What is the reason that Wales is still the poorest region in UK?
Am actually in the midst of trying to compile a paper on this topic. Anyone else ever wonder why Wales is still the poorest region in UK?
This region was once the largest producer of coal, it is still one of the largest area for agriculture in the Kingdom, it is for the most part one of the best areas for tourism with some of the cleanest beaches in all of EU. Despite billions of pounds of EU money being invested, there is still relatively little to show. Even with the current Barnett Formula of allocation of finances, it still remains economically depressed.
During the boom times of the 90s and 00's much of UK had a housing boom with many homes going up as much as 250% even in areas that weren't exactly "rich" but somehow this boom largely bypassed Wales.
Birmingham, often thought as the area that is going through a decline due to the disappearance of heavy industries isn't really poor per say.
20 years ago, there were 2 Germanys, one was one of the richest countries in the world, the other was among the poorest countries in Europe, average wage of an East German was around a quarter of that of a West German, much of DDR was in industrial decline and for the most part there wasn't a working market economy. Today living standards in the former DDR is almost the same as someone from the East, very likely if you drive a new BMW 3 series, chances are it was assembled in a factory that is in Leipzig, a city of the former DDR, Leipzig has one of the best research universities in the world.
Wonder why Wales despite devolution has yet to show any real sign of improvement despite starting from a significantly better position.
This region was once the largest producer of coal, it is still one of the largest area for agriculture in the Kingdom, it is for the most part one of the best areas for tourism with some of the cleanest beaches in all of EU. Despite billions of pounds of EU money being invested, there is still relatively little to show. Even with the current Barnett Formula of allocation of finances, it still remains economically depressed.
During the boom times of the 90s and 00's much of UK had a housing boom with many homes going up as much as 250% even in areas that weren't exactly "rich" but somehow this boom largely bypassed Wales.
Birmingham, often thought as the area that is going through a decline due to the disappearance of heavy industries isn't really poor per say.
20 years ago, there were 2 Germanys, one was one of the richest countries in the world, the other was among the poorest countries in Europe, average wage of an East German was around a quarter of that of a West German, much of DDR was in industrial decline and for the most part there wasn't a working market economy. Today living standards in the former DDR is almost the same as someone from the East, very likely if you drive a new BMW 3 series, chances are it was assembled in a factory that is in Leipzig, a city of the former DDR, Leipzig has one of the best research universities in the world.
Wonder why Wales despite devolution has yet to show any real sign of improvement despite starting from a significantly better position.
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Original post by Herr
Am actually in the midst of trying to compile a paper on this topic. Anyone else ever wonder why Wales is still the poorest region in UK?
This region was once the largest producer of coal, it is still one of the largest area for agriculture in the Kingdom, it is for the most part one of the best areas for tourism with some of the cleanest beaches in all of EU. Despite billions of pounds of EU money being invested, there is still relatively little to show. Even with the current Barnett Formula of allocation of finances, it still remains economically depressed.
During the boom times of the 90s and 00's much of UK had a housing boom with many homes going up as much as 250% even in areas that weren't exactly "rich" but somehow this boom largely bypassed Wales.
Birmingham, often thought as the area that is going through a decline due to the disappearance of heavy industries isn't really poor per say.
20 years ago, there were 2 Germanys, one was one of the richest countries in the world, the other was among the poorest countries in Europe, average wage of an East German was around a quarter of that of a West German, much of DDR was in industrial decline and for the most part there wasn't a working market economy. Today living standards in the former DDR is almost the same as someone from the East, very likely if you drive a new BMW 3 series, chances are it was assembled in a factory that is in Leipzig, a city of the former DDR, Leipzig has one of the best research universities in the world.
Wonder why Wales despite devolution has yet to show any real sign of improvement despite starting from a significantly better position.
This region was once the largest producer of coal, it is still one of the largest area for agriculture in the Kingdom, it is for the most part one of the best areas for tourism with some of the cleanest beaches in all of EU. Despite billions of pounds of EU money being invested, there is still relatively little to show. Even with the current Barnett Formula of allocation of finances, it still remains economically depressed.
