worked hard at there A-level subjects to get onto there degrees and they didn't get straight A' and B's but it didn't mean they didn't work, It didn't even mean they dont care. Where exactly is the evidence for 'caring' and results? Love to see that correlation.
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Belle_and_Sebastian
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#478
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#478
"Omg Ema is so stupid, I dont get it!"

This is the typical, single-minded response of the opposition to EMA.
It's a method of redistribution of income which increases equity, whether you think that's fair or not.

It's also beneficial for the economy overall. It means more people can receive education and therefore be of more value to the economy in terms of productivity and human capital. They are more useful, get better jobs, earn more money and can then consume more, the profits of which going to the companies selling to them (quite possible being the parents of these people complaining about not getting EMA!).
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no1topman
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#479
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it helps me....heres the breakdown
...train fare 5.60 return....daily....or 25.90 weekly (i know...stupidly high price)
...food £5 a day,...i go to college in the town centre damn it for being expensive..
so weekly its around 50 a week,which is ALOT in my view...but there we go,ema pays 30 other 20 from parents

regards
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JBacon
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(Original post by Belle_and_Sebastian)
"Omg Ema is so stupid, I dont get it!"

This is the typical, single-minded response of the opposition to EMA.
It's a method of redistribution of income which increases equity, whether you think that's fair or not.

It's also beneficial for the economy overall. It means more people can receive education and therefore be of more value to the economy in terms of productivity and human capital. They are more useful, get better jobs, earn more money and can then consume more, the profits of which going to the companies selling to them (quite possible being the parents of these people complaining about not getting EMA!).
The first thing you will ever learn in economics is...

OPPORTUNITY COST

What are the benefits of the most valuable foregone alternative.

And also there are narrow minded arguments on both sides. Those that believe because they use it wisely and have benefited that is fine in its current form. In order to get away from this lets take it cost by cost incurred and see if EMA is truly the most effective and cheapest method to use to obtain the desired effect.
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