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    (Original post by amby3000)
    Today we had a spokesperson come in to talk to us about EMA, and to be honest; I was absolutely shocked at the government for allowing such an idea.

    To begin with the government are giving money to students who carry on in further education as an incentive, the catch is your family has to be earning under £30,810 per year. This money is to be put straight into the students bank account and they can then use it however they choose.
    Now call me a pessimist but I would think that over 70% of this money is going to be put towards alcohol and cigarettes. It is encouraging a life of alcoholism to people, as long as they stay in school for at least 12 hours a week... so basically, you go to school for three days and are then able to have £30 in your pocket to buy anything you wish. And bonuses for good attendance and coursework.

    In my opinion this is incredibly unfair to students who do not qualify for EMA.
    It is very unusual for a middle class, hard working family to be able to afford to give their children the same amount of money as the government are giving to the slightly less earning families. This means that the middle class students who continue with their education are not being given equal rights to the qualifying EMA students.

    EMA asks students, ‘do you want to continue in learning after 16 but are worried about money?’. Well for one, that is one of the features of a modern apprenticeship or a vocational course. Or if you didn’t want to do one of these, and wanted to study academically in further education; it is not unheard of for students to get a Saturday job.
    I for example, work hard every week as a waitress for 7 hours a day, and I get around £30, I also plan to go to college. EMA benefiting students are able to earn the same amount by doing half the amount of work I do. Where is the equality in that?

    Also, The government says that the money given to the students is to go towards schoolbooks and equipment. It is rather naïve to expect that pupils ages 16+ will spend their money in such a responsible way. I have friends who benefit from EMA and they do not spend their money on ‘schoolbooks and equipment’. Rather the opposite, they spend it on drinking, cigarettes and weekly shopping sprees. If the government want to ensure that students can afford school equipment than why not give free schoolbooks and equipment to students from low earning families?
    If EMA is to help poorer students go to university, than why can’t the government get rid of university fees? I would like to point out that it is not only the students who qualify for EMA that cannot afford to go to university. The majority of students going to university are going to leave with a huge debt on their backs. Well… thanks to EMA, pupils from a poorer family will not have to deal with this. Lucky them. The middle Class however, do not get this advantage and will have to work twice as hard to be able to pay for university.
    The government say that EMA will encourage students from poorer families to stay in school, assuming that students from a slightly better earning family will need no encouragement at all. If EMA is to be given to students as an incentive to stay in education, than it should be given to all students who stay in education.

    EMA means that even if your parents have separated and both contribute money towards your education, it is only the person that you live with who applies. So if say, a lawyer, who earns well over the qualifying amount, separates from his wife who only earns a small amount, under the qualifying EMA limit; their child will still be entitled to a possible £30 per week on condition that they live with the lower earner, no matter how much the higher earner contributes towards their child.
    A very well though out post, You make a lot of valid points that we have discussed. There are always going to be people that spend their EMA differently to what its intended to, But surely if they stop EMA on the premise that students are just going to piss it away with drink and cigs then its insulting to those who actually use it for what its intended? NO system is perfect and there always going to be deviations to the ideal.

    I object that if you cant afford college you should have to go into apprenticeships and vocational courses. Also many people who receive Ema also have part time jobs, I worked Weekends at my job since i was 16 and this wasn't enough. Being from a rural area My bus choices were restricted and expensive and we had no free travel.

    I think you will find that saving your Ema doesn't make that much of a Difference to University debt, if you can even afford to save it. I only accumulated about £500 in savings and My loans will make me leaving debt a lot poorer than many. Hardly any students can leave with clear debts. Also it would be hard to abolish Tuition fees, These are the Universities way of income and how they provide the new facilities and services on their campuses. This i assume is also on top of government funding making it harder for the government to give them anymore.

