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    (Original post by supernova2)
    my mum works in a shop and she earns over 22k. The fact is either they cant be arsed changing jobs to earn more or theyre not clever enough to realise you can. Oh yeah and shes from tibet and has no english qualifications at all. I win.
    Good for your mum if she can earn over £22k working in a shop with no English qualifications, although it seems very unlikely, but some people are happy in their jobs and don't feel the need to switch to a higher paid one. Money isn't the be all and end all of life, and just because someone doesn't have a high paid job doesn't mean they can't be arsed or they're stupid. By the way, using correct punctuation and not resorting to childish comments like 'I win' may lend some sort of credibility to your argument, ridiculously ignorant though it is.
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    Is EMA fair? No, in a word. The system is completely flawed in the way money is given out.
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    Why don;t you all realise that how ever much you moan, you aint gonna get it.

    so stop complaining.

    the vast majority of people that recieve EMA appreciate it. there is always a minority that set a bad image for the rest but aint that in many other things?

    I am one of four and my dad earns 12k a year. so i don;t know why they are people complaining here sayin they are one of three and there parents earn just over 30k.

    just get over the fact you aint gonna get EMA. it sounds very good to get £30 a year but if you look into the lives of the VAST MAJORITY it aint all good.
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    (Original post by vv2006)
    just get over the fact you aint gonna get EMA. it sounds very good to get £30 a year but if you look into the lives of the VAST MAJORITY it aint all good.
    Sounds excellent!

    What about this then? A mate of mine gets the full £30, he has spent his last three weeks on 2 PS2 games and 2 DVD's, he is now 'saving' the money for a PSP. What's that all about? His mum is 'disabled' apparently and people, like your father and anyone else who works are paying for people like that. :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by kellywood_5)
    Good for your mum if she can earn over £22k working in a shop with no English qualifications, although it seems very unlikely, but some people are happy in their jobs and don't feel the need to switch to a higher paid one. Money isn't the be all and end all of life, and just because someone doesn't have a high paid job doesn't mean they can't be arsed or they're stupid. By the way, using correct punctuation and not resorting to childish comments like 'I win' may lend some sort of credibility to your argument, ridiculously ignorant though it is.
    Actually I was just disproving the fact that your blaming the lack of your mothers qualifications on her inability to get paid more. And I know money isnt the be all and end all but the point is if both your parents are working full time and still not getting 30k then either theyve had little career advancements, probably down to them, or theyre just doing jobs which should pay them more. Anyway whats wrong with me being childish, my dad worked really hard and got a scholorship at Oxford even though his parents were on really low wages and now the extra money hes earning is being given to some kids my age, most of them will probably spend it on going out or stupid random things. Ive got no qualms with people who actually need it like single parents with 3 kids or someone with disabled parents. But if youve got 2 fully fit parents who dont want to work in higher paid jobs because they dont feel the need to switch then theyre burdening the rest of us with higher taxes.

    Anyway if half your argument is based around discrediting mine for lack of puncuation or grammar I think a reasonable response would be "I win". Sorry.

    And my mums on 21k basic, even though she mangages a section thats only about the size of a couple bedrooms. But again thats down to her hardwork and perseverance.
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    My dad never went to school, as a brother of nearly 8 other siblings he was the oldest and was often left to look after the rest of his brothers and sisters. Not only that but school wasn't very nice for him, being bullied and not being accepted.

    My mother went to school, and despite having the ability to do well messed up in her exams for pissing around in class and just not doing as well as she should have done, together they earn just under 30k and just under the mark for me to be eligible for £10 a week.

    We have a happy family home, and never go without. You don't need qualifications to have a good life.
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    Yeah but the point is your parents are taking money away from other people who worked harder to get that extra money. My mum is oldest of 6 siblings and lived in a village station in the himalayan foothills where most girls never went to college or anything.

    and how did your dad not got to school and still got bullied at school?

    And your right you dont need to have qualificaitons to have a good life, the point im arguing is that the EMA system is flawed. I dont think that 2 parents who earn less than 30k and have 1 kid deserve EMA and 1 parent who earns 40k and has 5 kids probably needs it. And the fact that your taking it voluntarily is just removing it from another persons pocket.

    edit:
    (Original post by 1066)
    We have a happy family home, and never go without.
    thats my point, youre obviously someone who doesnt need EMA, but still gets it.
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    Btw im just playing devils advocate, in the grand scheme of things the amount of government spending on EMA is probably so small it really doesnt make much difference. It just could be a lot more efficient, like everything else.

