This discussion is now closed.
Check out other Related discussions
- Ask A Henrietta Barnett Student - New Year Sevens
- State school vs Grammar school for A Level
- i hate going to an all girls school
- Will my GCSE Grades hinder my Medical school application?
- What percentile am I in?
- Should I go to a grammar school or stay at my school for sixth form?
- Sixth Form Dilemma
- sixth form help?? grammar vs state etc. PLEASE HELP
- What was your 11+ exam experience like?
- What are the Best Sixth forms/colleges in Birmingham
- I don't know whether to stay in my school for sixth form or go to a grammar school
- Crush afraid.
- Left-wing Cambridge colleges
- Does leaving a good school leave a bad impression?
- Latin or Further Maths for A-level?
- sixth form college
- Are my gcses a problem for law?
- GCSE French Study Group 2024-25
- my experience at a grammar sixth form: help
- Is a grammar school really better than a ‘normal school?’
Why do some people dislike grammar schools????
Poll
Are grammar schools a good idea?
Ok im just so puzzled as to why some people dislike grammar schools? They allow those from poor backgrounds to have a good education and allow those to progress who are good enough.
What is the point in keeping intellectuals in a maths class with idiots who dont want to learn? That doesnt mean all compi people are idiots who dont want to learn, but there are quite a few there that dont. All you need is one and it'll ruin the lesson. Yes i am aware grammars have idiots slipping the net too.
It seems like those who dont like grammars are simply those who werent good enough to get in.
ps im writing this because i was annoyed that David Cameron made remarks that didnt really support extending grammar schools asif he was kissing the bums of labour supporters/potential tory voters.
What is the point in keeping intellectuals in a maths class with idiots who dont want to learn? That doesnt mean all compi people are idiots who dont want to learn, but there are quite a few there that dont. All you need is one and it'll ruin the lesson. Yes i am aware grammars have idiots slipping the net too.
It seems like those who dont like grammars are simply those who werent good enough to get in.
ps im writing this because i was annoyed that David Cameron made remarks that didnt really support extending grammar schools asif he was kissing the bums of labour supporters/potential tory voters.
Scroll to see replies
Because they're full of middle-class kids whose rich parents paid for them to have lots of tuition for the 11+ and thus guaranteeing them a good education with good teachers and who aren't actually very bright at all.
Oh, and I went to a grammar school for 7 years and there were approximately 4 people in my year of 110 who actually came from a really 'poor' background.
Oh, and I went to a grammar school for 7 years and there were approximately 4 people in my year of 110 who actually came from a really 'poor' background.
arkbar
Because they're full of middle-class kids whose rich parents paid for them to have lots of tuition for the 11+ and thus guaranteeing them a good education with good teachers and who aren't actually very bright at all.
ok there are quite a few faults with your statement
1) Why didnt they just pay for them to have a private education then?
2) At my grammar school i would say it was 50/50 between low and middle class, the same with my brothers grammar school and my friends grammar schools.
3) How can they have a good education if the teachers arent bright?
4) You cant be tutored for the 11+, just like you cannot revise how to add 1+1, 1+2, 1+3...... you have to learn how it works.
5) Are you saying that its wrong for parents to care about their childrens education?
By the way- you sound exactly like the jealous type who dislike grammar schools, yet if they were offered a place they would accept it straight away.
They are disliked because of class obsessed bigotry and misconceptions.
an Siarach
They are disliked because of class obsessed bigotry and misconceptions.
It take it from your vote in the poll thats your point of view.
I just have always wondered- how do these views arise if people that dont like grammars have never been to one.........
1)Because a grammar school education is free, thereby saving them lots of money for minimal initial cost
2)At mine and all the other ones in my county, they were mainly populated by the middle class who were shipped in from places up to 40 miles away just to go there.
3)I'm saying that many of the pupils aren't any brighter than a lot of comprehensive school kids, they just got the right teaching at the right time.
4)Ahahahahahahaaaaahahahahaha. No.
5)No, I'm saying that is what happens and although I don't like it, parents from middle class and upper class families are generally (for all sorts of reasons) inclined to spend more time and money on ensuring their kid goes to the right school.
By the way, I went to one.
2)At mine and all the other ones in my county, they were mainly populated by the middle class who were shipped in from places up to 40 miles away just to go there.
3)I'm saying that many of the pupils aren't any brighter than a lot of comprehensive school kids, they just got the right teaching at the right time.
4)Ahahahahahahaaaaahahahahaha. No.
5)No, I'm saying that is what happens and although I don't like it, parents from middle class and upper class families are generally (for all sorts of reasons) inclined to spend more time and money on ensuring their kid goes to the right school.
By the way, I went to one.
arkbar
1)Because a grammar school education is free, thereby saving them lots of money for minimal initial cost
2)At mine and all the other ones in my county, they were mainly populated by the middle class who were shipped in from places up to 40 miles away just to go there.
