Oxford or UCL for law
Hi! I have offers from Oxford (Christ Church) and UCL for law. But I am not sure whether I should put Oxford as my firm. All the people I have talked to said it is obivous that I should put Oxford as firm, but I am giving this a second thought because the UCL course looks more attractive to me. At UCL you can apply for the Columbia JA/LLB double degree programme in your second year which is very attractive. You will obtain two law degrees- one in English law from UCL and one in American law from Columbia- upon graduation. Whereas at Oxford you only get an English law degree upon graduation. Where should I go? Any advice and comment will be appreciated
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Ohmigod..do I know you? I apped to ChCh as well..no offer for me tho...I think if the American option appeals to you and that a career in America is something what you would like rather than one in England, UCL is the choice for you. Having said that, you can always go on and do a masters or phD somewhere in America if you go to Oxford...Up to you tho but don't get too hung up on it after all you have great options.
Oakes
Hi! I have offers from Oxford (Christ Church) and UCL for law. But I am not sure whether I should put Oxford as my firm. All the people I have talked to said it is obivous that I should put Oxford as firm, but I am giving this a second thought because the UCL course looks more attractive to me. At UCL you can apply for the Columbia JA/LLB double degree programme in your second year which is very attractive. You will obtain two law degrees- one in English law from UCL and one in American law from Columbia- upon graduation. Whereas at Oxford you only get an English law degree upon graduation. Where should I go? Any advice and comment will be appreciated !
!The American thing at UCL I think is only open to a small amount of the class each year, probably under 10 people a year.
if i were u , i will put chris church as my confirm.
that is even not only oxford, but chris church
i have been there , chris church, it is fabulous. and i have also had a dinner in oriel hall, although it is much smaller than chris church, it is really brilliant!
and the tutorial system for undergraduate students is also a good method to enhance the students' ability, which differentiates oxbridge from other universities in the UK and the american counterparts.
as to the JD/LL.B double degree programme, u 'd better double-check it from UCL web site, as far as i know, only two students can get the chances to take the programme, but in LSE more opportunities for its students.
however, the question is why u need do the joint degree. BA in jurisprudence from OXFORD could be sufficent , if not adequate, for you to get offers from MC or TOP 10.
in a word, in my eyes, as a foreign student and also a legal practitioner in another jurisdiction, BA from OXFORD is better than JD/LL.B, providing that u can undertake the programme.
In China, few common people hear of Columbia Uni, but almost all the people know OXFORD.
PS, one of my friends had the LL.M offer from Columbia Uni, and when he told his parents that he would go there to do his master degree, his mother asked him why he wanted to go the place of drugs dealing and fortune soldiers
do not blame his mother,she even does not know the university of Columbia .
that is even not only oxford, but chris church
i have been there , chris church, it is fabulous. and i have also had a dinner in oriel hall, although it is much smaller than chris church, it is really brilliant!
and the tutorial system for undergraduate students is also a good method to enhance the students' ability, which differentiates oxbridge from other universities in the UK and the american counterparts.
as to the JD/LL.B double degree programme, u 'd better double-check it from UCL web site, as far as i know, only two students can get the chances to take the programme, but in LSE more opportunities for its students.
however, the question is why u need do the joint degree. BA in jurisprudence from OXFORD could be sufficent , if not adequate, for you to get offers from MC or TOP 10.
in a word, in my eyes, as a foreign student and also a legal practitioner in another jurisdiction, BA from OXFORD is better than JD/LL.B, providing that u can undertake the programme.
In China, few common people hear of Columbia Uni, but almost all the people know OXFORD.
PS, one of my friends had the LL.M offer from Columbia Uni, and when he told his parents that he would go there to do his master degree, his mother asked him why he wanted to go the place of drugs dealing and fortune soldiers
do not blame his mother,she even does not know the university of Columbia .
If you feel there's not much in it between how good Oxford is for Law and how good UCL is for Law, then go to the one which has the most attractive course in general (bearing in my mind that you may not get to do the Columbia course). Also bear in mind location, where do you think you'd most easily feel at home? Maybe there's someone on here who has or knows someone who has turned down Oxford for UCL, or is it unheard of?