    I could guarantee that the majority of people complaining about it would take it if they could.
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    (Original post by supernova2)
    thats my point, youre obviously someone who doesnt need EMA, but still gets it.
    Go without doesn't mean that I get whatever I want, or my parents give me money for no reason, nobody 'needs' EMA. If you can't afford something, you don't buy it.
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    Of course EMA isnt fair... but nothing in life is... so we just have to live with it and vote against the government that introduced it!
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    (Original post by supernova2)
    Actually I was just disproving the fact that your blaming the lack of your mothers qualifications on her inability to get paid more. And I know money isnt the be all and end all but the point is if both your parents are working full time and still not getting 30k then either theyve had little career advancements, probably down to them, or theyre just doing jobs which should pay them more. Anyway whats wrong with me being childish, my dad worked really hard and got a scholorship at Oxford even though his parents were on really low wages and now the extra money hes earning is being given to some kids my age, most of them will probably spend it on going out or stupid random things. Ive got no qualms with people who actually need it like single parents with 3 kids or someone with disabled parents. But if youve got 2 fully fit parents who dont want to work in higher paid jobs because they dont feel the need to switch then theyre burdening the rest of us with higher taxes.

    Anyway if half your argument is based around discrediting mine for lack of puncuation or grammar I think a reasonable response would be "I win". Sorry.

    And my mums on 21k basic, even though she mangages a section thats only about the size of a couple bedrooms. But again thats down to her hardwork and perseverance.
    Accounting is very different to shop work though, in that you do need qualifications to get to the top. Good for your dad as well then. Both of your parents have obviously worked very hard to get to where they are now and that's certainly admirable. All I'm saying is that you can't dismiss everyone who earns less than them as lazy or stupid without knowing all the facts. I agree with you that most people spend their EMA money on things it really shouldn't be spent on, and that's why I think students should be given vouchers instead, or at least made to provide receipts for what they've bought, and the bonus system should be scrapped. As for taxes, the rich pay more than the poor- they always have. Fair? Perhaps not, but that's life. Even if EMA didn't exist, I'm sure your parents would still be paying more taxes than mine to subsidise all the people on the various other benefits.

    It wasn't half of my argument at all, I only pointed out because it annoys me when people don't type properly and the 'I win' comment just made you sound like a 5 year old rather than a serious debater.
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    I don't think it's fair. You might say that's because I'm jealous because I don't get it, but I just don't.
    I know in some situations for some people it is and they deserve it, but half the people don't.
    One friend of mine spends his on CDs, another spent her bonus on music merchandise. I know there are people who need it and for those people obviously it is fair. But I also know a girl who gets £30 a week EMA because on paper she has no income as for some reason her guardians' income has not been taken into account when deciding eligability, but her guaradians pay for everything for her, they bought her a brand new car, they own their own business and she's more than happy to brag about her money, yet she still gets EMA.
    I'm not saying people don't deserve it, or that there shouldn't be a system in place for the people who need it, but the system at the moment is unfair, it needs to consider multiple children, I know someone with five brothers & sisters whose not eligable because of her parents' income. And they all still live at home. And it also needs to be made less open to abuse.
    People'll probably say I'm jealous, but I just don't agree with it, from what I've seen from other people abusing it.
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    (Original post by 1066)
    Go without doesn't mean that I get whatever I want, or my parents give me money for no reason, nobody 'needs' EMA. If you can't afford something, you don't buy it.
    EMA is designed for people who do go without though. For example youve got 2 yougner siblings, your mums working hard but cant get enough money. By freeing up expenses for you mother you can stay at college while she can concentrate on the yougner 2 rather than making you get a job to help.

    My parents dont give me money for no reason and I dont get whatever I want yet I dont get EMA. I just dont think that the children should really be receiveing it and if they do it should be in voucher form.
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    (Original post by kellywood_5)
    Accounting is very different to shop work though, in that you do need qualifications to get to the top. Good for your dad as well then. Both of your parents have obviously worked very hard to get to where they are now and that's certainly admirable. All I'm saying is that you can't dismiss everyone who earns less than them as lazy or stupid without knowing all the facts. I agree with you that most people spend their EMA money on things it really shouldn't be spent on, and that's why I think students should be given vouchers instead, or at least made to provide receipts for what they've bought, and the bonus system should be scrapped. As for taxes, the rich pay more than the poor- they always have. Fair? Perhaps not, but that's life. Even if EMA didn't exist, I'm sure your parents would still be paying more taxes than mine to subsidise all the people on the various other benefits.
    The point of EMA though is to provide for those who would otherwise have to get jobs to cover themselves. Obviously if your parents are in the situation where its fine if they earn less than 30k and they can support you and your siblings well then you dont need EMA. Ok it was harsh of me saying people are lazy if they dont, its just if they wanted to, they could easily earn a lot more than 30k without too much effort.

    And as for taxes I was trying to say how its better to spend the money on something needed rather than Billys weekly outings to the pub or Sams ever increasing CD collection. And taxes are fair, its like you paying for the right to have a more affluent life. The more affluent it is, the more you have to pay to have it.
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    (Original post by supernova2)
    The point of EMA though is to provide for those who would otherwise have to get jobs to cover themselves. Obviously if your parents are in the situation where its fine if they earn less than 30k and they can support you and your siblings well then you dont need EMA. Ok it was harsh of me saying people are lazy if they dont, its just if they wanted to, they could easily earn a lot more than 30k without too much effort.

