Ema Watch

Laika
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#41
Report 12 years ago
#41
(Original post by lazza)
dear, you should really read what i say properly before you start *****ing. my parents HAVE to top up my loan. which means i will then owe them the money instead of a loan company.
God why can't people get this? SOME PARENTS CAN'T AFFORD TO GIVE THEIR KIDS ANY MONEY FOR EDUCATION AT ALL. That is the big difference. Besides EMA is only applicable to sixth form, not Uni so lets leave that (unless you want to ***** about the grant and loan system, in which case I can only look on in awe as people fail to grasp the simple concept of economic inequality.)

and i don't get £30 a week to go towards my university education. I will have my loan. plain and simple.
So ****ing what, no-one gets EMA in Uni and most of us have to get a loan to live off (in fact the only people who don't get a loan are those kids with parents rich enough to pay for their kids entire education), if you're from a deprived background you get a grant as well, not unreasonable, it's not a massive sum.

I will then have to get a job and work more hours than other people getting their grant and using their EMA money they've saved up. so can you explain to me why this is fair?
That's not particularly fair but you're making a number of assumptions which invalidate your point. Firstly you're assuming everyone who gets EMA saves it for Uni, this is not true so we can scrap that point. Secondly you have already acknowledged that your parents are paying towards helping you at Uni, so what's your problem? Some people won't get that help and need the financial assistance.

I know i'm in a fortunate situation that my family earn enough so I do not fall into the EMA bracket.
Yes I think this pretty much covers it.

don't think i don't think EMA isn't a great idea. but it's not there so you can buy CDs and pay for your uni education. it's to allow you to stay on at 6th form or college and further your education. too many people abuse the system and it takes the piss
Well yea that is true, there are problems with the current system.

All I'm hearing to be honest is whining from people who don't get EMA. People keep saying they are 'for the system in principle' but going on to trash everything it stands for and generalise people from poor backgrounds.
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~Bex~
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#42
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#42
(Original post by Laika)
God why can't people get this? SOME PARENTS CAN'T AFFORD TO GIVE THEIR KIDS ANY MONEY FOR EDUCATION AT ALL. That is the big difference. Besides EMA is only applicable to sixth form, not Uni so lets leave that (unless you want to ***** about the grant and loan system, in which case I can only look on in awe as people fail to grasp the simple concept of economic inequality.)


So ****ing what, no-one gets EMA in Uni and most of us have to get a loan to live off (in fact the only people who don't get a loan are those kids with parents rich enough to pay for their kids entire education), if you're from a deprived background you get a grant as well, not unreasonable, it's not a massive sum.


That's not particularly fair but you're making a number of assumptions which invalidate your point. Firstly you're assuming everyone who gets EMA saves it for Uni, this is not true so we can scrap that point. Secondly you have already acknowledged that your parents are paying towards helping you at Uni, so what's your problem? Some people won't get that help and need the financial assistance.


Yes I think this pretty much covers it.


Well yea that is true, there are problems with the current system.

All I'm hearing to be honest is whining from people who don't get EMA. People keep saying they are 'for the system in principle' but going on to trash everything it stands for and generalise people from poor backgrounds.
And don't you think you're generalising people from "better off" backgrounds??? Just because people aren't what you would consider "poor", DOES NOT mean their parents can afford to help them with their education. You have to realise that sometimes parents may be unwilling to help, or they may have other things which their money needs to be spent on - other children for instance, or medical issues
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Laika
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#43
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#43
(Original post by ~Bex~)
And don't you think you're generalising people from "better off" backgrounds??? Just because people aren't what you would consider "poor", DOES NOT mean their parents can afford to help them with their education. You have to realise that sometimes parents may be unwilling to help, or they may have other things which their money needs to be spent on - other children for instance, or medical issues
No I don't think it's a generalisation to say that people earning over £30k a year can afford to put their kids through sixth form. You say some parents may be unwilling to help. This may be true, however I doubt this is the case. If you're earning over 30k you likely had a decent education and live a comfortable middle class lifestyle, I doubt many parents in that position would refuse to put their kids through school just because they are stingy. If you're in a drastic situations (like as you put it 'medical issues' whatever that is supposed to mean), then that should be considered when applying for EMA, but that's an extreme circumstance and thus you can't base an entire welfare system around it.
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~Bex~
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#44
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#44
(Original post by Laika)
No I don't think it's a generalisation to say that people earning over £30k a year can afford to put their kids through sixth form. You say some parents may be unwilling to help. This may be true, however I doubt this is the case. If you're earning over 30k you likely had a decent education and live a comfortable middle class lifestyle, I doubt many parents in that position would refuse to put their kids through school just because they are stingy. If you're in a drastic situations (like as you put it 'medical issues' whatever that is supposed to mean), then that should be considered when applying for EMA, but that's an extreme circumstance and thus you can't base an entire welfare system around it.