If I were you I would take the Oxford place.
Only two students per year are able to take up the JD/LLB programme at UCL- so you will have to be 100% confident of getting good marks in the LLB, secondly and unfortunately: far more importantly this programme will cost you a vast sum of money, no matter how good you are. US law schools cost around $56,000 a year- which you will have to guarantee to get a visa (including accommodation and health insurance)- with the UCL programme you are paying the Columbia fees not the UCL fees in your third and fourth years- a serious financial undertaking. As mentioned on the UCL website “It should be stressed that transferring to the LLB/JD will have major financial implications for the students concerned.” Financial aid at US Ivy League law schools is not generous- they expect significant parental contributions and loans (far beyond that which the average English student would consider practical), the University Financial aid is not merit based (to get such aid you have to be prepared to go to lower tier schools).
If the US really excites you it is possible to take a 2 year JD after an Oxford or Cambridge BA Law/Juris at HLS, alternatively there are numerous LLM programmes in the US which take on English law graduates, and from the experience of my friends it is relatively easy to gain access to an LLM at say Penn, Cornell, or Columbia with an Oxbridge undergraduate.
Incidentally, you do not need to have a US ABA approved JD to take the New York Bar exam.
PDJM,
Christ Church, Oxford,
Only two students per year are able to take up the JD/LLB programme at UCL- so you will have to be 100% confident of getting good marks in the LLB, secondly and unfortunately: far more importantly this programme will cost you a vast sum of money, no matter how good you are. US law schools cost around $56,000 a year- which you will have to guarantee to get a visa (including accommodation and health insurance)- with the UCL programme you are paying the Columbia fees not the UCL fees in your third and fourth years- a serious financial undertaking. As mentioned on the UCL website “It should be stressed that transferring to the LLB/JD will have major financial implications for the students concerned.” Financial aid at US Ivy League law schools is not generous- they expect significant parental contributions and loans (far beyond that which the average English student would consider practical), the University Financial aid is not merit based (to get such aid you have to be prepared to go to lower tier schools).
If the US really excites you it is possible to take a 2 year JD after an Oxford or Cambridge BA Law/Juris at HLS, alternatively there are numerous LLM programmes in the US which take on English law graduates, and from the experience of my friends it is relatively easy to gain access to an LLM at say Penn, Cornell, or Columbia with an Oxbridge undergraduate.
Incidentally, you do not need to have a US ABA approved JD to take the New York Bar exam.
PDJM,
Christ Church, Oxford,
To be perfectly honest, Oxford and UCL both offer Law programmes that are virtually unmatched in this country and are among the best in the world. Although Oxford does have that reputation UCL is certainly nearly as prestigious and will be equally favoured when it comes to getting a job. As for the LLB/JD thing, as somebody else has pointed out they only take like two people a year so the chances of getting on it are quite slim. Not to mention it costs a lot of money.
I guess in the end it does come down to where abouts you want to live. With Oxford you get all of the lovely old buildings, relatively cheap prices, lots of shops and restaurants and guaranteed accommodation in all three years. However, I hear that nightlife and entertainment is slightly lacking and there can be quite a stuffy atmosphere. London on the other hand has perhaps the greatest nightlife in the world, has virtually every shop and restaurant you can think of and has lots and lots of museums and art galleries. However, the cost is a serious drawback.
But yeah, I'm sure you knew all that anyway. Go where you feel more comfortable.
I guess in the end it does come down to where abouts you want to live. With Oxford you get all of the lovely old buildings, relatively cheap prices, lots of shops and restaurants and guaranteed accommodation in all three years. However, I hear that nightlife and entertainment is slightly lacking and there can be quite a stuffy atmosphere. London on the other hand has perhaps the greatest nightlife in the world, has virtually every shop and restaurant you can think of and has lots and lots of museums and art galleries. However, the cost is a serious drawback.
