German universities better than British Russel group Universities?

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greenforce
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Germany has been famous for it's physicists,chemists,mathematicia ns and of course Engineers.What is the secret behind it?Are the universities in Germany better equipped and funded then those in Britain,or the education system their is more research oriented and promotes independent study then the British?

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kat2pult
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http://www.topuniversities.com/unive...-rankings/2011 suggests otherwise.

http://www.timeshighereducation.co.u...2/top-400.html shows that there are 32 UK universities in the top 200 as opposed to 14 from Germany.

It's probably equal in terms of the Russell Group, if not slightly in the RG's favour.
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Cabine Sono Qui
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The uni's aren't better, the german high school system is better (technical education etc)
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!-Twisty-!
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I haven't experienced german education but know a few german students over here studying at newcastle from undergrad to phd.

They all seem to believe the uni's over here are better.

However as said, I haven't looked into their education system etc and so can only take their word.
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nightmare91
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(Original post by greenforce)
Germany has been famous for it's physicists,chemists,mathematicia ns and of course Engineers.What is the secret behind it?Are the universities in Germany better equipped and funded then those in Britain,or the education system their is more research oriented and promotes independent study then the British?

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As a German I can tell you German universities aren't that great. For engineering, yes, because many top carmakers such as Daimler and BMW recruit from our top engineering schools like TU Munich. For everything else, German universities are on par with universities like Manchester or Bath. We don't have elite universities like you (Imperial, Oxbridge, LSE) but we don't have really bad universities either (London Met for instance).

I think the British university system is much better than ours. That is also the reason why I'll be studying in the UK this year
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Alexok
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Most of the Physicists working at CERN in Switzerland are from Britain, despite Germany being much closer. I also believe its just the German engineering industry that's doing better than the UK, and not much difference between the actual innovative ideas arisen
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username424118
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Well, I'm from Germany and our universities are mostly mediocre. It's not like in England, we haven't unis like Oxford/Cambridge or the top London unis, but our unis are all more or less equally good. Maybe Heidelberg and Munich are better than other german unis, but apart from them they're all pretty much the same. I still wouldn't say that uni-education in Germany is any worse than in Britian, it just doesn't come through in the rankings.

Furthermore we have several very renowned research institutes like Max-Planck, Fraunhofer, Leibniz. Thus research isn't only done at unis. If you look at citation/paper output rankings you will see that Max-Planck ranks just after Harvard before any other university worldwide.
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Hank_Moody
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I normally study business/economics in Germany and have spent one term so far at the University of Warwick as an exchange student. Basically, I've been going out and getting smashed at least 3 times a week and just revised for one week before exams/tests, which still resulted in firsts in every single module. It's laughably easy compared to Germany, not just for me but for all German exchange students I know here (albeit you should bear in mind that we tend to be among the best students at our home unis, otherwise we wouldn't be here). However, we still essentially learn the same things, the German approach is just a bit more rigorous.
That being said, I wouldn't deem our system better, equipment and especially student support are far superior in England as the difference in tuition fees becomes quite obvious in these areas (we don't have any in Germany).
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nightmare91
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(Original post by greenforce)
Germany has been famous for it's physicists,chemists,mathematicia ns and of course Engineers.What is the secret behind it?Are the universities in Germany better equipped and funded then those in Britain,or the education system their is more research oriented and promotes independent study then the British?

express yourself !
Here is the proof of what the other poster above me just posted:

http://www.timeshighereducation.co.u...orycode=408424

Max Planck society ranks second after Harvard. France and Germany have many institutions that do most of the research whereas the USA and the UK mostly have universities that produce all the research output.
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greenforce
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(Original post by Cabine Sono Qui)
The uni's aren't better, the german high school system is better (technical education etc)

In what sense.I mean I followed the British pattern of study.I feel it is quite good.But when I see the engineering filed the Germans are on top.Of course Britain has Bombardier,BAE etc but everyone knows about german industry.Could you give an insight of what technical education or aspects you are referring to in education.thanks
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greenforce
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(Original post by Hank_Moody)
I normally study business/economics in Germany and have spent one term so far at the University of Warwick as an exchange student. Basically, I've been going out and getting smashed at least 3 times a week and just revised for one week before exams/tests, which still resulted in firsts in every single module. It's laughably easy compared to Germany, not just for me but for all German exchange students I know here (albeit you should bear in mind that we tend to be among the best students at our home unis, otherwise we wouldn't be here). However, we still essentially learn the same things, the German approach is just a bit more rigorous.
That being said, I wouldn't deem our system better, equipment and especially student support are far superior in England as the difference in tuition fees becomes quite obvious in these areas (we don't have any in Germany).

