Ayrton Senna vs Michael Schumacher if Senna hadn't been killed

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Raving_Hippy
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#1
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To anyone who watched F1 back in the 1990s, or if you're simply a fan of the history of F1, let's discuss a hypothetical situation.

If Ayrton Senna hadn't been killed at Imola in 1994, who would've come out on top in their epic battle that season and beyond?

Personally, I think Ayrton would've won at Imola and gone on to win the 1994 championship. I mean, if Damon Hill would almost win the championship then Ayrton would surely have won, since Hill was a slower driver than Ayrton.

I think it would've been one hell of a close season between them. I also think Senna would've won the 1995, 1996 and 1997 championships, possibly before going to Ferrari to finish his career. Perhaps Schuey wouldn't be the legend he is now if Senna had lived.

What do you think?
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username310124
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There is no way Senna would have won the 94, 95, 96 and 97 championships. That's an incredibly romantic view of how good Senna was. He was good, but he was wasn't some form of god that could pull a win out of nowhere every race.

Saying that though, Senna probably would have won another title or two, but I still think Schumacher would have had roughly the same amount of titles as he does now anyway. (The lack of Senna's death could have had plenty of knock on effects, such as JV not getting a drive in 96/97, etc).
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Raving_Hippy
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(Original post by CB91)
There is no way Senna would have won the 94, 95, 96 and 97 championships.
Williams had the best car from 1995 to 1997, and for the second half of 1994 once they got the car sorted. So I reckon it'd have been a forgone conclusion that Senna would've won the championship in those years.

(Original post by CB91)
That's an incredibly romantic view of how good Senna was. He was good, but he was wasn't some form of god that could pull a win out of nowhere every race.
Senna WAS godlike as a driver. Witness his drive at Donnington 1993 in the wet or Interlagos 1993 where he beat much faster cars in an under-powered McLaren Ford, for example.
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username310124
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(Original post by Raving_Hippy)
Williams had the best car from 1995 to 1997, and for the second half of 1994 once they got the car sorted. So I reckon it'd have been a forgone conclusion that Senna would've won the championship in those years.



Senna WAS godlike as a driver. Witness his drive at Donnington 1993 in the wet or Interlagos 1993 where he beat much faster cars in an under-powered McLaren Ford, for example.
You should know that F1 doesn't work like that. Having the fastest car does not mean you'll win the championship. Plenty of teams have had the fastest car and not won the championship. And who's to say Senna would have stayed at Williams anyway? Who's to say that if Senna won in 94/95, that the other teams wouldn't have pushed themselves even further and caught up?

Button won in the wet at Canada '11 and Hungary '11 beating the much faster Red Bull, so he's a god like driver as well then? No, Senna was good, but not that good.
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Marc Fiorano
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Agree with CB91, he was good but not that good. That view of him has just come about after his death because naturally when great sportsmen die early people always say how they would have achieved x more titles/championships etc.

In fact at the time he was often under a lot of scrutiny (much like Hamilton is nowadays, not that I'm comparing the two, that'd be an insult to Senna) because his do-or-die attitude used to sometimes compromise his races and end up in crashes.

I think it's just a personal thing. Being the type of fan I am I know that if I had been watching F1 (and old enough to appreciate it) back then I would have been a Prost supporter over Senna. Interestingly enough only recently Sir Jackie Stewart named his top 5 greatest drivers of all time and Prost was on it whilst Senna wasn't.

Another point is about how people have a go at Schumacher for winning the championship by hitting Damon, but everybody seems to forget that both Prost and Senna won their titles doing exactly the same in Suzuka '89 and '90. But of course nobody's allowed to talk about that, those titles were deserved, but Schumi's weren't. People also forget that when Senna won his '88 title, Prost had actually secured more points that season.

I remember last year people spoke about Vettel's poor pole:win conversion rate (even though most of it was down to poor reliability) and yet everybody forgets Senna's ratio.

