Realistically, is Vet Med. worth it?
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Original post by ch0c0h01ic
The average is about £24k per package (ie; salary AND any potential benefits). At the high end you're looking at around £35k (very rare/exceptional circumstances) down to £15k-ish.
The average is about £24k per package (ie; salary AND any potential benefits). At the high end you're looking at around £35k (very rare/exceptional circumstances) down to £15k-ish.
Do you mean starting salary or the final salary?
Original post by Beccy99
Do you mean starting salary or the final salary?
Salary simply takes into account the gross amount of money that you are paid however it does not take into account other benefits that your practice may offer (eg; accommodation, company car, utilities paid, free subscriptions, CPD, VDS cover, health insurance, etc). On the other hand packages take into account salary AND benefits.
A higher salary may look good on paper but you may be actually have less disposable income compared to a good package
Focus on the overall value of the package, NOT just the salary.EDIT: Yes my earlier post was referring to starting salary however if you look at the SPVS pay survey, beyond year one they aren't that impressive.
(edited 12 years ago)
Original post by ch0c0h01ic
Check out http://www.spvs.org.uk/, they do an annual pay survey.
The average is about £24k per package (ie; salary AND any potential benefits). At the high end you're looking at around £35k (very rare/exceptional circumstances) down to £15k-ish.
It's important to look at the context ("I'm not going to lie, pretty good wages ... was quite high up on my list of reasons for wanting to become involved in the career.") and be realistic, veterinary science is not well paid. If you're capable of being a vet and money is high on your list of your priorities you should probably be looking elsewhere.
The average is about £24k per package (ie; salary AND any potential benefits). At the high end you're looking at around £35k (very rare/exceptional circumstances) down to £15k-ish.
It's important to look at the context ("I'm not going to lie, pretty good wages ... was quite high up on my list of reasons for wanting to become involved in the career.") and be realistic, veterinary science is not well paid. If you're capable of being a vet and money is high on your list of your priorities you should probably be looking elsewhere.
Yes, but the conversation moved on, and, as you can see, I wasn't actually replying to the thread starter.
I hate it when people assume that just because we're doing vet med we are automatically going to end up earning an amazing wage all through our lives. My (non-vet) friends are all convinced we're going to be on salaries of £70,000+ no matter how many times I try and tell them that we are not, and for the most part probably never will be as well paid as doctors and dentists.
I'll add my own story, which is not intended to turn this into a thread full of disillusioned vets.
I qualified in summer 2009 and worked in 2 mixed practices in Northern Ireland and West of Scotland.
I do not think I was unlucky with my jobs: I had bosses who were on the whole, ok; Lunch was missed only occasionally (more often in the spring) the remuneration was good - 25K + accommodation (which I think is around average for starting. It does vary though and of my friends, the worst starting salary was 17k + accom, best was 32k, no accom)
However, things that Ponyvet mentioned take their toll and I also found myself pretty dissatisfied with the life I was having.
Days are long -average of 10 hours or more- and tiring - both mentally and physically (large animal particularly). On call can be awful- working over the weekend and through to Monday evening is 70 hours straight with no guarantee of any meaningful sleep. Driving then becomes dangerous etc, you make clinical errors due to fatigue, your people skills are tested to the max when tired and irritable. You are asked to bend over backwards for clients and they don't thank you for it because they've never known any different.
You come home from work knackered and starving. You sit in front of the TV, have dinner, a beer (unless you're on call) and then go to bed so that you stand any chance of waking up in the morning ready to start again. Even weekends that you're not working you are so tired that going out with friends is an effort. Social life definitely suffers.
The "every day is different" cliche is a untrue, from my experience. I find the job quite repetitive. Occasionally an interesting case comes along, but they are often referred (if insured) or euthanized (on cost grounds)
Clients don't listen properly to your advice or, worse, completely ignore it. They complain about the costs so often that any good feeling from a job well done is often extinguished by a comment about how "with the prices you charge no wonder you are so well paid".