Well yeah I know about the exchange student terms really well.So I agree.But germans just have exams at the end of a semester.Where as in British system the term has a lot of assignments,quizes,exams and sometimes mid term exams.So how do you coup with the change?
How do you rank the universities.I am essential talking about the student feedback.
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crazycake93
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Just waiting for this thread to become a UK vs Germany debate...

-10 rep goes to the first person who mentions the war.
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greenforce
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(Original post by jaklargerne)
Well, I'm from Germany and our universities are mostly mediocre. It's not like in England, we haven't unis like Oxford/Cambridge or the top London unis, but our unis are all more or less equally good. Maybe Heidelberg and Munich are better than other german unis, but apart from them they're all pretty much the same. I still wouldn't say that uni-education in Germany is any worse than in Britian, it just doesn't come through in the rankings.

Furthermore we have several very renowned research institutes like Max-Planck, Fraunhofer, Leibniz. Thus research isn't only done at unis. If you look at citation/paper output rankings you will see that Max-Planck ranks just after Harvard before any other university worldwide.
Well I am not the guy who goes for rankings.I really look for the student feedback.Because when people go to LSE,they say they miss the campus life-I am sure guys from London would know what I am talking about.Apart from it Germany is pretty much closed when it comes to internationalization.The german students tend to stay away from the international ones.And when I mean international it doesn't mean people from France,Sweden etc..German neighbors actually..I would agree with the research institute ranking.



But if we just talk about other universities of England apart from Imperial,Oxbridge,Kings College,LSE,UCL ...how do you compare them with german university system and Professor's relations with students ,teaching quality,labs, lab equipment.
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greenforce
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(Original post by crazycake93)
Just waiting for this thread to become a UK vs Germany debate...

-10 rep goes to the first person who mentions the war.
haha.Is it true that Winston Churchill and Hitler had this agreement that they would bomb the "two specific" universities of each country!!

But if we just talk about other universities of England apart from Imperial,Oxbridge,Kings College,LSE,UCL ...how do you compare them with german university system and Professor's relations with students ,teaching quality,labs, lab equipment.
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greenforce
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(Original post by nightmare91)
Here is the proof of what the other poster above me just posted:

http://www.timeshighereducation.co.u...orycode=408424

Max Planck society ranks second after Harvard. France and Germany have many institutions that do most of the research whereas the USA and the UK mostly have universities that produce all the research output.
Of course Oxford has produced a lot of world leaders.
But if we just talk about other universities of England apart from Imperial,Oxbridge,Kings College,LSE,UCL ...how do you compare them with german university system and Professor's relations with students ,teaching quality,labs, lab equipment.
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JetLeechan
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As a rule of thumb I would say british universities are generally better in regard to study environment, student satisfaction, equipment, library and so on.
As for the teaching, or rather, how much one learns, I'd say that German universities in general are better than british ones. But since there are no top unis in Germany, top uni students in Britain are - in general - a little better than the top students in Germany.
This is all based on my own experience with no reference to league tables or scientific journal or books or anything.
Also I would argue that british universities in general, prepare their students better for their entry into the job market. And at the end of the day, I wonder, is it really better to know x% more or be a tad better in something than being teached the necessary skills to survive in society, in other words, how to make a living?
Well, this is my impression, given the fact that the German higher education system is gradually shifting to become more like the british, its just a very broad generalisation that won't survive the next 5 years. But for now, I stand to my words.
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greenforce
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(Original post by JetLeechan)
As a rule of thumb I would say british universities are generally better in regard to study environment, student satisfaction, equipment, library and so on.
As for the teaching, or rather, how much one learns, I'd say that German universities in general are better than british ones. But since there are no top unis in Germany, top uni students in Britain are - in general - a little better than the top students in Germany.
This is all based on my own experience with no reference to league tables or scientific journal or books or anything.
Also I would argue that british universities in general, prepare their students better for their entry into the job market. And at the end of the day, I wonder, is it really better to know x% more or be a tad better in something than being teached the necessary skills to survive in society, in other words, how to make a living?
Well, this is my impression, given the fact that the German higher education system is gradually shifting to become more like the british, its just a very broad generalisation that won't survive the next 5 years. But for now, I stand to my words.
The german university culture has been like this forever?
but i don't get it,from where do they get all the researches and make break through in the technologies.I totally agree that some Britain do have world class universities-thought they are few of them(strictly in my opinion.)

But even engineering studies at TU Munchen would be same as University of Munster..or etc..i mean is it like there is no difference.
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Germany
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Right now Germany is at sixth place in the world competitive ranking, USA 7th and UK 8th, Switzerland, Singapore, Finland, South Korea in the lead.

Speaking about universities there are big differences between the UK and Germany. In the UK you are something like a customer as a student, it's not like that in Germany, even not as a PhD student, unless you really excel.