    The separated parent angle has been shown to be quite unfair but in the same bracket it is useful, In the first year of EMA a lot of my friends came from single parent households with little to no help from the other parent, EMA tried to accommodate for this.
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    (Original post by JBacon)
    Perhaps instead of saying how wonderful EMA is for those students that not only have to support themselves but also have to contribute o their household income you should look at why students are having to make such contributions. What drastically changes at 17/18 that means parents force there children into part-time work and demand money from them. Address this issue rather than throwing money at it.
    What 'drastically happens' after 16 is that schooling is no longer compulsory and some parents take this as an opportunity to get their kids out to work to help with the family budget.

    By having an extra £30 a week to use, plus the added incentive of keeping the Child Benefit for another 2/3 years is enough to persuade both kids and parents that staying on is a good idea, particularly as FE/HE helps that kid to become more socially mobile because of the kudos of certificated examinations and its ramifications on making one ultimately more employable.
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    Fairness and unfairness aside how many students do we know who would attend (regardless if they learn anything or not) if they did not get their ema?
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    I feel I'll get slatered for this but I work 25 hours a week at £5 an hour on average, giving me around £125 quid a week. Which I spend on anything generally the only things I pay for is: £30 -Laptop Payments ( To my Uncle cos he bought it on his credit card and Im paying him back weekly for a year), about £15 quid travel and about £10 on internet and phone.

    Meaning each week £55 costs going out each week, leaving me about £70 each week without EMA which usually gets spent, on god knows what but I spend it!

    Then I also get £30 EMA, which all this year has also been spent on rubbish.

    So honestly I see why people dislike the EMA so much, but I guess the offer was there for me to get £30 a week so I claimed it.

    I've changed my plans for next year regarding the EMA though, set up a new bank account last week when received next year’s application for. Which was a savings account which I can’t withdraw from for 12 months? I'm also going to put £30 of my wages in there by bank transfers each week. Meaning that hopefully by the end of the year I should have over £3000 which I can use to either fund a gap year, or save further to put towards Uni costs. Unsure about that bit yet

    But yeah, I really do feel the EMA has benefited my educationally in no way what so ever other than making me have a split second thought some mornings when I'm deciding whether or not to go in that day.

    I also notice a lot of the people at my college aren’t on the EMA because of their backgrounds etc, so they often slate the EMA without actually considering it from both angles. Whereas I know a lot of people who have gone to college this year because of the EMA, whether or not they spend the EMA on education or not, shouldn’t be that important personally. Surely the fact that their still staying on in education is a good thing? Overall meaning that people our age in 10 years will all make up a better educated workforce, which can only have mainly good aspects to how we live, surely?
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    (Original post by Dannyc)
    I feel I'll get slatered for this but I work 25 hours a week at £6 an hour on average, giving me around £125 quid a week. Which I spend on anything generally the only things I pay for is: £30 -Laptop Payments ( To my Uncle cos he bought it on his credit card and Im paying him back weekly for a year), about £15 quid travel and about £10 on internet and phone.

    Meaning each week £55 costs going out each week, leaving me about £70 each week without EMA which usually gets spent, on god knows what but I spend it!

    Then I also get £30 EMA, which all this year has also been spent on rubbish.

    So honestly I see why people dislike the EMA so much, but I guess the offer was there for me to get £30 a week so I claimed it.

    I've changed my plans for next year regarding the EMA though, set up a new bank account last week when received next year’s application for. Which was a savings account which I can’t withdraw from for 12 months? I'm also going to put £30 of my wages in there by bank transfers each week. Meaning that hopefully by the end of the year I should have over £3000 which I can use to either fund a gap year, or save further to put towards Uni costs. Unsure about that bit yet

    But yeah, I really do feel the EMA has benefited my educationally in no way what so ever other than making me have a split second thought some mornings when I'm deciding whether or not to go in that day.

    I also notice a lot of the people at my college aren’t on the EMA because of their backgrounds etc, so they often slate the EMA without actually considering it from both angles. Whereas I know a lot of people who have gone to college this year because of the EMA, whether or not they spend the EMA on education or not, shouldn’t be that important personally. Surely the fact that their still staying on in education is a good thing? Overall meaning that people our age in 10 years will all make up a better educated workforce, which can only have mainly good aspects to how we live, surely?
    Why do you fear being slated?

