Just something i thought of :D Watch

snmichaels
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#41
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#41
What turbo are you running and what sort of boost? Psi please, I don't know what the hell people are talking about when they mention 'bar'.
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Né Stig
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#42
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#42
(Original post by Red Dragon)
I got the car cheap as it needs some work doing to it, cost me just under £2500. Im 21, been driving since 17, only do minimum miles and live in an area with a low crime rating.

I like your facelift 6 btw, my mate has black phase 2 one, and i used to have a 306. Faster then my focus and with great handling, but not quite as good as the focus on the limit.

The previous owner did a 13.85 at 108mph at Santa Pod, so once its mapped properly, should be able to better that

Still incredibly cheap for that sort of money.
Black 306's I think, never came out in P3 guise (not 100% sure, but never seen one), but moonstones only came out in P3 guise.
Do you mean facelift as in p3??

BTW - what was you're 306 that wasn't better than your Focus on the limit?? Even the xsi is pretty nippy and can beat most Focus's.

Liking the 13.85 at Santa Pod as well - damn that's quick. My car can go late 15's at 97mph (I believe). Not been yet - but do have to go
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Red Dragon
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#43
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#43
The SX is running the standard T28 turbo at 0.9 bar (not sure what PSI, sorry). It has HKS pistons and HKS headgasket, apexi S-AFC, Walbro fuel pump, apex boost valve, apex manifold and full de-catted 3' exhaust system. Needs some Nismo 555's and a remap and it'll be running over 300bhp.

(Original post by walshie)
Still incredibly cheap for that sort of money.
Black 306's I think, never came out in P3 guise (not 100% sure, but never seen one), but moonstones only came out in P3 guise.
Do you mean facelift as in p3??

BTW - what was you're 306 that wasn't better than your Focus on the limit?? Even the xsi is pretty nippy and can beat most Focus's.

Liking the 13.85 at Santa Pod as well - damn that's quick. My car can go late 15's at 97mph (I believe). Not been yet - but do have to go
yeah, my mate has a 98 black 6, so phase 2. I have another mate who has a 99 2.0 XSI and I had a ph1 1.6 . I was looking at getting another 306 after the 1.6 (either an XSI or 6) but wanted a change (and couldnt afford grp 15/16 insurance for the 6).

So i got a 2.0 Focus Zetec, which, on the limit handles better than either 306 (admitted by both my mates when going on some B road blasts and in general). Its much better in the wet too, 306 suffers with torsion bar set-up and harder to manage lift-off oversteer. My focus also has traction control, so that helps with lift-off oversteer!

In terms of speed the focus is 0.2 secs slower to 60 than the XSI when timed with GPS device on the same 'private' road (its hindered by its gearbox limiting it to 59mph in 2nd :mad: ). But it hits 100mph 0.3 secs faster then the XSI. The 6 is obviously a lot faster than both.
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snmichaels
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#44
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#44
(Original post by walshie)
My car can go late 15's at 97mph (I believe). Not been yet - but do have to go
I think your car should probably go mid to high 15's, but probably lower trap speed. Unless you spin all the way through 1st and still run a mid 15. 97mph indicates about a high 14, usually, but there are a lot of factors.

I'll have to look up the bar-psi conversion. With that sort of engine work, sounds like you should be running some pretty high boost. How about the intercooler? Those are front mount intercoolers right? Sounds like a pretty mean combo, what's next, turbo upgrade? Don't tell me you're still happy with high 13's .

When I started building my car, 13's where the goal. 13's came and it just felt slow after a while. Got used to it. Had to keep going
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snmichaels
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#45
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#45
Another thing, respect given for keeping it looking stock. I'd hate to see it ruined with some ridiculous, picnic-table-spoiler on the back, and bulldozer-shaped-body kit. Very nice, clean and fast.

It's bordering on "sleeper" territory. I doubt anyone thinks it's that fast when looking at it. I'm sure you've embarrassed quite a few little hot-hatches, and surprised a few Scooby's .
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technik
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#46
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#46
i'll post a pic when i own a car

do however own one of these. great fun and 67 MPH of terror
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Né Stig
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#47
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#47
(Original post by Red Dragon)
So i got a 2.0 Focus Zetec, which, on the limit handles better than either 306 (admitted by both my mates when going on some B road blasts and in general). Its much better in the wet too, 306 suffers with torsion bar set-up and harder to manage lift-off oversteer. My focus also has traction control, so that helps with lift-off oversteer!
I can absolutely asure you there isn't a Focus on the road that can handle better than a 6. Even the standard 306 has the same chassis, and can't normally be beat. The gti6 is predominantly famous for its handling.
Just put "gti6 handling" into Google, and you will know what I mean. The speed of the 6 is not the talking point as its only a 7.2 second car, but the B Road racing is. I did once see a poll that pitted the 6 against a Scooby, Elise, Boxter, 911 and TT. I know the 6 didn't come last. I'll try an post a link if I find it.