3)I'm saying that many of the pupils aren't any brighter than a lot of comprehensive school kids, they just got the right teaching at the right time.
4)Ahahahahahahaaaaahahahahaha. No.
5)No, I'm saying that is what happens and although I don't like it, parents from middle class and upper class families are generally (for all sorts of reasons) inclined to spend more time and money on ensuring their kid goes to the right school.
By the way, I went to one.
2)At mine and all the other ones in my county, they were mainly populated by the middle class who were shipped in from places up to 40 miles away just to go there.
3)I'm saying that many of the pupils aren't any brighter than a lot of comprehensive school kids, they just got the right teaching at the right time.
4)Ahahahahahahaaaaahahahahaha. No.
5)No, I'm saying that is what happens and although I don't like it, parents from middle class and upper class families are generally (for all sorts of reasons) inclined to spend more time and money on ensuring their kid goes to the right school.
By the way, I went to one.
Ok i do respect you for saying this if you did go to one.
On the other hand do you think its right to mix idiots with people that want to learn?
futureaussiecto
Ok i do respect you for saying this if you did go to one.
On the other hand do you think its right to mix idiots with people that want to learn?
On the other hand do you think its right to mix idiots with people that want to learn?
Blimey - that's a bit harsh, isn't it?
First of all , there are plenty of 'idiots' in grammar schools who don't want to learn and disrupt their classes in exactly the same manner as those 'idiots' in non selective schools do. 'Idiocy' is not restricted to the less able but rather those who are bored rigid for one reason or another and enjoy playing to the class rather than learning.
Secondly - you must remember that non-selective schools admit children of all abilities and these children are set and streamed according to their ability. They are not all 'thrown together' without any thought - although that is the perception that the pro-grammar lobby would like to give.
Thirdly - researchers have shown that the very brightest do better at comps than grammars. The average 'bright' do better at comps than grammars but the 'borderline' do better at grammars than comps.
And the borderline tend to be those who parents have paid for intensive coaching to enable them to pass the 11+ as they don't have the inherent ability to pass without this extra tuition. Therefore the reason they tend to do better at grammars than at comps is because their home background is more supportive and those kids from supportive homes do better anyway, no matter where they go to school.
People don't like grammar schools because they give an unfair advantage to the children who have parents able to pay for them to go there. If i had gone to a grammar school then i'd probably be better off now than i am.
Zoecb
Grammar schools are free, gas_panic!...
They're just selective. Money can't buy an IQ (which is basically what 11+ exams measure, really), I'm afraid.
They're just selective. Money can't buy an IQ (which is basically what 11+ exams measure, really), I'm afraid.
So why do schools organise their year 7's to practice the test papers? Of course you can tutor a child to pass this sort of test - those who need the tutoring though, generally end up at the bottom of the grammar school hierarachy and spend many miserable years trying to keep up.
Plus, getting mediocre results for external exams.
futureaussiecto
.................
4) You cant be tutored for the 11+, just like you cannot revise how to add 1+1, 1+2, 1+3...... you have to learn how it works.
.........................
4) You cant be tutored for the 11+, just like you cannot revise how to add 1+1, 1+2, 1+3...... you have to learn how it works.
.........................
Yes you can, my sister has got a tutor for her 11+ (she's in year 5) as did the girl in year 6 in my sisters school. The problem is the junior school is the best in the immediate area but not good enough for her. The tutor does more than tutor her in 11+, does maths, science and english. When i took the 11+, alot of people who took the 11+ and paased had a tutor...... The local comp i went to was ok back in the day but since i have left, it has gradually got worse and i fear by the time she gets there (also i suffered from racist a***oles in the school but me and my bro at least being male could stand up and fight, and unfortunately she will be on her own) the school will get worse. Then again i did very well in my exams so years 7-10 are a waste of time. Alevel, well the environment was very good as only those who wanted to learn stayed back! My 2 cents!
yawn
So why do schools organise their year 7's to practice the test papers? Of course you can tutor a child to pass this sort of test - those who need the tutoring though, generally end up at the bottom of the grammar school hierarachy and spend many miserable years trying to keep up.
Plus, getting mediocre results for external exams.
Plus, getting mediocre results for external exams.
You are very much mistaken my friend. I indeed did have tutoring for the 11+, passed the test as well, however I was 5th on the waiting list and because it was a competative year I went to a comp for 3 months in year 7.
Now fast forward to where I am now, year 12. I am most cetainly not "at the bottom of the grammar school hierarachy". My GCSEs were fairly good and I would say I was in the top 15 of 120. I am pretty sure that if I had stayed in the comp I would not nearly have achieved as many A*s or As as I did. I would have probably got some Bs as well.
So I would have to say that your statement above is absolute rubbish quite frankly.
yawn
Blimey - that's a bit harsh, isn't it?