    1. You own a inexpensive budget laptop costing £1560. Or you can't manage your money and are paying double as a result of interest.

    2. You use £15 a week on true educational items. Congratulations.

    3. As a result of your further education your maths skills are superb. 25 x 6 = 125. Are you sure you don't earn £5 an hour?

    4. You obviously couldn't support yourself if EMA wasn't there. That £55 a week on entertaining is a necessity.

    5. It must be a real struggle working out whether to go to college or not. (Hint Mon, Tue, Wed, Thur, Fri you go to college, Sat and Sun you don't.) I guess those that don't remember what day it is need EMA.

    6. How dare anyone suggest that the government shouldn't pay you to get those qualifications they keep going on about. It is obvious that you will never benefit from those qualification in terms of a better job and increased income. In fact you might just end up with a worse paying job as a result.
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    (Original post by JBacon)
    3. As a result of your further education your maths skills are superb. 25 x 6 = 125. Are you sure you don't earn £5 an hour?
    It was a typo. Meant £5
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    (Original post by JBacon)
    Why do you fear being slated?

    1. You own a inexpensive budget laptop costing £1560. Or you can't manage your money and are paying double as a result of interest.

    2. You use £15 a week on true educational items. Congratulations.

    3. As a result of your further education your maths skills are superb. 25 x 6 = 125. Are you sure you don't earn £5 an hour?

    4. You obviously couldn't support yourself if EMA wasn't there. That £55 a week on entertaining is a necessity.

    5. It must be a real struggle working out whether to go to college or not. (Hint Mon, Tue, Wed, Thur, Fri you go to college, Sat and Sun you don't.) I guess those that don't remember what day it is need EMA.

    6. How dare anyone suggest that the government shouldn't pay you to get those qualifications they keep going on about. It is obvious that you will never benefit from those qualification in terms of a better job and increased income. In fact you might just end up with a worse paying job as a result.
    Cant reply.. Sarcasm Overload...
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    I do find it insulting that people can be so bitter over 30 quid a week (maximum)

    do people really believe that if you get under £20,817 per year, you don't deserve a bit of extra cash?, i understand there are many other ways of getting around this, but my parents split up years ago, we've always had to struggle for evrerything, and now EMA has come up it really helps, because my part time job doesn't cover everything. I pay ALL of my EMA directly to my mother, who in turn spends it on bills and food etc, and we're on under £12,000 a year. Now tell me that i don't deserve EMA?
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    (Original post by Rosie_Fairy)
    I do find it insulting that people can be so bitter over 30 quid a week (maximum)

    do people really believe that if you get under £20,817 per year, you don't deserve a bit of extra cash?, i understand there are many other ways of getting around this, but my parents split up years ago, we've always had to struggle for evrerything, and now EMA has come up it really helps, because my part time job doesn't cover everything. I pay ALL of my EMA directly to my mother, who in turn spends it on bills and food etc, and we're on under £12,000 a year. Now tell me that i don't deserve EMA?

    Unfortunately people do get bitter - I had it all the time at college because I recieved it. I whole hearetely agree many people do deserve it when there in such income brackets - EMA gave me a bit of comfort I never got before. But its the traditional case of envy - If someones getting something you dont - Its just not fair (The Irony of it all.)
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    Pff, ok, a 26-page topic and needless to say I haven't read it all, and my unnecessarily long post will probably get lost in the tidal wave of new posts that seems to be coming in, but here's my thoughts: EMA is a fair system. I get £30 a week, so I'm bound to say that, right?

    Firstly, I go to a private, independent school. The fees are coming up to (or have surpassed, I dunno) £8000 per year, and the school has (bizarrely) 666 pupils. My wonderful further maths-charged brain tells me that's somewhere exceeding £5 million a year the school gets in. I'm not an expert on finance but... we pay for our own school trips (which we are occasionally forced to go on so that we can do 'projects' on them later on in the term), we (obviously) buy our own uniform (which costs £100 or so per person anyway, from the 'school shop' ), we put so much money into the table football / pool tables and tuck shop that the school so generously provide.