(Original post by snmichaels)
Another thing, respect given for keeping it looking stock. I'd hate to see it ruined with some ridiculous, picnic-table-spoiler on the back, and bulldozer-shaped-body kit. Very nice, clean and fast.

It's bordering on "sleeper" territory. I doubt anyone thinks it's that fast when looking at it. I'm sure you've embarrassed quite a few little hot-hatches, and surprised a few Scooby's .
Couldn't agree more. Looks nice. Just don't ruin it bringing bigger rims etc unless they do really really look the part. (were talking £500 a piece).

Any hot hatch driver racing a 200sx is looking for trouble. Those things are never standard.

(Original post by technik)
do however own one of these. great fun and 67 MPH of terror
I bet
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Red Dragon
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#48
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#48
(Original post by walshie)
I can absolutely asure you there isn't a Focus on the road that can handle better than a 6. Even the standard 306 has the same chassis, and can't normally be beat. The gti6 is predominantly famous for its handling.
erm... so is the focus, the 306 was the past master of handling for hatch-backs. The focus moved it on a level, remember i have had both, so know the difference first hand. Independent multilink rear suspension is 21st Century compared to the dark age torsion beam. Also for 80-90% of the time you couldnt pick between them, but on the limit the focus is so much more composed and easier to manage. And in the wet there is absolutely no contest! The focus is renowned for being the best handling hatch, with the ability to embarass much more focussed sports cars.

(Original post by walshie)
Just put "gti6 handling" into Google, and you will know what I mean. The speed of the 6 is not the talking point as its only a 7.2 second car, but the B Road racing is. I did once see a poll that pitted the 6 against a Scooby, Elise, Boxter, 911 and TT. I know the 6 didn't come last. I'll try an post a link if I find it.
I have been on quite a few B road blasts with my 306 owning mates, and on a dry road there is nothing between the XSI and me, in the wet/damp the focus has a slight edge.

here is a pic of the two cars just after we went on a bit of a blast through the countryside.

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Red Dragon
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#49
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#49
(Original post by snmichaels)
I'll have to look up the bar-psi conversion. With that sort of engine work, sounds like you should be running some pretty high boost. How about the intercooler? Those are front mount intercoolers right? Sounds like a pretty mean combo, what's next, turbo upgrade? Don't tell me you're still happy with high 13's .

When I started building my car, 13's where the goal. 13's came and it just felt slow after a while. Got used to it. Had to keep going
the car is only running the standard turbo and standard cooling (WMIC), so the boost cant really be taken over 1.0 bar.

The next stage would be a T28 ball-bearing turbo from an S15 silvia, or Greddy turbo with either an FMIC or uprated WMIC. But I dont have the funds or ability to insure those mods, so new injectors and a remap is as far as its going to go.

Perhaps the addition of an Apexi boost controller would be the only other thing, then i could run at 1/1.1 or even 1.2 bar for short periods (i.e. on the drag strip). The car really needs to be set-up properly, as theres quite a bit of knock, and the fuelling isnt optimum. That will come in due course after the power steering pump and rack are fixed tho.
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jamiec88
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#50
Report Thread starter 12 years ago
#50
Have we diversified slightly? lol i've just bought some clear side repeaters for my car but haven't had the chance (due to recent horrible weather) to take some updated pictures of my car. Will try my best. I've also just treated myself for my 18th birthday (22nd feb) to a front pair of speakers, not incredibly amazing but still better than the original ford 20watts haha. I'm also thinking on buying a new head unit for the car, possibly a pioneer one but my budget is around £120-£130.
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Né Stig
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#51
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#51
(Original post by Red Dragon)
erm... so is the focus, the 306 was the past master of handling for hatch-backs. The focus moved it on a level, remember i have had both, so know the difference first hand. Independent multilink rear suspension is 21st Century compared to the dark age torsion beam. Also for 80-90% of the time you couldnt pick between them, but on the limit the focus is so much more composed and easier to manage. And in the wet there is absolutely no contest! The focus is renowned for being the best handling hatch, with the ability to embarass much more focussed sports cars.

I have been on quite a few B road blasts with my 306 owning mates, and on a dry road there is nothing between the XSI and me, in the wet/damp the focus has a slight edge.
Ok, time to respond to this theory of yours. I am still absolutely 120% sure that a 306 could absolutely eat a Focus around a track, wet or not (both cars having the same tyres obviously). How you can say the Focus has moved on a level is almost laughable considering the Focus was introduced on an S reg plate. Mine is a 2000 V reg and it is still full of rave reviews today. To be honest, I did here once that the Focus was a good handling car, but never in the same league as a 6 or an Xsi, or even a Meridian!!