During the boom times of the 90s and 00's much of UK had a housing boom with many homes going up as much as 250% even in areas that weren't exactly "rich" but somehow this boom largely bypassed Wales.
Birmingham, often thought as the area that is going through a decline due to the disappearance of heavy industries isn't really poor per say.
20 years ago, there were 2 Germanys, one was one of the richest countries in the world, the other was among the poorest countries in Europe, average wage of an East German was around a quarter of that of a West German, much of DDR was in industrial decline and for the most part there wasn't a working market economy. Today living standards in the former DDR is almost the same as someone from the East, very likely if you drive a new BMW 3 series, chances are it was assembled in a factory that is in Leipzig, a city of the former DDR, Leipzig has one of the best research universities in the world.
Wonder why Wales despite devolution has yet to show any real sign of improvement despite starting from a significantly better position.
Lack of financial sector, or heavy industry. Their primary industry is agriculture.
Original post by crazycake93
Lack of financial sector, or heavy industry. Their primary industry is agriculture.
No it's not, agriculture accounts for less than 1.5% of the Welsh economy.
I didn't even know it was.
If Wales is the poorest it is because there is precisely 0 private enterprise so no non-governmental jobs hence a poorer society. With primary sector working disappearing under Margret Thatcher. Like all primary sector areas the place became much poorer.
Roads are pretty poor in Wales it takes a long time to go anywhere- so why would people set up business there if it is a long way from money centers such a Birmingham and London.
I suspect the North East of England and Northern Ireland is poorer than many parts of Wales.
Roads are pretty poor in Wales it takes a long time to go anywhere- so why would people set up business there if it is a long way from money centers such a Birmingham and London.
I suspect the North East of England and Northern Ireland is poorer than many parts of Wales.
Because in east germany, there was lots of inefficiency due to the state control over the economy. That is relatively easy to eliminate, versus building entire industries. On top of that, wales is probably quite badly located (for massive ships its a bit akward to get to), though I don't know too mcuh about the welsh economic problems.
Original post by Angry cucumber
If Wales is the poorest it is because there is precisely 0 private enterprise so no non-governmental jobs hence a poorer society. With primary sector working disappearing under Margret Thatcher. Like all primary sector areas the place became much poorer.
Roads are pretty poor in Wales it takes a long time to go anywhere- so why would people set up business there if it is a long way from money centers such a Birmingham and London.
I suspect the North East of England and Northern Ireland is poorer than many parts of Wales.
Roads are pretty poor in Wales it takes a long time to go anywhere- so why would people set up business there if it is a long way from money centers such a Birmingham and London.
I suspect the North East of England and Northern Ireland is poorer than many parts of Wales.
Actually there are 170000 SMEs registered in Wales, though most of them are small or very small rather than medium sized. Surprisingly they do have a very low employment rate just 55% or so. Unfortunately most services are public, health or education.
A rather unknown fact, Wales produces 80% of all aluminium products in Britain.
Some of the most productive steel plants in EU are located in Wales, many of them producing some of the best rolled steel in the world.
70% of all land not within a national park is used for agriculture, primarily beef or lamb....... though vast majority of them are small farms rather than big commercial ones.
Average wage and economic contribution of Wales is marginally lower than that of Northern Ireland and the areas of England you mentioned.
Im from the North of England. My area's a ****hole. Absolute craphole. Wanna see a poor region? Move up north...
I love wales.
I love wales.
Original post by Herr
Actually there are 170000 SMEs registered in Wales, though most of them are small or very small rather than medium sized. Surprisingly they do have a very low employment rate just 55% or so. Unfortunately most services are public, health or education.
A rather unknown fact, Wales produces 80% of all aluminium products in Britain.
Some of the most productive steel plants in EU are located in Wales, many of them producing some of the best rolled steel in the world.
70% of all land not within a national park is used for agriculture, primarily beef or lamb....... though vast majority of them are small farms rather than big commercial ones.