    People coming from poorer 'state' schools might read this and start gesticulating at the screen at how good my school actually is, and I don't disagree. We have excellent facilities and teachers who genuinely do spend all the time they have helping us. I've had teachers who've offered to use part their holidays (and mine) helping me with chemistry work, or who give us past papers whenever the hell we feel like and they will happily mark them for us, wasting a lot of their evening. And (according to them) they don't get paid significantly more than most teachers from any schools.

    What's my point? My point is, where the hell does that £5 million go to? Textbooks? The occasional notice board we have installed? It's certainly not us. It's not the teachers. I doubt my headmaster is breaking into the school accounts and taking an extra 10 holidays a term. It probably goes on some arbitrary taxes and expenses the school has to pay for being independent. Does EMA help me to pay my school fees? No. We earn £7000 a year. It's not possible for us to pay the school fees... I'm on a scholarship.

    Bet that confused you. So where am I going with this? £7000 a year and we don't have to pay school fees? Well, of course there is that £100 or so we have to spend on uniform, and the £500 or so a year we spend on mandatory school trips. Public transport doesn't come cheaply to get to school and naturally I don't qualify for public transport help because I don't live three miles away from my school, but who can walk any distance (in my case about a mile) at 7:30am with two heavy school bags? Then we have our share of arbitrary taxes and so on too. Our school has millions a year coming in to throw away on these taxes and can't afford to pay its staff more than the usual salary. After all these pointless expenses on my school, which I would end up spending on any school, where do we find the money to buy food, clothes, Christmas presents for relatives, the occasional trip out somewhere for a day to keep us sane?

    Good old EMA.


    (Edit: having re-read one or two posts I'd like to point out that I'm quite insulted to be automatically labelled as someone who will probably spend all his EMA money on alcohol and cigarettes. I've never smoked in my life and barely touched alcohol in my life, and the 3 pints or so of alcohol I have had was bought for me. There are people around who don't take handouts for granted. I'm doing 6 AS level exams this year and am looking forward to six good passes, at least four of which I'm fairly certain will be A grade, and being labelled as someone who is frittering his life away just because he's getting EMA I find nothing short of offensive. Those with richer parents than my own, I should point out that while they may not hand you £30 on a plate every week, you probably won't have to pay your way through university if you end up going there. Some of us are responsible enough with money for it really not to matter whose bank account it goes into.)
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    (Original post by generalebriety)
    Pff, ok, a 26-page topic and needless to say I haven't read it all, and my unnecessarily long post will probably get lost in the tidal wave of new posts that seems to be coming in, but here's my thoughts: EMA is a fair system. I get £30 a week, so I'm bound to say that, right?

    Firstly, I go to a private, independent school. The fees are coming up to (or have surpassed, I dunno) £8000 per year, and the school has (bizarrely) 666 pupils. My wonderful further maths-charged brain tells me that's somewhere exceeding £5 million a year the school gets in. I'm not an expert on finance but... we pay for our own school trips (which we are occasionally forced to go on so that we can do 'projects' on them later on in the term), we (obviously) buy our own uniform (which costs £100 or so per person anyway, from the 'school shop' ), we put so much money into the table football / pool tables and tuck shop that the school so generously provide.

    People coming from poorer 'state' schools might read this and start gesticulating at the screen at how good my school actually is, and I don't disagree. We have excellent facilities and teachers who genuinely do spend all the time they have helping us. I've had teachers who've offered to use part their holidays (and mine) helping me with chemistry work, or who give us past papers whenever the hell we feel like and they will happily mark them for us, wasting a lot of their evening. And (according to them) they don't get paid significantly more than most teachers from any schools.

    What's my point? My point is, where the hell does that £5 million go to? Textbooks? The occasional notice board we have installed? It's certainly not us. It's not the teachers. I doubt my headmaster is breaking into the school accounts and taking an extra 10 holidays a term. It probably goes on some arbitrary taxes and expenses the school has to pay for being independent. Does EMA help me to pay my school fees? No. We earn £7000 a year. It's not possible for us to pay the school fees... I'm on a scholarship.