First of all , there are plenty of 'idiots' in grammar schools who don't want to learn and disrupt their classes in exactly the same manner as those 'idiots' in non selective schools do. 'Idiocy' is not restricted to the less able but rather those who are bored rigid for one reason or another and enjoy playing to the class rather than learning.
First of all , there are plenty of 'idiots' in grammar schools who don't want to learn and disrupt their classes in exactly the same manner as those 'idiots' in non selective schools do. 'Idiocy' is not restricted to the less able but rather those who are bored rigid for one reason or another and enjoy playing to the class rather than learning.
please read my initial post
"Yes i am aware grammars have idiots slipping the net too."
In response to the other people- you cannot be tutored for the 11+!!!
eg When i did it, on the english paper we had a Q. about the titantic sinking.
Q.1 What time did the titanic sink?
A- Was in the first sentence of the case study.
How can you be tutored for this???? Its common sense and intelligence testing!!
People who disagree with grammar schools would have to disagree with the top 10 universities. Both teach the brightest- whats the difference?
You dont have to be rich to walk into WH Smith and buy for £5.99 some exam papers to help your child.
Perhaps instead of letting them going around on the street p*ssing people off, causing havoc kicking a football at their cars- they could instead help their children on their 11+.
Maybe there is a social divide, but thats because the poor dont want to learn and the rich do- is that wrong of the rich??
yawn
So why do schools organise their year 7's to practice the test papers? Of course you can tutor a child to pass this sort of test - those who need the tutoring though, generally end up at the bottom of the grammar school hierarachy and spend many miserable years trying to keep up.
Plus, getting mediocre results for external exams.
Plus, getting mediocre results for external exams.
Well yes exactly. Tutoring only really produces an illusion - it's like singing; lessons can make you better but you need some ability to start with.
grammar schools are the only educational institutes where you are sure there are no chavs lurking round every corner smoking their lungs out, and that there are no pons eton rejectees who bring caviar in their packed lunches. it basically can be summed up as a building of hard working intellectuals.
arkbar
Because they're full of middle-class kids whose rich parents paid for them to have lots of tuition for the 11+ and thus guaranteeing them a good education with good teachers and who aren't actually very bright at all.
Oh, and I went to a grammar school for 7 years and there were approximately 4 people in my year of 110 who actually came from a really 'poor' background.
Oh, and I went to a grammar school for 7 years and there were approximately 4 people in my year of 110 who actually came from a really 'poor' background.
At least these will be the kids who are willing to work.
Just proves - if a not-too-naturally-intelligent person wants to go to grammar school, then they are quite capable if they just work hard. Evidently the ones from poorer backgrounds aren't so willing.
JonD
I consider my post-primary schooling to have been a waste, primarilly because the learning environment was wrecked by people that lacked the ability or interest to be schooled.
I feel roughly the same. Plus some subjects really seemed to cater to the complete morons.
I live in an LEA that is wholly selective.
It's performance at key stage 3, key stage 4 and A level is abysmal in comparison to it's 'statistical neighbours'.
The reason that its grammars are very mediocre is because there is a preponderance of them in all districts.
You might get very good results from selective schools where the catchment area extends up to 40 miles or so, but when you have 3 within a school population of 1200 you can see that they have to take up up to 30% of that population and therefore do not have many very able children attending them.
If we had a return to wide spread selection this situation would predominate all over the country.
My knowledge is based on critical examination of the county's performance and why it fails its pupils because of its political creed.
It's performance at key stage 3, key stage 4 and A level is abysmal in comparison to it's 'statistical neighbours'.
The reason that its grammars are very mediocre is because there is a preponderance of them in all districts.
You might get very good results from selective schools where the catchment area extends up to 40 miles or so, but when you have 3 within a school population of 1200 you can see that they have to take up up to 30% of that population and therefore do not have many very able children attending them.
If we had a return to wide spread selection this situation would predominate all over the country.
My knowledge is based on critical examination of the county's performance and why it fails its pupils because of its political creed.
Related discussions
- Ask A Henrietta Barnett Student - New Year Sevens
- State school vs Grammar school for A Level
- i hate going to an all girls school
- Will my GCSE Grades hinder my Medical school application?
- What percentile am I in?
- Should I go to a grammar school or stay at my school for sixth form?
- Sixth Form Dilemma
- sixth form help?? grammar vs state etc. PLEASE HELP
- What was your 11+ exam experience like?
- What are the Best Sixth forms/colleges in Birmingham
- I don't know whether to stay in my school for sixth form or go to a grammar school
- Crush afraid.
- Left-wing Cambridge colleges
- Does leaving a good school leave a bad impression?
- Latin or Further Maths for A-level?
- sixth form college
- Are my gcses a problem for law?
- GCSE French Study Group 2024-25
- my experience at a grammar sixth form: help
- Is a grammar school really better than a ‘normal school?’
Latest
Trending
Last reply 1 month ago
Mums furious after photo firm offers to delete kids in wheelchairs from school pics