Average wage and economic contribution of Wales is marginally lower than that of Northern Ireland and the areas of England you mentioned.
A rather unknown fact, Wales produces 80% of all aluminium products in Britain.
Some of the most productive steel plants in EU are located in Wales, many of them producing some of the best rolled steel in the world.
70% of all land not within a national park is used for agriculture, primarily beef or lamb....... though vast majority of them are small farms rather than big commercial ones.
Average wage and economic contribution of Wales is marginally lower than that of Northern Ireland and the areas of England you mentioned.
Off topic, but I remember you mentioning the fact your wife's Welsh before. Where in Wales is she from?
Original post by freedom1
You can't just throw money at something and it will suddenly become richer.
Pretty much this (I am actually agreeing with you!).
It can certainly help, but there needs to be a clear plan of what is going to happen.
And that will never happen because of political party / policy changes.
Migration from Wales cannot have helped. I am eligible to play football for Wales as my granddad was born there as were his three brothers and sisters. None of the family live in Wales now.
Original post by Lewis :D
Off topic, but I remember you mentioning the fact your ex-wife's Welsh before. Where in Wales is she from?
Wrexham.
Original post by uktotalgamer
Im from the North of England. My area's a ****hole. Absolute craphole. Wanna see a poor region? Move up north...
I love wales.
I love wales.
Which part of The North and which part of Wales are you comparing to?
Original post by WelshBluebird
Pretty much this (I am actually agreeing with you!).
It can certainly help, but there needs to be a clear plan of what is going to happen.
And that will never happen because of political party / policy changes.
It can certainly help, but there needs to be a clear plan of what is going to happen.
And that will never happen because of political party / policy changes.
You can't really pin everything on politics though, Germany in the 20 years since re-unification went through 3 new Chancellors, and 4 different governments CDU/CSU, SPD, SPD+CDU and now a full CDU. Seems like they did a fairly good job despite political changes.
There has only been 2 government changes in the same time period in Britain, though 3 different PMs of which 2 were of the same party.
Original post by Herr
Am actually in the midst of trying to compile a paper on this topic. Anyone else ever wonder why Wales is still the poorest region in UK?
This region was once the largest producer of coal, it is still one of the largest area for agriculture in the Kingdom, it is for the most part one of the best areas for tourism with some of the cleanest beaches in all of EU. Despite billions of pounds of EU money being invested, there is still relatively little to show. Even with the current Barnett Formula of allocation of finances, it still remains economically depressed.
During the boom times of the 90s and 00's much of UK had a housing boom with many homes going up as much as 250% even in areas that weren't exactly "rich" but somehow this boom largely bypassed Wales.
Birmingham, often thought as the area that is going through a decline due to the disappearance of heavy industries isn't really poor per say.
20 years ago, there were 2 Germanys, one was one of the richest countries in the world, the other was among the poorest countries in Europe, average wage of an East German was around a quarter of that of a West German, much of DDR was in industrial decline and for the most part there wasn't a working market economy. Today living standards in the former DDR is almost the same as someone from the East, very likely if you drive a new BMW 3 series, chances are it was assembled in a factory that is in Leipzig, a city of the former DDR, Leipzig has one of the best research universities in the world.
Wonder why Wales despite devolution has yet to show any real sign of improvement despite starting from a significantly better position.
This region was once the largest producer of coal, it is still one of the largest area for agriculture in the Kingdom, it is for the most part one of the best areas for tourism with some of the cleanest beaches in all of EU. Despite billions of pounds of EU money being invested, there is still relatively little to show. Even with the current Barnett Formula of allocation of finances, it still remains economically depressed.
During the boom times of the 90s and 00's much of UK had a housing boom with many homes going up as much as 250% even in areas that weren't exactly "rich" but somehow this boom largely bypassed Wales.
Birmingham, often thought as the area that is going through a decline due to the disappearance of heavy industries isn't really poor per say.