You'd be surprised how many parents are unwilling to help. I already said this earlier, but as you obviously ignored it because you couldn't argue against it, I'll say it again. My parents have already put three children through university at great expense, how is it fair that they should have to do it again? The cost does build up.
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Wilko_777
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#45
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#45
My parents refuse to give me any money. They could barely afford for me to go on a compulsory school trip; the school had to intervene and negotiate a payment scheme with them. My parents can also barely afford to spend the £135-200 required to purchase the bus pass i need. I did have a job, but my employer was taking the piss by giving me crap hours at inconvenient times as I had no fixed hours contract.

To whoever said that people in a 30k + home enjoy a 'middle-class' lifestyle, that is crap. I can understand it being 'middle-class' if the parents have sent their kids to a private school.
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Laika
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#46
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#46
(Original post by ~Bex~)
You'd be surprised how many parents are unwilling to help. I already said this earlier, but as you obviously ignored it because you couldn't argue against it, I'll say it again. My parents have already put three children through university at great expense, how is it fair that they should have to do it again? The cost does build up.
Come on, stop feeding me this rubbish. It does suck that your parents had to put so many kids through Uni. But how can you say they're unwilling to help if they've already put your siblings through Uni? Of course they're willing to help...on mutliple occasions in fact! Consider your family lucky that four and soon 5 children have gone to university and got a good education instead of having to go straight into work at 16 like some people do. And that is besides the point anyway - you can get a loan at uni so it's not like you are financially dependant on your parents the same way you are in sixth form making this unimportant to discussion of EMA.

To the above poster, I'm sorry you are in that position, but there is no way the government could means test in such a way to politely ask your parents whether they will be giving you any money. Like someone has already said, family income is the most practical way to go about it. And tbh I find some of these tales of paretns refusing to help their children through college very dubious. Missing a £130 school trip is one thing, but I fail to see why they wouldn't put you through college (which is a pretty modest cost for a family on over 30k a year). Though if that truly is your situation, I'm sorry, that sucks.
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Wilko_777
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#47
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#47
(Original post by Laika)
Missing a £130 school trip is one thing, but I fail to see why they wouldn't put you through college (which is a pretty modest cost for a family on over 30k a year). Though if that truly is your situation, I'm sorry, that sucks.
Was £350, sorry, forgot to mention that.
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lazza
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#48
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#48
(Original post by Laika)
God why can't people get this? SOME PARENTS CAN'T AFFORD TO GIVE THEIR KIDS ANY MONEY FOR EDUCATION AT ALL. That is the big difference. Besides EMA is only applicable to sixth form, not Uni so lets leave that (unless you want to ***** about the grant and loan system, in which case I can only look on in awe as people fail to grasp the simple concept of economic inequality.)
For Christs sake i get it. and yes i know it isn't paid for uni, but if you bother reading instead of getting on everyones back I WAS BLOODY TALKING ABOUT SAVING EMA FOR UNI. not EMA being used for further education


So ****ing what, no-one gets EMA in Uni and most of us have to get a loan to live off (in fact the only people who don't get a loan are those kids with parents rich enough to pay for their kids entire education), if you're from a deprived background you get a grant as well, not unreasonable, it's not a massive sum.
next year the VAST majority of people eligible for a full loan, will be getting an extra £3000. then some unis are also offering extra grants on top of that


That's not particularly fair but you're making a number of assumptions which invalidate your point. Firstly you're assuming everyone who gets EMA saves it for Uni, this is not true so we can scrap that point. Secondly you have already acknowledged that your parents are paying towards helping you at Uni, so what's your problem? Some people won't get that help and need the financial assistance.
oh oh wait a second. what was my original post about again? being annoyed that some people dont use it for 6th form, not about every single bloody person who gets EMA. get your facts right love before you start kicking off. my parents are only assisting me because THE GOVERNMENT says they have to