Having said all this, you get lots of vets who love their job. You can do as much work experience and EMS as you like but at the end of the day, you won't know if its for you until you actually do the job. Which is unfortunate because its a lot of time, money, and effort to invest to realise 12 months later it's not for you.
I am currently looking to move from clinical practice into lab/research/academia. My degree won't be completely useless, but if I could have my time back I would not study veterinary medicine.
I qualified in summer 2009 and worked in 2 mixed practices in Northern Ireland and West of Scotland.
I do not think I was unlucky with my jobs: I had bosses who were on the whole, ok; Lunch was missed only occasionally (more often in the spring) the remuneration was good - 25K + accommodation (which I think is around average for starting. It does vary though and of my friends, the worst starting salary was 17k + accom, best was 32k, no accom)
However, things that Ponyvet mentioned take their toll and I also found myself pretty dissatisfied with the life I was having.
Days are long -average of 10 hours or more- and tiring - both mentally and physically (large animal particularly). On call can be awful- working over the weekend and through to Monday evening is 70 hours straight with no guarantee of any meaningful sleep. Driving then becomes dangerous etc, you make clinical errors due to fatigue, your people skills are tested to the max when tired and irritable. You are asked to bend over backwards for clients and they don't thank you for it because they've never known any different.
You come home from work knackered and starving. You sit in front of the TV, have dinner, a beer (unless you're on call) and then go to bed so that you stand any chance of waking up in the morning ready to start again. Even weekends that you're not working you are so tired that going out with friends is an effort. Social life definitely suffers.
The "every day is different" cliche is a untrue, from my experience. I find the job quite repetitive. Occasionally an interesting case comes along, but they are often referred (if insured) or euthanized (on cost grounds)
Clients don't listen properly to your advice or, worse, completely ignore it. They complain about the costs so often that any good feeling from a job well done is often extinguished by a comment about how "with the prices you charge no wonder you are so well paid".
Having said all this, you get lots of vets who love their job. You can do as much work experience and EMS as you like but at the end of the day, you won't know if its for you until you actually do the job. Which is unfortunate because its a lot of time, money, and effort to invest to realise 12 months later it's not for you.
I am currently looking to move from clinical practice into lab/research/academia. My degree won't be completely useless, but if I could have my time back I would not study veterinary medicine.
Original post by ponyvet
I now have a 9-5 job in an academic/research establishment. I still do some clinical work but I'm 70% office based. The job is nice but the salary is less than practice (a bit of an issue) so I do bits and pieces in my own time to keep my hand in with the clinical stuff as well as earning extra cash. On the whole the move has resulted in a better quality of life.
Out of interest, what was your 1st degree in? And did you feel your first degree helped you get into this job more than your veterinary degree?
I did my Vet as undergrad and now am looking at some MRes courses to get into lab/research
Original post by voodooshaman
Out of interest, what was your 1st degree in? And did you feel your first degree helped you get into this job more than your veterinary degree?
I did my Vet as undergrad and now am looking at some MRes courses to get into lab/research
I did my Vet as undergrad and now am looking at some MRes courses to get into lab/research
Hey,
Your previous post was an excellent summary of vet life - in a nutshell I too spent my whole time being knackered, whether it was in the evenings, blurrey eyed days after a night/weekend on call, or catching up on sleep, being grumpy and rushing about trying to get my jobs done on the weekend! Don't know about you, but what really got my back up was when people knew I was a vet. In my spare time (when I really wanted to be a normal person and detach from work) I would get endless requests to see pets of distant acquaintences or random questions and have to listen to pet stories... racing pigeons, dog from 20yrs ago, have you watched (insert any film with an animal)? . It gets far too much... to the extent that I don't tell people I'm a vet any more. Sad, but it's the only way to stay sane. I do however have a deal - I will only help anyone who will help me in my spare time.
As for my job, I think it was my prior experience in biosecurity and infectious diseases that got ne the job, although I think being a scientist helped too. My first degree was in Animal Sci (from Nottingham) which was a very broad and sound basis to do anything. I thought it was such a drag when I did but it has given me a good scientific training - better than vet school.