But regardless he is a triple world champion with 41 wins, on that ground alone there's no doubt he is one of the greats. But Schumacher for me is one of the greatest sportsman (not just F1 driver) of all time. There's a reason why both Tiger Woods and Roger Federer unanimously agreed that the leading sportsman in the world (out of them and others like Tendulkar etc.) is Schumacher.
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Currrrtisssss
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That's like asking would Micheal Schumacher have won 7 titles if he hadn't of had the Ferrari that was the fastest car on the grid for a good 3/4 years. :rolleyes:

BRB, just get my can of worms...
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RP-MRU.
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Senna was something else, however, 7 titles speaks for itself. No other driver has come close to 7 for a good reason.
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JOR2010
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Senna was extremely talented, but his 1994 season started poorly indeed. Whilst he clearly had the pace, it was clear that race pace wasn't great. Due to the safety changes after Imola, perhaps the season would have gone differently, but Schumacher's Benetton was the better overall car, legally, or not.
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spiral87
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Senna WAS that good, it's just that, as time went on, it became more about the car and the technology than the driver. While Williams was ahead of McLaren in terms of performance in 1991/2/3, Williams had really slipped in 1994 and Benetton was using technology they shouldn't have had.

I doubt Senna would have continued for much longer after 1994, I genuinely think he'd have called it a day at the end of that season, or sometime in 1995.
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f1mad
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(Original post by JOR2010)
Senna was extremely talented, but his 1994 season started poorly indeed. Whilst he clearly had the pace, it was clear that race pace wasn't great. Due to the safety changes after Imola, perhaps the season would have gone differently, but Schumacher's Benetton was the better overall car, legally, or not.
LOL.

Oh please.

Williams car was much quicker!
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f1mad
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This has been discussed to death: I urge you to check out Autosport forums.
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JOR2010
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(Original post by f1mad)
LOL.

Oh please.

Williams car was much quicker!
Oh please. Everyone knows Williams had a dip in form in 94, Benetton had the better car, whether legal, or not.
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f1mad
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(Original post by JOR2010)
Oh please. Everyone knows Williams had a dip in form in 94, Benetton had the better car, whether legal, or not.
I'm not gonna bother arguing this. Check Autosport forums and use its search tool .
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JOR2010
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(Original post by f1mad)
I'm not gonna bother arguing this. Check Autosport forums and use its search tool .
Just because you've read the Autosport forums doesn't mean an argument is correct. The fact is, although Senna's qualifying pace was always good, his in race form wasn't as good as Schumacher's. It is known that Senna was complaining about the performance of the Williams in the first few races.
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f1mad
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(Original post by JOR2010)
Just because you've read the Autosport forums doesn't mean an argument is correct. The fact is, although Senna's qualifying pace was always good, his in race form wasn't as good as Schumacher's. It is known that Senna was complaining about the performance of the Williams in the first few races.
Why don't you take my advice and see for yourself? Then make a judgement?
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JOR2010
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(Original post by f1mad)
Why don't you take my advice and see for yourself? Then make a judgement?
I'm not interested in the Autosport forums. My decision is based on the countless articles, videos, races, reports I've read about the 1994 and surrounding seasons. The Benetton was the better car in 1994, and in 1995.
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f1mad
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(Original post by JOR2010)
I'm not interested in the Autosport forums. My decision is based on the countless articles, videos, races, reports I've read about the 1994 and surrounding seasons. The Benetton was the better car in 1994, and in 1995.
More like you don't want to see a good debate in which you're wrong .

But fair enough.
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JOR2010
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(Original post by f1mad)
More like you don't want to see a good debate in which you're wrong .

But fair enough.
If you link me to the forum, I'd be interested to see what others have to say!
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Germo
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i dont think there will ever be a driver quite the same as senna... it is incomparible the way he drove that car, i recently watched the movie 'Senna' and i just couldnt believe the way he controlled the car, you could see that it was pushed beyond the limits of its capabilities and was constantly twitching. For me schummacher is too on rails, yes he is a fantastic driver there is no taking that away from him but i really dont think you can compare the two. And in respect for Ayrton i dont think he should be compared, he was quoted by Lauda as 'the best racing driver that ever lived' and i think we should let the proffesionals speak for what they know best.
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Marc Fiorano
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(Original post by Germo)
i think we should let the proffesionals speak for what they know best.
...then why are you making a judgement on how good Senna is?
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