The NHS kills an elderly lady; when will it be scrapped? Watch

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Otkem
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#41
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#41
(Original post by Silkielemon)
Great.

To make it 'affordable' you'd have to subsidise it.

WAHEY THE NHS AGAIN.

You see how your logic is circular and pointless? If you want it cheap, it'll be government funded, which is the NHS. If you don't want it cheap, you want people to die for no reason like the US.

Also; on cancer Read

It won't nearly be as big a gap as you seem to make out.
It would be partly subsidised to make it affordable, not a state-run killing machine (i.e. the NHS in its present form).
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AlmostChicGeek
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#42
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#42
(Original post by Otkem)
Yes, as more due care and attention will be taken. Paying for other people's healthcare is the thing in life that I most resent. Greedy ****ers lapping up my taxes.
More due care and attention wasn't take with the breast implants debacle that private medical companies performed...
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ashtoreth
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#43
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#43
however poor the service may get from time to time. it is the fundamental right of EVERYONE in this country to get equal access to treatment on the NHS. making it an insurance based service will simply penalise those that can ill afford it.

for those that don't like paying for others. rest assured that when u are drooling into your soup in an old farts home, some other poor ******* was paying for you way back when, and that's why u get to enjoy sponge bath time!

and clearly some of the posts are SO bizarre as to be a wind up. i got an assignment to write ffs! >>>>
Otkem
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#44
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#44
(Original post by AlmostChicGeek)
More due care and attention wasn't take with the breast implants debacle that private medical companies performed...
I have no sympathy for those women. They had those problems because they wanted big knockers on the cheap. For good surgery, you've got to be expected to pay.
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Silkielemon
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#45
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(Original post by Otkem)
It would be partly subsidised to make it affordable, not a state-run killing machine (i.e. the NHS in its present form).
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHA. State run killing machine!?!

Were do you get this stuff.

Partly? Okay, factoring increased cost of healthcare under a private system, then removing a large chunk of tax to the government for the NHS, means the government will be paying, out of pocket, for basically what we get now, just more expensive.

Kudos, you've cost everyone loads of money, made some people very rich, made some people very ill because of the irregular and useless standard of private healthcare and basically caused a huge mound of mess for absolutely no reason

Just because it is 'state-run' does not make it crap. Just because horrible accidents happen does not make it crap. Look at those links posted back a page, 40000 dead due to health insurance. FORTY THOUSAND vs a few people every year?
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lonelykatana
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#46
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#46
(Original post by Otkem)
Blah blah blah

One mistake doesn't out weigh the lives they save.

There is nothing stopping those who object to the NHS getting private health insurance.
The NHS should be there to provide for everyone, regardless of any variables at all.
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AlmostChicGeek
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#47
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(Original post by Otkem)
I have no sympathy for those women. They had those problems because they wanted big knockers on the cheap. For good surgery, you've got to be expected to pay.
Nope the mark up is huge, and they didn't get to choose which kind of implants that were put in.

It isn't their fault at all.


Anyway, the private companies have a duty of care to these patients. If that is the way they are going to act, no way should NHS be privatised... :rolleyes:
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InArduisFouette
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#48
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#48
(Original post by Classical Liberal)
There does seem to be a serious problem of accoutability in the NHS. The Stafford hospital deparcle is a prime example.
the primary problem with accountability in the NHS , is that lay managers cannot be 'struck off' ...

the secondary problem with accountability in the NHS is the way in which during 13 glorious years of Liarbore (mis)government performance was measured in terms of pointless metrics rather than actual outcomes.

the NHS has a problem with

1. bloated lay management leading to group think and a focuse on process or implementation of the latest buzzword ridden directive from the Political Commisars.
2. targets which are based in pointless metrics rather than clinical outcomes - although there has been significant progress on this in some areas since liarbore were removed.
3. An utter lack of effective investment in developing Nursing leadership , we sit in a scenario where many Staff Nurses and Band 6s ( whether SSN or Sister / Charge Nurse) are more qualified than their first and second line managers ( there are few Educated Nurses at Ward Manager level vs 'Trained Nurses' , and hardly any at Matron level and virtually none at Assistant director or Director of Nursing level )
4. AHP leadership is marginalised and often subject to divide and conquer tactics by lay management
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Hopple
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#49
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#49
It isn't the NHS' fault as it's a method accepted worldwide, but the details of the method really surprised me.

Slice a hole, stick your hand in and yank the kidney out? I could do that! Sure I'd probably need training to identify by feel only if it was the right organ or a lump of fat or something, but the surgeon said "I put my hand inside and felt an organ and I pulled it," which just amazes me. The 'proper' way to do it was that? And people all over the world thought this was a good idea? Just me sitting here thinks that's incredibly stupid, what happens if you don't pull hard enough and the blood vessels don't seize up? You should ensure there is no internal bleeding anyway.
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buchanan700
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#50
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#50
The NHS has nothing to do with it. It was human error - something that occurs in ANY system. The NHS is absolutely essential, as ANY person of ANY financial situation has the RIGHT to free and EQUAL treatment. I certainly don't mind paying (or rather, not paying, at the moment), for something that ensures that even a poverty striken baby has the healthcare it needs, and I won't get any nasty suprises if I am ever in need. If they scrapped it... I don't know... I'd probably move to Canada.