All I'm hearing to be honest is whining from people who don't get EMA. People keep saying they are 'for the system in principle' but going on to trash everything it stands for and generalise people from poor backgrounds.
You're generalising everyone who's family makes over £30K. In reality it's not necessarily alot of money if you consider living costs, say in london, or just general situations. You keep going on about how it's ok for it to be used for social activities and stuff. well some of us don't get money from home for that. some of us have to work in our spare time, cutting back our homework/coursework time

If you're gonna reply to this. At least read what I'm saying first
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kimzotic
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#49
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#49
ok people, i can totaly see your point that the EMA system isnt fair, but the government cant afford ot give every student £30. However it shoudn't be the case that no-one gets EMA. Yeah ok there are people that spend their money on Cds & things which isnt fair. But then there are people who are in real need of EMA. If I didnt get my £30 I wouldn't be able to go to college. I moved outa home when I was 16 cos of situation with parents, & yes ok I get help from governemt to pay for house, bils & stuff but I use my £30 EMa for living expenses. without this I wouldn't have an education. So think about people like this before you go insulting hte EMa system & complainin that you don't get money. At least you have a house with parents, who give you money & things
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Laika
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#50
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#50
(Original post by lazza)
For Christs sake i get it. and yes i know it isn't paid for uni, but if you bother reading instead of getting on everyones back I WAS BLOODY TALKING ABOUT SAVING EMA FOR UNI. not EMA being used for further education

next year the VAST majority of people eligible for a full loan, will be getting an extra £3000. then some unis are also offering extra grants on top of that

oh oh wait a second. what was my original post about again? being annoyed that some people dont use it for 6th form, not about every single bloody person who gets EMA. get your facts right love before you start kicking off. my parents are only assisting me because THE GOVERNMENT says they have to

You're generalising everyone who's family makes over £30K. In reality it's not necessarily alot of money if you consider living costs, say in london, or just general situations. You keep going on about how it's ok for it to be used for social activities and stuff. well some of us don't get money from home for that. some of us have to work in our spare time, cutting back our homework/coursework time

If you're gonna reply to this. At least read what I'm saying first
Ok you seem to be a bit flustered, I'm sorry if I antagonised you, 5 pages of arguing in the other thread will do that to you

Firstly, I'm not familiar with the new loan situation, wow £3000 is a lot for a grant. I got £1000 but you'll be pleased to know I'll be in around £12,000 of debt as well when I've finished. I would say that many people getting EMA use it primarily for sixth form. £30 isn't so much when you consider bus passes and lunch for the week and if you include any expensive trips then that would sap alotm of the money you had saved up. If some people manage to save some for Uni though, that's just a by-product of differing demands of each college (or someone getting more money than they really need).

I don't think it's a generalisation to say if you're earning 30k you can afford to help your kids out. Obviously you will have a more expensive lifestyle than those on lower incomes. But unless you're living far beyond your means, then paying for your children's education must be a high priority. It's difficult to understand people on over 30k talking about financial hardships when your own parents earn 11k and get by comfortably.
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lazza
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#51
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#51
i personally don't have financial hardships. but i know people who's parents financially struggle, but they are just over the 30K mark. it's them i'm angry for really. i have other friends who get EMA because their parents are retired because they're that rich to have crooked accountants..... and spend it on MAC stuff and getting wasted... that's the system failing. then again i have other friends who do in theory need it, always complain they have no money to buy stuff for art, but use their EMA for going out instead.

basically the new loan situation will be that you only pay back when you can afford it, and eventually it cancels out if you haven't paid it back. there's no pressure on parents to pay for it at all, unless you're in the bracket where parents are forced to replace the money you won't recieve from the loan company/government/whatever. the government will then give £2700 grant, and the uni will top it up with £300. on top of that you can apply for more money from the uni in the form of a bursary or another grant. but only if you're eligible. so someone from a £30K plus background will come out in more debt in general [to parents, loans, etc] at the end of the same degree than someone from an under 30K background, and should in theory be earning the same amount afterwards.
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Wilko_777
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#52
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#52
Although I disagree with EMA in most cases, I do think it benefits soem people. A good friend of mine for example is an only child, and lost both of his parents whilst in year 11, and did really well to manage to get through his GCSEs and head to college for his A levels. He gets a free bus pass from the county council, about £45 a week income support, and then £30 a week EMA most of the time. EMA has really helped him, as it helps him buy immenities,a and although some of it is spent going to the pub he still deserves every penny he gets.