    Bet that confused you. So where am I going with this? £7000 a year and we don't have to pay school fees? Well, of course there is that £100 or so we have to spend on uniform, and the £500 or so a year we spend on mandatory school trips. Public transport doesn't come cheaply to get to school and naturally I don't qualify for public transport help because I don't live three miles away from my school, but who can walk any distance (in my case about a mile) at 7:30am with two heavy school bags? Then we have our share of arbitrary taxes and so on too. Our school has millions a year coming in to throw away on these taxes and can't afford to pay its staff more than the usual salary. After all these pointless expenses on my school, which I would end up spending on any school, where do we find the money to buy food, clothes, Christmas presents for relatives, the occasional trip out somewhere for a day to keep us sane?

    Good old EMA.


    (Edit: having re-read one or two posts I'd like to point out that I'm quite insulted to be automatically labelled as someone who will probably spend all his EMA money on alcohol and cigarettes. I've never smoked in my life and barely touched alcohol in my life, and the 3 pints or so of alcohol I have had was bought for me. There are people around who don't take handouts for granted. I'm doing 6 AS level exams this year and am looking forward to six good passes, at least four of which I'm fairly certain will be A grade, and being labelled as someone who is frittering his life away just because he's getting EMA I find nothing short of offensive. Those with richer parents than my own, I should point out that while they may not hand you £30 on a plate every week, you probably won't have to pay your way through university if you end up going there. Some of us are responsible enough with money for it really not to matter whose bank account it goes into.)
    I do admit that in 0.007% of cases such as yours are fair as you are obviously a hard working student who doesn't waste your money on crap but from my experience and the majority of posts on this thread EMA is unfair, hence the stereotyping.
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    Well, that's probably true... but it's all a case of priorities really. Those who want money in sixth form so they can go out and piss about with their friends should get a job. Those who want to do well in their studies should go to school. The money is intended as financial support for those who need it, and I think people with very little money coming in do need it, even if they spend it on crap (because it'll stop them taking it off their parents to spend on crap, in extreme cases - spent on crap or not, there's still more money floating around). From my experience of seeing other people, it's not possible to do really well at school and have an amazing social life. Sacrifices must be made - I'm not some sort of recluse but I don't go out taking drugs every night like a lot of people I know do. If that makes them happy then great, they're free to do it. I'd rather finish my studies then have fun.

    EMA really helps me. But for people who just use it to have a good time, good for them. Sixth form isn't meant to be all doom and gloom, it's meant to be enlightening and fun and so on. The more money the students have, the more the parents can put away for university or general expenses. Also it teaches a certain independence you can't get with £3 pocket money a week.
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    (Original post by generalebriety)
    EMA really helps me. But for people who just use it to have a good time, good for them. Sixth form isn't meant to be all doom and gloom, it's meant to be enlightening and fun and so on. The more money the students have, the more the parents can put away for university or general expenses. Also it teaches a certain independence you can't get with £3 pocket money a week.
    Yes it does help some people but i don't think the governments' aim is to make sixth form fun for students.

    It may give students more of an independence as they can decide what to spend the money on - which should be college related but it seems those who do spend it on crap such as drugs/cigarettes/alcohol don't deserve that sort of independence as it's obvious that they aren't mature enough to spend it accordingly.
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    (Original post by Nel48)
    I do admit that in 0.007% of cases such as yours are fair as you are obviously a hard working student who doesn't waste your money on crap but from my experience and the majority of posts on this thread EMA is unfair, hence the stereotyping.

    Where is that statistic from?
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    "I bet I've got to spend it all on textbooks"

    Once the money is in your bank account, it's up to you how you spend it. Only you know what you need the money for that week - whether it's books, equipment, getting around, contributing towards family income or any other costs that add up when you're learning.
    http://www.dfes.gov.uk/financialhelp...&ContentID=116

    Who the hell in sixth form needs £30 worth of books a week anyway? I couldn't think of that much I'd buy in an ideal world. Stationery is £20 a year, at the beginning of term, and that lasts me right through the year. Books, pff... revision guides and so on, school provides the rest as long as we give them back at the end of the year.