    And as for taxes I was trying to say how its better to spend the money on something needed rather than Billys weekly outings to the pub or Sams ever increasing CD collection. And taxes are fair, its like you paying for the right to have a more affluent life. The more affluent it is, the more you have to pay to have it.
    I'll admit that I personally didn't need EMA, but I'm sure there are plenty of people out there who do. The system itself is a good idea, it's just that it needs to be implemented more strictly, ie the assessment criteria need to change so that only those who need it get it and the cash needs to change to vouchers to ensure it's only spent on educational items. You were the one who brought up the issue of higher taxes, so I assumed you thought they were unfair, but incidentally I agree with you that they're not.
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    (Original post by kellywood_5)
    What an ignorant load of rubbish :mad: I got £20 a week EMA throughout the 2 years of sixth form, my parents are married (so obviously live together) and admittedly, I'm not an only child, but I only have 1 older brother, and my parents are most definitely not lazy. Just because a couple don't earn £30k a year doesn't mean they're lazy, it just means their jobs don't pay that well compared to some others. My dad is a bricklayer and has to get up at around 6 am 6 days a week, usually working until about 5 pm. My mum has 2 part time jobs, one as a finance officer and one as a fitness instructor. That's not because she's too lazy to work full time, it's because a) she took time off to have me and my brother and it's difficult to get back into work after that and b) she doesn't have the qualifications to be a chartered accountant. Before you come back with another ignorant generalisation, that's not because she's stupid, it's because she was refused a place at a grammar school despite passing the 11+ because she lived in a council house. In those days, if you didn't go to a grammar school, it was very difficult to do A-levels and go to uni. My mum has done the first few levels of an accounting course, but then had to stop because she couldn't afford it anymore. Sorry for the long rant, but it really annoys me when people assume that those on low incomes are just lazy. They could probably earn more on the dole nowadays, but the fact that they keep working anyway proves to me that they're not lazy.
    Please, don't apologise. I haven't heard such a ridiculous comment as the one supernova2 made in a long time. Shame on him for such an ignorant remark. However, your opinion on how it isn't fair that those who earn more pay more tax is also just as ignorant and ridiculous. I imagine you mean in terms of the progressive tax system we find ourselves with as even if there wasn't a progressive tax system and just a standard flat rate of tax then those who earn more will still pay more in taxes than those who earn less.
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    I admitted the lazy comment was harsh. But im saying that EMA in its current form is just a wasteful benefit. Lots of people who need it dont get it, and lots of people who get it dont need it.

    But heres a question for you. If someone is happy with their 10k job a year because they can live off it easily even though a 30k job is available to them, is that alright? Surely the benefits this person receives is just making someone else who took a 40k job but puts in more effort everyday less well off and less happy. Everyone where possible should try be working at maximum capacity for maximum long term profit. Some slight trade off is acceptable but not to this degree. Thats how a capitalist society works (like the 1 in which we live in). By working for our own personal gain, everyone else also gains from it. Obiously there needs to be some incentives for us to work in this way which there is throug ha better society, more leisure etc.

    And dont call what I say ignorant and ridiculous if you dont even try to make a real counter argument. Im making arguments based on evidence which Im bringing up. Saying oh your an idiot without any kind of respone is just plain retarded.
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    I have to disagree and say that the idea "people with low paying jobs can easily get another one which pays significantly more" is flawed. Living in a capitalist society and basic supply and demand means that by definition jobs which pay well are going to be few and far between. I'm fairly certain 90% of people would take a job with a £20k pay rise, but the amount of reasons why they may not be able to are numerous (not too mention there probably arent that many available anyway). Im not really sure your examples are realistic enough to base an argument on.
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    It isnt hard though at this point in time for 2 able bodied adults to earn 30k between them if they really wanted to. Graduate avg starting salary is meant to be 18k or something and thats the first year on the job. Most of our parents have 15-20 years experience at least
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    (Original post by RanchmanNukes)
    Please, don't apologise. I haven't heard such a ridiculous comment as the one supernova2 made in a long time. Shame on him for such an ignorant remark. However, your opinion on how it isn't fair that those who earn more pay more tax is also just as ignorant and ridiculous. I imagine you mean in terms of the progressive tax system we find ourselves with as even if there wasn't a progressive tax system and just a standard flat rate of tax then those who earn more will still pay more in taxes than those who earn less.
    I'm assuming you're referring to me saying 'fair? perhaps not' in response to one of supernova2's posts? I only said that because he brought up the issue of EMA resulting in higher taxes for those who do earn over £30k, so I interpreted that as him thinking that richer people paying higher taxes isn't fair. Personally I agree with you, and presumably supernova2 in another of his posts, that the tax system is fair.
 
 
 

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