PM me if you want to hear a bit more about what I do, I work in a great place!
Original post by voodooshaman
Out of interest, what was your 1st degree in? And did you feel your first degree helped you get into this job more than your veterinary degree?
I did my Vet as undergrad and now am looking at some MRes courses to get into lab/research
I did my Vet as undergrad and now am looking at some MRes courses to get into lab/research
Original post by ponyvet
Hey,
Your previous post was an excellent summary of vet life - in a nutshell I too spent my whole time being knackered, whether it was in the evenings, blurrey eyed days after a night/weekend on call, or catching up on sleep, being grumpy and rushing about trying to get my jobs done on the weekend! Don't know about you, but what really got my back up was when people knew I was a vet. In my spare time (when I really wanted to be a normal person and detach from work) I would get endless requests to see pets of distant acquaintences or random questions and have to listen to pet stories... racing pigeons, dog from 20yrs ago, have you watched (insert any film with an animal)? . It gets far too much... to the extent that I don't tell people I'm a vet any more. Sad, but it's the only way to stay sane. I do however have a deal - I will only help anyone who will help me in my spare time.
As for my job, I think it was my prior experience in biosecurity and infectious diseases that got ne the job, although I think being a scientist helped too. My first degree was in Animal Sci (from Nottingham) which was a very broad and sound basis to do anything. I thought it was such a drag when I did but it has given me a good scientific training - better than vet school.
PM me if you want to hear a bit more about what I do, I work in a great place!
Your previous post was an excellent summary of vet life - in a nutshell I too spent my whole time being knackered, whether it was in the evenings, blurrey eyed days after a night/weekend on call, or catching up on sleep, being grumpy and rushing about trying to get my jobs done on the weekend! Don't know about you, but what really got my back up was when people knew I was a vet. In my spare time (when I really wanted to be a normal person and detach from work) I would get endless requests to see pets of distant acquaintences or random questions and have to listen to pet stories... racing pigeons, dog from 20yrs ago, have you watched (insert any film with an animal)? . It gets far too much... to the extent that I don't tell people I'm a vet any more. Sad, but it's the only way to stay sane. I do however have a deal - I will only help anyone who will help me in my spare time.
As for my job, I think it was my prior experience in biosecurity and infectious diseases that got ne the job, although I think being a scientist helped too. My first degree was in Animal Sci (from Nottingham) which was a very broad and sound basis to do anything. I thought it was such a drag when I did but it has given me a good scientific training - better than vet school.
PM me if you want to hear a bit more about what I do, I work in a great place!
Just to bring a bit of balance into the thread: I am going in the opposite direction
I have a degree in Animal Science and with that I got a job in clinical R&D! I work for an American pharmaceutical company, human meds: surgical products, vaccines etc. (At the moment I only work part-time and even then it's a squeeze to fit in uni, work and family life - I am a mature student). I earn a good wage, if I was working full time I would probably earn more than I will as a qualified vet. But TBH I am fed up of the corporate BS, the ethics (not of the products but how employees are treated) and just the general atmosphere. If someone is sick that's a good thing because we can sell them something 
So basically I decided after 10yrs in pharma to give vetmed a go - I always wanted to be a vet but didn't get the grades and so studied Animal Science instead - the usual story! Uni is really tough, there is an unbelievable amount to learn and my practical skills are not exactly brilliant (hard to teach an old dog new tricks
) but I have to say, even after weeks on clinical rotation with day and night shifts meaning that we have regularly been "on duty" for 36hrs straight, that I really enjoy it and I really feel that I am finally doing something worthwhile (not all the time, of course, but quite a lot!). I am not regretting it so far. Of course you guys have actually been real vets out in the field so have a much more realistic view than I do. Over the years at vet school we (my friends and I) have all gone through phases of not knowing whether we're doing the right thing, but in the end I have been on the other side for long enough and I really don't want an office job anymore!I am hoping to go into farm animal practice, it interests me the most (based on my Ani Science degree) and of course it helps that the best job prospects are in this area. I already have a husband and kids so I don't have to go out every weekend to have a social life
And combining vet school with work and the kids means that I am used to being permanently knackered - my last decent night's sleep was 9 yrs ago 
It will be tough but I hope it will work out OK - worst case scenario I will always have 10yrs experience in research to fall back on (or even work part-time - my boss has already offered me this option).I wish you both all the luck in the world in finding a job that suits you
Original post by voodooshaman
I'll add my own story, which is not intended to turn this into a thread full of disillusioned vets.