    "Any other costs that add up when you're learning". Note: not "any other costs that add up as a result of learning". Occasionally I treat myself to whatever I see in the shops that I ABSOLUTELY MUST HAVE NOW, which is normally music when I'm stressed, which I'd say helped my study and counted as "when I'm learning".
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    (Original post by generalebriety)
    http://www.dfes.gov.uk/financialhelp...&ContentID=116

    Who the hell in sixth form needs £30 worth of books a week anyway? I couldn't think of that much I'd buy in an ideal world. Stationery is £20 a year, at the beginning of term, and that lasts me right through the year. Books, pff... revision guides and so on, school provides the rest as long as we give them back at the end of the year.

    "Any other costs that add up when you're learning". Note: not "any other costs that add up as a result of learning". Occasionally I treat myself to whatever I see in the shops that I ABSOLUTELY MUST HAVE NOW, which is normally music when I'm stressed, which I'd say helped my study and counted as "when I'm learning".
    True, So very true. Anyho Wait till you get to Uni, Were talking £30+ per book.
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    My EMA helped pay for my university visits, and with most my universities being quite far trips did cost quite a bit. I'd say it was money well spent, I now know where I want to go and I didn't stay in expensive hotels, twice I stayed in awful holes of guesthouses. Yes, I don't need as much as £30 a week but I haven't spent any of it on frivolous things, anything left over has gone into my ISA and I'll be able to buy a new computer for uni (mine's ancient). I would get a job if I could but I share the responsibility of looking after my special needs brother with my mum and anyway, because I "talk posh" I obviously don't need a job, that's the reaction I've got from the job interviews I've been to.
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    (Original post by Hanzing)
    True, So very true. Anyho Wait till you get to Uni, Were talking £30+ per book.
    Lovely. Surely this means, as an equivalent to EMA, we should be getting like £1000+ per week?

    University trips are expensive. £60 or so to Cambridge and back from here (Chester, ish). Not staying anywhere though, just going stupidly early (3am) and coming back stupidly late (12am). Managed to arrange a lift back to my house. I go on Saturday actually... woohoo for no revision time two days before orals! Gah, still, 10 hours on the train and they'll be almost deserted around those times, I'll take a book or two, probably end up doing more revision than I would at home. Standard Saturdays I'm not awake ten hours in total. Maybe take my "Pure Mathematics 6" book since it's a maths open day. Look intellectual even though I won't need it.

    Interestingly, my last open day (and first) was to Oxford, which was £25. Wouldn't you think Cambridge would be easier to get to to maintain some sort of competition? I almost considered not going to see it because of the price it would cost to go there. I'll be spending a bloody fortune on interviews and might not even get in... on the other hand I don't particularly like Oxford. All seems a bit pompous. Plus people in the town just decide to stop walking at arbitrary moments, and they're always right in front of you when they do it. *shrugs*
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    Well i got £30 a week for going to school. I am from a single parent background and my mum is unable to work. I got great grades in 5th year so in 6th year i took it easy at school and preferred to help arounfd the house. Half way through the year...my financial situation forced me to leave school and get a job. £30 a week just dosen't cut it lol.

    I got a job, was into uni and everything was cool. Now £500 fine or whatever for not going to school!!! My god how am i expected to pay this. Think if i hadn't got the grades in 5th year i would have been forced out of school and would have had basically no academic future. Now i'm in debt before i even go to uni. This puts me off further educaion all together and i don't like the prospect of getting into even more debt and to be ****ed over again.

    I read the first page and heard people complaining that ohhh my parents earn over 30 grand a year. i should be entitld to it just as much as anybody else. Shut up you creeps. I don't mind because i am very determined. but i think the government should be doing more for people who are actually in need (IMO people like me). I can only imagine many people have been in my position and forced out of education through financial pressures. Maybe less people need to get support and the people who actually need it desperately should be supported more.
 
 
 

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