20 years ago, there were 2 Germanys, one was one of the richest countries in the world, the other was among the poorest countries in Europe, average wage of an East German was around a quarter of that of a West German, much of DDR was in industrial decline and for the most part there wasn't a working market economy. Today living standards in the former DDR is almost the same as someone from the East, very likely if you drive a new BMW 3 series, chances are it was assembled in a factory that is in Leipzig, a city of the former DDR, Leipzig has one of the best research universities in the world.
Wonder why Wales despite devolution has yet to show any real sign of improvement despite starting from a significantly better position.
It's not that Wales is 'declining' in absolutes terms (recent recession nothwithstanding) or that it hasn't grown its GDP roughly in line with the the UK average. It was hit hard by the decline of heavy industry, and so started from a lower base than most of the rest of the UK. To catch up it would need to grow faster than the rest of Britain which is unlikely given its geographical and educational disadvantages.
too busy bothering sheep to get their economy sorted out?
It probably doesn't help that most people haven't got a clue where/what Wales is, or think it's in London somewhere.
Because the Welsh economy is so uncompetitive, and the public sector is so huge there.
Essentially, consecutive Westminster governments haven't bothered to build any sort of stable, competitive economy in Wales - they don't need to when the receding Welsh economy can be more than offset by a (usually) booming London economy. There was simply no incentive to help the Welsh economy, an area full of safe, unchallengeable seats, that wouldn't drag the UK's economy down with it.
Devolution was supposed to remedy this by creating a government directly accountable to the state of the economy in Wales, giving the new Welsh Government both the powers to fix the economy, and the incentive to do so.
However, this failed for two main reasons - the first being that the Welsh Government originally wasn't given enough independence and power to bring about the radical change needed to turn the Welsh economy around, and secondly because no matter how bad the economy gets, Wales still votes Labour - so it doesn't matter if the economy is solved or not - no incentive.
However, with the Welsh people demanding more powers for the Assembly, this is likely to change (the WG's attitude, not necessarily the economy). As more and more of Welsh people's decisions are made in Cardiff, not London, the media in Wales naturally turns its focus to that. Wales will eventually throw the Labour government out (as all governments are eventually thrown out), and proper democracy will ensue. Then it becomes a matter of advocating Wales as a perfect centre of investment, with close links to the worlds corporations in Dublin, and the worlds financial sector in London.
Wales can't survive on tourism and agriculture (it doesn't work for African nations and it won't work for us). Scotland is increasingly following the path of energy as its 'niche' in our increasingly connected world. England, obviously, has financial services. It's now Wales' turn to find its own place in the world, and build an economy on that.
Essentially, consecutive Westminster governments haven't bothered to build any sort of stable, competitive economy in Wales - they don't need to when the receding Welsh economy can be more than offset by a (usually) booming London economy. There was simply no incentive to help the Welsh economy, an area full of safe, unchallengeable seats, that wouldn't drag the UK's economy down with it.
Devolution was supposed to remedy this by creating a government directly accountable to the state of the economy in Wales, giving the new Welsh Government both the powers to fix the economy, and the incentive to do so.
However, this failed for two main reasons - the first being that the Welsh Government originally wasn't given enough independence and power to bring about the radical change needed to turn the Welsh economy around, and secondly because no matter how bad the economy gets, Wales still votes Labour - so it doesn't matter if the economy is solved or not - no incentive.
However, with the Welsh people demanding more powers for the Assembly, this is likely to change (the WG's attitude, not necessarily the economy). As more and more of Welsh people's decisions are made in Cardiff, not London, the media in Wales naturally turns its focus to that. Wales will eventually throw the Labour government out (as all governments are eventually thrown out), and proper democracy will ensue. Then it becomes a matter of advocating Wales as a perfect centre of investment, with close links to the worlds corporations in Dublin, and the worlds financial sector in London.
Wales can't survive on tourism and agriculture (it doesn't work for African nations and it won't work for us). Scotland is increasingly following the path of energy as its 'niche' in our increasingly connected world. England, obviously, has financial services. It's now Wales' turn to find its own place in the world, and build an economy on that.
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