I qualified in summer 2009 and worked in 2 mixed practices in Northern Ireland and West of Scotland.
I do not think I was unlucky with my jobs: I had bosses who were on the whole, ok; Lunch was missed only occasionally (more often in the spring) the remuneration was good - 25K + accommodation (which I think is around average for starting. It does vary though and of my friends, the worst starting salary was 17k + accom, best was 32k, no accom)
However, things that Ponyvet mentioned take their toll and I also found myself pretty dissatisfied with the life I was having.
Days are long -average of 10 hours or more- and tiring - both mentally and physically (large animal particularly). On call can be awful- working over the weekend and through to Monday evening is 70 hours straight with no guarantee of any meaningful sleep. Driving then becomes dangerous etc, you make clinical errors due to fatigue, your people skills are tested to the max when tired and irritable. You are asked to bend over backwards for clients and they don't thank you for it because they've never known any different.
You come home from work knackered and starving. You sit in front of the TV, have dinner, a beer (unless you're on call) and then go to bed so that you stand any chance of waking up in the morning ready to start again. Even weekends that you're not working you are so tired that going out with friends is an effort. Social life definitely suffers.
The "every day is different" cliche is a untrue, from my experience. I find the job quite repetitive. Occasionally an interesting case comes along, but they are often referred (if insured) or euthanized (on cost grounds)
Clients don't listen properly to your advice or, worse, completely ignore it. They complain about the costs so often that any good feeling from a job well done is often extinguished by a comment about how "with the prices you charge no wonder you are so well paid".
Having said all this, you get lots of vets who love their job. You can do as much work experience and EMS as you like but at the end of the day, you won't know if its for you until you actually do the job. Which is unfortunate because its a lot of time, money, and effort to invest to realise 12 months later it's not for you.
I am currently looking to move from clinical practice into lab/research/academia. My degree won't be completely useless, but if I could have my time back I would not study veterinary medicine.
I qualified in summer 2009 and worked in 2 mixed practices in Northern Ireland and West of Scotland.
I do not think I was unlucky with my jobs: I had bosses who were on the whole, ok; Lunch was missed only occasionally (more often in the spring) the remuneration was good - 25K + accommodation (which I think is around average for starting. It does vary though and of my friends, the worst starting salary was 17k + accom, best was 32k, no accom)
However, things that Ponyvet mentioned take their toll and I also found myself pretty dissatisfied with the life I was having.
Days are long -average of 10 hours or more- and tiring - both mentally and physically (large animal particularly). On call can be awful- working over the weekend and through to Monday evening is 70 hours straight with no guarantee of any meaningful sleep. Driving then becomes dangerous etc, you make clinical errors due to fatigue, your people skills are tested to the max when tired and irritable. You are asked to bend over backwards for clients and they don't thank you for it because they've never known any different.
You come home from work knackered and starving. You sit in front of the TV, have dinner, a beer (unless you're on call) and then go to bed so that you stand any chance of waking up in the morning ready to start again. Even weekends that you're not working you are so tired that going out with friends is an effort. Social life definitely suffers.
The "every day is different" cliche is a untrue, from my experience. I find the job quite repetitive. Occasionally an interesting case comes along, but they are often referred (if insured) or euthanized (on cost grounds)
Clients don't listen properly to your advice or, worse, completely ignore it. They complain about the costs so often that any good feeling from a job well done is often extinguished by a comment about how "with the prices you charge no wonder you are so well paid".
Having said all this, you get lots of vets who love their job. You can do as much work experience and EMS as you like but at the end of the day, you won't know if its for you until you actually do the job. Which is unfortunate because its a lot of time, money, and effort to invest to realise 12 months later it's not for you.