But yeah, I'm sure you knew all that anyway. Go where you feel more comfortable.
Right im actually studying law at UCL and let me say this.
The course here and at Oxf are in many aspects quite similar. So dont about worry that.
Prestige- wise, honestly Oxf is better. Much. Your Career prospects wil undoubtedly be better at oxf.
However, what UCL has over oxf is our life-style. We have a great cosmopolitan life over here and we work a heck of a lot less than oxf. WE use that time to go ice skating at somerset house, theatre, clubbing in leicester sq, dinner at China Town, walking in hyde park, shpping at regent street, coffee along the thames.. the list of things to do is endless.
Also theres the ppl u meet, from SOAS, KCL, IMP, RH, RAA, LSE etc, every day theres a chance to meet some great ppl, i met one of my friends for the first time randomly waiting for a bus after drinking one night. You will always find friends here since there are so many ppl to choose from.
Put it this way, i dont like to work too hard, and even surviving here at UCL meansi have to work a little hard. so if i had wanted a balanced social life, which i do, UCL was the right place for me as it has everthing i need and time to do it.
IF you want the TOP law degree in the UK next to Cam, goto Oxf simple. UCL is not better, and is not even that close compared, though it is still excellent and one of the next institutions behind oxbridge for law. Be prepared to work as i know of ppl there doing, they churn out essays like no tmrrw and cant afford to be behind.
Here at UCL , things are very casual. If u want an EVEN easier life... goto KCL, academically not as good for law. even their students will admit it ( i have a lot of kcl friends) but atleast they get a heck of lot more time to party.. there are def times when i have regretted not going there, those times tend to be before an essay deadline on a monday morning lol
The course here and at Oxf are in many aspects quite similar. So dont about worry that.
Prestige- wise, honestly Oxf is better. Much. Your Career prospects wil undoubtedly be better at oxf.
However, what UCL has over oxf is our life-style. We have a great cosmopolitan life over here and we work a heck of a lot less than oxf. WE use that time to go ice skating at somerset house, theatre, clubbing in leicester sq, dinner at China Town, walking in hyde park, shpping at regent street, coffee along the thames.. the list of things to do is endless.
Also theres the ppl u meet, from SOAS, KCL, IMP, RH, RAA, LSE etc, every day theres a chance to meet some great ppl, i met one of my friends for the first time randomly waiting for a bus after drinking one night. You will always find friends here since there are so many ppl to choose from.
Put it this way, i dont like to work too hard, and even surviving here at UCL meansi have to work a little hard. so if i had wanted a balanced social life, which i do, UCL was the right place for me as it has everthing i need and time to do it.
IF you want the TOP law degree in the UK next to Cam, goto Oxf simple. UCL is not better, and is not even that close compared, though it is still excellent and one of the next institutions behind oxbridge for law. Be prepared to work as i know of ppl there doing, they churn out essays like no tmrrw and cant afford to be behind.
Here at UCL , things are very casual. If u want an EVEN easier life... goto KCL, academically not as good for law. even their students will admit it ( i have a lot of kcl friends) but atleast they get a heck of lot more time to party.. there are def times when i have regretted not going there, those times tend to be before an essay deadline on a monday morning lol
While your all talking about law degree prestige you'll find that the best Barristers chambers dont take into account where your degree comes from, Two Garden Court for example are the leading human rights & defence chambers and dont care where your degree came from. Go where you feel most comfortable not just for prestige as in the end uni is as much about having a good time as getting a good uni name with your degree.
Wings_cp
UCL is not better, and is not even that close compared, though it is still excellent and one of the next institutions behind oxbridge for law.
UCL is not better, and is not even that close compared, though it is still excellent and one of the next institutions behind oxbridge for law.
REALLY? Not even close?
im sorry but who the hell told u that.
thats simply wrong. yes u can get into a good chambers without having gone to a strong institution but its mainly due to having internal connections or having a good reason why u couldnt get into a better uni.