Don't like it? Go to bupa or whatever, or **** off to America, where children and the elderly, and potentially anyone, could DIE because they do not have the money. Where healthcare workers get BONUSES based on how many treatments they refuse.

/rant over
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Keckers
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#51
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(Original post by Silkielemon)
You regularly make threads picking a choosing cases, do you want me to find the equivalent from America (privatised)?
The American health care model is not based on free markets.

It's barely even privatised for that matter.

Edit: Bloody hell, do the majority of people seriously believe the only other health care model anywhere in the world is the American system?!
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SpicyStrawberry
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#52
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#52
The NHS is one establishment in the UK we should be proud of. Of course it isn't perfect, but nothing ever is for some people. It's tragic this lady died, but if you weigh up how many people's lives have been saved thanks to NHS staff against fatalities and mistakes, you can see that it is crucial to keep in this country. All doctors are trained in universities and end up working all over the place not just the NHS, why scrap the whole system because of a few human errors?

If you don't like the NHS, go private.
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InArduisFouette
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#53
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#53
(Original post by Silkielemon)
Because, humans are not laid out nicely inside. It's messy, it's all red and even experienced members of staff can make mistakes.

Honestly, WHY do you think this wouldn't happen in a private system? What makes it better? Being more expensive and inhumane to the poorer members of society?

You regularly make threads picking a choosing cases, do you want me to find the equivalent from America (privatised)? Do you want me to a make a thread EVERY SINGLE TIME someone is treated with no problems?

**** happens, they will be held accountable, it's ruddy unfortunate and I'm sure everyone involved in it feels bloody awful. Why would them having more money affect the outcome?
it wouldn't have made a jot of difference, in fact a privatised service would have been more likely to ensure that She didn't survive the Op as all the costs would have to be born by the hospital ...

the consultant in question no doubts kicks himself every day for not converting to an open procedure at the point where doubts were raised ...
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Besakt
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#54
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#54
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10375877
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Otkem
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#55
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#55
The Commonwealth Fund is a lobby group for Obamacare. If they told me the sky was blue I would request a second opinion.
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InArduisFouette
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#56
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(Original post by Otkem)
At least I wouldn't be paying for other peoples' healthcare.
herein the illogical basis of Otkem's argument

in a system like the US you are still paying for other people's healthcare , in fact you are paying many times over

1. for the state funded services you can't access

2. for those who can't or won't pay and the costs the providers get in trying to chase them for payment

3. the premiums for insurance and direct payments you make

IIRC the primary cause of personal bankruptcy in the USA is health costs.
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Chwirkytheappleboy
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#57
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#57
(Original post by Otkem)
Yes, as more due care and attention will be taken.
Why would someone who cares more about money than the health of their patients be more careful than someone who is motivated by compassion? As a Consultant, Adam Carter could easily do private work and make 4 times his current salary, but instead chooses to work in the NHS. I think that represents a choice to put care of patients before money, and thus I expect he is very conscientious... more so than someone who just sees a wad of cash lying on the operating table rather than a person

Paying for other people's healthcare is the thing in life that I most resent. Greedy ****ers lapping up my taxes.
While I don't wish illnesses on anyone, I would not be remotely surprised if you found yourself in need of NHS services in the future, at which point you might be grateful that you're being taken care of rather than being allowed to die because you can't pay for what you need. Remember the world is an unfair place; what if you got made redundant, lost your health insurance benefits, and then got diagnosed with a potentially fatal illness? I'm willing to bet you'd be very quick to claim your entitlement to free treatment
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hamijack
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#58
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#58
Oktem kills student by boring him to death with retarded thread; when will he be banned?
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InArduisFouette
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#59
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#59
(Original post by AlmostChicGeek)
You are mental OP just earn enough money to get private healthcare, and then you won't have to worry.

I am for private healthcare because I think it can be very beneficial for companies and even for the NHS, but privatisation of the whole thing is stupid.
Private healthcare n the UK exists only because it can cherry pick the most profitable procedures and can dump patients on the NHS when it goes wrong.
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Otkem
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#60
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#60
(Original post by Chwirkytheappleboy)
Why would someone who cares more about money than the health of their patients be more careful than someone who is motivated by compassion? As a Consultant, Adam Carter could easily do private work and make 4 times his current salary, but instead chooses to work in the NHS. I think that represents a choice to put care of patients before money, and thus I expect he is very conscientious... more so than someone who just sees a wad of cash lying on the operating table rather than a person



While I don't wish illnesses on anyone, I would not be remotely surprised if you found yourself in need of NHS services in the future, at which point you might be grateful that you're being taken care of rather than being allowed to die because you can't pay for what you need. Remember the world is an unfair place; what if you got made redundant, lost your health insurance benefits, and then got diagnosed with a potentially fatal illness? I'm willing to bet you'd be very quick to claim your entitlement to free treatment
Adam Carter works for the NHS because Adam Carter wasn't good enough to get a job in a commercial system. If anything, that makes me fear NHS doctors more than respect their dedication.
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