I am currently looking to move from clinical practice into lab/research/academia. My degree won't be completely useless, but if I could have my time back I would not study veterinary medicine.
This is a little depressing to read!
I've had lots of work experience and everything, but I suppose "participating" and "conducting" is surely different.... Now I can't help wondering how my life will be when I actually become a vet!Original post by ofssinfoxes
This is a little depressing to read! I've had lots of work experience and everything, but I suppose "participating" and "conducting" is surely different.... Now I can't help wondering how my life will be when I actually become a vet!
I've had lots of work experience and everything, but I suppose "participating" and "conducting" is surely different.... Now I can't help wondering how my life will be when I actually become a vet!Sorry! Really the most important part of my post is saying that you never know how you will find it. Like everything else in life there are no guarantees. I have a couple of friends who really enjoy their job, but I would say the are in the minority. The majority are indifferent/slightly fed up.
Original post by voodooshaman
Sorry! Really the most important part of my post is saying that you never know how you will find it. Like everything else in life there are no guarantees. I have a couple of friends who really enjoy their job, but I would say the are in the minority. The majority are indifferent/slightly fed up.
^
i'm really worried. i've been having doubts about going to uni in the first place because i really can't afford to go even with the grants, etc that are offered to us. now that a couple of you have posted that your job isn't at all satisfying, i really don't know what i should do now.
I think it's really hard to know what you'll make of a job until you're working in that career and atmosphere day in day out. I know some of these posts are a little disheartening but its important to fully research your career choice and in a way appreciate that vetmed isn't all rainbows and butterflies. On the plus side, all of the vets I personally know and have done work experience with love their jobs and really encouraged me to pursue vetmed so hopefully that adds a bit of positivity to this thread
Again, just my two-penneth - however.. the short answer to the question is no. Well, not for me anyway. i qualified 5 years ago and although i've been successful and in some ways I think it's a very good degree to have, if I could go back in time knowing what I know now I would definitely not do it. However I think it depends what you want to get out of the career.
Firstly - if money is a major goal for any of you vet-wannabees - REALLY - it is not good. Will you be comfortable and earning around/higher than average salary in the UK? Yes - but even several years after being qualified you'll likely be on £40-ish K and that will prob be it forever.
Also - I was attracted to the course because it was v competitive to get into and I was good at school - and was told it was so competitive not to bother - which spurred me on. Honestly, if human medicine was as diff to get into from school -0 Id have prob done it - so from that perspective I selected myself for a fall!
Also, do I like animals? Yes. I like to stroke a nice dog and "awww" at a cute puppy. This is very different to going out of your mind with boredom due to having to rpetend every animal is the cutest in the world and mind numbingly inject vacies into their necks or dish out antibiotics to everytyhing or randomly treat it with something just because its what your boss does and the client cant afford to actrually find out whats wrong with the beast.
Human medicine encompasses the science, medicine, diagnostics, treatment, satisfaction of tretaing patients that veterinary medicine has. in addition there are no real financial constrainst - well yes there are on a bigger scale - ie a woman might not be able to have a £30k/year drug for a 1 month benefit in survival - but differet that not being able to perform a blood test in a collapsed animal as the owners are on benefits and can afford 2 and a half pence. The career structure is far far far more structured and you get so much mroe professional and public respect for being a human medic. The salary for the vast majority is much better, even throughout training - and increases exponentially with expereince. There is also far far more evidence for all the tretaments.
This is why I start a graduate-entry medicine course in september. If you love animals genuinely and hate the thought of treating humans - and you dont expect it to be days full of intellectual stimulation - you like hard work for not much reward - and certainly are content with earning a mediocre salary (or have rich parents) then it probably is the career for you. Medicas will tell you this is rubbish. This is because almost all have not expereince any other career so dint appreciate how much better they have it - and also they all have massive misconceptions (as do almost all of the genral public) abotu how much vets earn.
Eek - I fell better and hopefully might save some poor soul a lot of grief and money!