Do u think chambers hire for fun? or more likely do u think they hire from where-ever the best calibre of graduates come from - ie. the top institutions. (which are the best because, inter alia, they tend to accept only high quality students).
It would be illogical for them not to have a high proportion of new ppl from the top uni's since thats where the top legal minds are housed.
thats simply wrong. yes u can get into a good chambers without having gone to a strong institution but its mainly due to having internal connections or having a good reason why u couldnt get into a better uni.
Do u think chambers hire for fun? or more likely do u think they hire from where-ever the best calibre of graduates come from - ie. the top institutions. (which are the best because, inter alia, they tend to accept only high quality students).
It would be illogical for them not to have a high proportion of new ppl from the top uni's since thats where the top legal minds are housed.
The head of one of the largest chambers in the Uk told me that. I'm going from work experience at said chambers and speaking to the head of chambers. and it isnt actually either of those, in some cases yes but the difference between ucl and oxford is small. i'll referr you to the pupillage page if you want evidence,
"Selection Criteria
Our criteria for selecting pupils will be as follows:
1 Whilst we do not consider that the class of degree obtained by an applicant is necessarily a good indicator of their potential as a barrister, particularly in the case of older applicants and those who have taken unconventional routes, excellent academic records will be given due weight. The institution from which an applicant has obtained his or her degree is not relevant. "
http://www.2gardenct.law.co.uk/index.php/2gt/home
http://www.2gardenct.law.co.uk/index.php/2gt/pupillage/applications
"Selection Criteria
Our criteria for selecting pupils will be as follows:
1 Whilst we do not consider that the class of degree obtained by an applicant is necessarily a good indicator of their potential as a barrister, particularly in the case of older applicants and those who have taken unconventional routes, excellent academic records will be given due weight. The institution from which an applicant has obtained his or her degree is not relevant. "
http://www.2gardenct.law.co.uk/index.php/2gt/home
http://www.2gardenct.law.co.uk/index.php/2gt/pupillage/applications
"you'll find that the best Barristers chambers dont take into account where your degree comes from"
You couldn't be more wrong. If anything chambers are more concerned about where you studied than law firms.
To the OP, go for Oxford. The London lifestyle - whilst a huge factor to take into account - will still be there after you graduate. The kudos and prestige that goes with a Law degree from Christ Church will stand you in good stead for a long long time.
You couldn't be more wrong. If anything chambers are more concerned about where you studied than law firms.
To the OP, go for Oxford. The London lifestyle - whilst a huge factor to take into account - will still be there after you graduate. The kudos and prestige that goes with a Law degree from Christ Church will stand you in good stead for a long long time.
chalks
"you'll find that the best Barristers chambers dont take into account where your degree comes from"
You couldn't be more wrong. If anything chambers are more concerned about where you studied than law firms.
To the OP, go for Oxford. The London lifestyle - whilst a huge factor to take into account - will still be there after you graduate. The kudos and prestige that goes with a Law degree from Christ Church will stand you in good stead for a long long time.
You couldn't be more wrong. If anything chambers are more concerned about where you studied than law firms.
To the OP, go for Oxford. The London lifestyle - whilst a huge factor to take into account - will still be there after you graduate. The kudos and prestige that goes with a Law degree from Christ Church will stand you in good stead for a long long time.
He Speaks The Truth
chalks
"you'll find that the best Barristers chambers dont take into account where your degree comes from"
You couldn't be more wrong. If anything chambers are more concerned about where you studied than law firms.
To the OP, go for Oxford. The London lifestyle - whilst a huge factor to take into account - will still be there after you graduate. The kudos and prestige that goes with a Law degree from Christ Church will stand you in good stead for a long long time.
You couldn't be more wrong. If anything chambers are more concerned about where you studied than law firms.
To the OP, go for Oxford. The London lifestyle - whilst a huge factor to take into account - will still be there after you graduate. The kudos and prestige that goes with a Law degree from Christ Church will stand you in good stead for a long long time.
I disagree, for the evidence set infront of you lies in diametric opposition to your point.
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