The government can give homeless people who some of which spend their money on drugs, alcohol and cigarettes, but they can't give those who deserve it EMA which annoys me.
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Juno
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#53
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#53
It's a higher loan. You have to pay it back. And although it's a very low interest rate it still has one, so you're paying back more than you borrowed (although in real terms it is the same).

And education benefits society. So people from poorer backgrounds are given extra money so they can then get a better job and pay more taxes etc, thus benefitting the economy. If they're stuck in the trap of parents don't earn much so can't afford university, then they can't earn much and then their kids probably don't and so on.
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IainM
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#54
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#54
The fundamental issue here is the correlation between residual income and the amount of money recieved by the kids. The government has clearly made a poor judgement that parents who earn over £30K give their kids £30 per week. I know plenty of people, including myself, whos parents earn not much over £30K, and yet their parent's dont give them anything. I also know plenty of people whos residual income is <£15K, and yet whos parents give them (or would have given them) £30 per week extra.

Lets not forget also, that EMA does not just affect a-levels, but similar constraints are put on university bursaries and hardship funds. Earning less than £30K can ensure that the majority of your fees are paid for, but earning more than £30K, you are basically on your own. Where I live, in Newcastle, Newcastle University applicants can apply through the partners scheme. Eligibility is through EMA or if you have a postcode listed as deprived. The benefits include LOWER ENTRANCE REQUIREMENTS, which I feel is totally wrong. THe best srudents should get into university surely, not just the students to boost up the figures for the university of working class students.

RANT OVER!!!
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IainM
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#55
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#55
Forgot to mention the usage of EMA. As has been said previously, not for one second can anyone honestly say that they spend their whole ema on educational maintenance. I knew someone who got 5 gcses, took 3 a levels, literally sat in lessons doing nothing, and spent the whole year getting ema, and bonuses, and got less than 10% in every exam. It has just became 2 years getting paid to go to school, which is easier than getting a job.
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Laika
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#56
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#56
(Original post by Firebird)
Let's face it, in most other situations, if you can't afford something, you can't have it, like clothes, food, etc. If you can't afford to spend £100 on a pair of shoes, you spend £10. Except education. If you're broke, oh don't worry, we'll take the tax payer's money and give £30 a week to your kid! It's like a prize for being poor.
As for most of what you've said I can't be arsed addressing it all because I've already gone over it a million times in the other thread. But this statement alone goes to show your attitude. So if you can't afford education you shouldn't be able to get one? Jesus christ.

Equal rights!
Yeah right.
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lazza
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#57
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#57
(Original post by Juno)
It's a higher loan. You have to pay it back. And although it's a very low interest rate it still has one, so you're paying back more than you borrowed (although in real terms it is the same).
grants aren't paid back. and the 3/4 loan, well the money is still owed to the parents [some of us don't really want to rely on our parents til we're in our 20s, but we have to, and i'd still feel the need to pay it back]. and if it's not paid back by the time you're whatever age it is, it gets cancelled out anyway.

basically if you're from a lower income background you're allowed independance. higher, and you're forced to rely on your parents generosity. hardly growing up is it?
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Juno
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#58
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#58
You don't pay the grant back, but if you're from a higher earning family you owe the governemtn £1000 less. And officailly you don't need to pay your parent's contribusdtion back, so if you want to that's your own choice.
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~Bex~
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#59
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#59
(Original post by Juno)
You don't pay the grant back, but if you're from a higher earning family you owe the governemtn £1000 less. And officailly you don't need to pay your parent's contribusdtion back, so if you want to that's your own choice.
People from lower income families don't have to take out the extra 1k loan, it's their choice - if they don't want to be in more debt, they don't have to be.
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lazza
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#60
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#60
(Original post by Juno)
You don't pay the grant back, but if you're from a higher earning family you owe the governemtn £1000 less. And officailly you don't need to pay your parent's contribusdtion back, so if you want to that's your own choice.
yeah not officially. but personally i want to be independant from my parents. and i feel rude borrowing money from them as it is [had to borrow the tax rebate i'm owed from work so i could afford to buy software to do my cw on my mac]

if it's a loan and the money is getting paid back, then why can't everyone just have the full loan?
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