Leaving Cambridge and Oxford alone, probably also UCL, Germany's leading universities (the top 24 up to even top 60) can well be compared to the Russell group, while it's never the same. There is a top group, but it's no harm when you have studied elsewhere, though the competition gets more intense. In the past there was not much competition at all, funding was appropriate to number of students and in the boondocks conditions were better than in hipster Berlin (which still is Germany's region with the by far highest poverty rate).

Those world university rankings measure Research Capacity mainly. Nobel Prize winners, citations in Nature and Science, which gives American and UK a natural advantage, however big but it exists.

For example, Top science outside private enterprises in Germany takes very often place in non-university post-gradual institutes. Max Planck Society has a citation impact even higher than Harvard university, there are numerous Fraunhofer institutes for helping to apply science, fundamental, technology and economic research is done at Helmholtz and Leibniz society. Only the USA have institutes comparable to those with their accumulated output and in Germany they play a special role in non-university but close to university research, which is not well represented in the world rankings, if it is represented at all.

Many countries have no elite universities but elite academic societies while Germany's are the strongest. For example next door here in Dresden there are two Max Planck Institutes. They have professors also from Cambridge, Caltech, partner with Harvard Medical School and visit the MIT on a regular basis, but they don't represent a special university, they represent their research society. Meanwhile there is close cooperation with the local TU Dresden though, it's part of the strategy to attract more international students. They (TU Dresden) have something like 15% international students now, which is already rather a good number, most of the from Russia and China, most Freshmen from China and momentary the USA, but it's no long-term trend, Russia and former Eastern blog are more typical. I cannot say much about all those Chinese student, but they are a lot, also some from India and numbers, quality rising.

LSE is known as selective university and there is no doubt about their class. But I know of some suckers who were sent there from their Global firm as a very last trial to educate them at all, so I think even there it depends on the individual student.

Of course, when you want to study nano-electronics there is only TU Dresden and Cambridge. I like both of them. :-)

Seriously, recommended universities of applied sciences left alone, here, finally, is the German Russell group:

Technology:

RWTH Aachen
TU Berlin
TU Braunschweig
TU Darmstadt
TU Dresden
Leibniz Universität Hannover
Karlsruher Institut für Technologie
TU München
Universität Stuttgart

See also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_...nce_Initiative

Others:
Freie Universität Berlin
Humboldt-Universität zu Berlin
Rheinische Friedrich-Wilhelms-Universität Bonn
Johann Wolfgang Goethe-Universität Frankfurt am Main
Albert-Ludwigs-Universität Freiburg
Georg-August-Universität Göttingen
Universität Hamburg
Ruprecht-Karls-Universität Heidelberg
Universität zu Köln
Universität Leipzig
Johannes Gutenberg-Universität Mainz
Ludwig-Maximilians-Universität München
Westfälische Wilhelms-Universität
Eberhard Karls Universität Tübingen
Julius-Maximilians-Universität Würzburg
Number 25 is the business school of Uni Mannheim.

All those universities have no own airport but the dormitories are not very shabby.

Why British Students go to Germany
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education...o-Germany.html
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Dirac Delta Function
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(Original post by greenforce)
Germany has been famous for it's physicists,chemists,mathematicia ns and of course Engineers.What is the secret behind it?Are the universities in Germany better equipped and funded then those in Britain,or the education system their is more research oriented and promotes independent study then the British?

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There's no secret, they are clever people and highly disciplined.
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Sir Fox
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(Original post by kat2pult)
http://www.topuniversities.com/unive...-rankings/2011 suggests otherwise.

http://www.timeshighereducation.co.u...2/top-400.html shows that there are 32 UK universities in the top 200 as opposed to 14 from Germany.

It's probably equal in terms of the Russell Group, if not slightly in the RG's favour.
And we all know how accurate rankings are

(Original post by jaklargerne)
Furthermore we have several very renowned research institutes like Max-Planck, Fraunhofer, Leibniz. Thus research isn't only done at unis. If you look at citation/paper output rankings you will see that Max-Planck ranks just after Harvard before any other university worldwide.
That's a good point - German non-university research institutions produce research of an immense quality. This cannot be factored in by rankings as they aren't part of universities. However, recently some universities and research institutes have started close collaborations.

(Original post by JetLeechan)
As a rule of thumb I would say british universities are generally better in regard to study environment, student satisfaction, equipment, library and so on.
Agree with the student satisfaction and study environment, disagree in terms of equipment and library.

But since there are no top unis in Germany, top uni students in Britain are - in general - a little better than the top students in Germany.
Aaaand this is absolute bunk. First of all, there are top universities such as Heidelberg, LMU and TU München etc. Then again you attribute graduates abilities to the university's reputation. I won't go into detail now, but there are many reasons why this is not the case and Germany produces as many top graduates as the UK.
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