Firstly - if money is a major goal for any of you vet-wannabees - REALLY - it is not good. Will you be comfortable and earning around/higher than average salary in the UK? Yes - but even several years after being qualified you'll likely be on £40-ish K and that will prob be it forever.
Also - I was attracted to the course because it was v competitive to get into and I was good at school - and was told it was so competitive not to bother - which spurred me on. Honestly, if human medicine was as diff to get into from school -0 Id have prob done it - so from that perspective I selected myself for a fall!
Also, do I like animals? Yes. I like to stroke a nice dog and "awww" at a cute puppy. This is very different to going out of your mind with boredom due to having to rpetend every animal is the cutest in the world and mind numbingly inject vacies into their necks or dish out antibiotics to everytyhing or randomly treat it with something just because its what your boss does and the client cant afford to actrually find out whats wrong with the beast.
Human medicine encompasses the science, medicine, diagnostics, treatment, satisfaction of tretaing patients that veterinary medicine has. in addition there are no real financial constrainst - well yes there are on a bigger scale - ie a woman might not be able to have a £30k/year drug for a 1 month benefit in survival - but differet that not being able to perform a blood test in a collapsed animal as the owners are on benefits and can afford 2 and a half pence. The career structure is far far far more structured and you get so much mroe professional and public respect for being a human medic. The salary for the vast majority is much better, even throughout training - and increases exponentially with expereince. There is also far far more evidence for all the tretaments.
This is why I start a graduate-entry medicine course in september. If you love animals genuinely and hate the thought of treating humans - and you dont expect it to be days full of intellectual stimulation - you like hard work for not much reward - and certainly are content with earning a mediocre salary (or have rich parents) then it probably is the career for you. Medicas will tell you this is rubbish. This is because almost all have not expereince any other career so dint appreciate how much better they have it - and also they all have massive misconceptions (as do almost all of the genral public) abotu how much vets earn.
Eek - I fell better and hopefully might save some poor soul a lot of grief and money!
Original post by kalouki10
i thought it sounded decent however as my parents pay all the bills and so on i probably have no clue about how much of that wage i would actually have spare for indulgences 
Though in an ideal world I'd like to earn more, I think it sounds like a nice salary - especially if you can increase if you become partner! I think its just when its compared to a Doctors salary...
It goes a lot further if you aren't living in a big town. As a londoner I would consider it mediocre but if accommodation/car is thrown in then your salary is basically pocket money and again goes a lot further. I think £60k+ is enough to live a comfortable life here, but I'd imagine you'd live in Lancashire very comfortably on £40k for example.
I'm interested to know how hard it is to become a partner?
I'm interested to know how hard it is to become a partner?
I think the point that the vets on here who have been working for several years are trying to stress, is that the salary that a vet receives is considerably low when compared to other similar professions. And is very low considering the number of hours vets put in. Also remember that on a salary of £40,000 you will be paying nearly £11,000 in taxes (for 2011/2012), so you are actually taking home about £29,000 per annum. This is a low salary for the amount of work expected of vets. And that's after several years. I think it’s good to hear the views and opinions of people who have worked as actual vets. It’s good for potential wannabe vets to hear the good and bad side of a profession – they all have them. Going into this field with your eyes-wide open is the best way. And for those of you who say salary isn’t everything – well remember that when you are paying mortgages, living, raising children etc!!!
Original post by MediterraneanX
It goes a lot further if you aren't living in a big town. As a londoner I would consider it mediocre but if accommodation/car is thrown in then your salary is basically pocket money and again goes a lot further. I think £60k+ is enough to live a comfortable life here, but I'd imagine you'd live in Lancashire very comfortably on £40k for example.
I'm interested to know how hard it is to become a partner?
I'm interested to know how hard it is to become a partner?
Dunno where you lot are getting these salary figures from, none of my vet friends are paid this much. I'm 4yrs qualified and on 25k. No house, no car, no CPD allowance, not even royal college fees or professional subscriptions paid for. There's not much change out of this for savings. Rubbish pay considering I work 10hr days, 5 days a week and a 1 in 3 on call rota.
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