Regarding you owning both, I can only assume you didn't have a clue how to drive the Pug, as when pushed round a corner on the limit, it can become very daunting and feeling unstable when in fact, its just glued. My mates TT is a prime example of a car that feels safe round a corner until it accidentally slips out or the traction control gets in the way. Its unexpected. The GTi6 will inform you every step of the way.

I have umpteenth reviews, all of which I can email to you. I don't think there is one where the ST170 appears! In fact on all but one I think - the 6 is the clear winner. If the ST170 was that good, do you not think it should have appeared in at least one hot hatch review? Lets face it, the Focus ST170 has the same hp (virtually) and the same size engine with roughy the same weight (even lighter actually).

Again, just providing an argument against your theory, but I'm pretty certain you've got it completely wrong. I have even tested this theory with real enthusiasts who are very unbiased and give an honest review. We only have 10 responses so far, but you may get some for and against:

http://www.306gti6.com/forum/showthr...1620&page=last

Also, I am told the new ST though, is awesome. One of the best handling cars in a long time.
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Carl
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#52
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#52
have you ever considered that different people have different opinions and that car handling is subjective? :rolleyes:
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pghstochaj
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#53
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#53
Asking a bunch of people on a gti6 forum whether their car handles better than another is not the most critical way of doing things

My current car I am working on before deciding whether to keep it during my placement year:


Got plenty of work to get done on it over Easter, can't wait, hate being stuck at uni with cars begging to be worked on. Btw; it's not my house before somebody thinks they know the place and wants to hunt me down
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Né Stig
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#54
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#54
(Original post by Carlton)
have you ever considered that different people have different opinions and that car handling is subjective? :rolleyes:
What a load of boll*cks.
So you're thinking behind maybe a Chevvy going around a corner better than a lotus is subject to a different opinion??
It's not a matter of opinion, it's a fact!
I didn't want to open my mouth until now, but I almost found that laughable. Its not even subject to debate.

(Original post by pghstochaj)
Asking a bunch of people on a gti6 forum whether their car handles better than another is not the most critical way of doing things
Maybe not - but like I said, they're not a bunch of boy racers trying to prove anything. They are extremely realistic.

How about putting it on a Ford website then?? I bet you get more people with a balanced opinion than you would a GTI6 website.
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TomaDamons
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#55
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#55
Its not much, i know. But i have a Ford Ka. Not very exciting but its great to drive and is really really spacious.

Its bright red though :puke:
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Red Dragon
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#56
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#56
(Original post by walshie)
Ok, time to respond to this theory of yours. I am still absolutely 120% sure that a 306 could absolutely eat a Focus around a track, wet or not (both cars having the same tyres obviously). To be honest, I did here once that the Focus was a good handling car, but never in the same league as a 6 or an Xsi, or even a Meridian!!

Regarding you owning both, I can only assume you didn't have a clue how to drive the Pug, as when pushed round a corner on the limit, it can become very daunting and feeling unstable when in fact, its just glued.
I thought this was dead and buried, lol. I used to be a member on 306gti6.com and the people on their are a great bunch.

With regards to my driving ability its suffice to say that I am not a racing driver and neither is my friend, but we are both very competent drivers.

As for your track theory of the focus being eaten, we actually both tracked our cars at Snetterton last year. We also went down with a guy who had a Clio 172 and Mazda Mx-5 1.8, the 172 was fastest with the MX-5 second fastest.

There was nothing in the lap times between the focus and 306 XSI (practically the same power & same weight). I think my mate in the 306 XSI posted the better lap by about 2 tenths of a second and we were both only very slightly off the MX-5's pace. One thing i would say though is that the brakes lasted well on the 306 around a track, we both upgraded our brakes. I have blackdiamond disks with Mintex 1144 pads, he had different disks, but the same pads. I had Goodyear Eagle F1's and he had some sort of Yoko tyres, so we both had good tyres.

I am staring at a copy of evo magazine now that has a full 7 pages dedicated to the Ford Focus and its untimely demise. Stating that it pushed hatchbacks into new territory in terms of handling and driver involvement. It is still renowned as the most enjoyable hatchback to drive with planted handling and great driver feedback. When Topgear reviewed the new Focus, Jeremy Clarkson last testament was to buy an old focus before they ruined it with the new one. As the original was visionary, and the new one ordinary.

With regards to the post on the gti6 forum, I wasn't comparing the focus range to a gti-6! I havent driven a GTI-6, so cant directly compare. I have driven an ST170 though, and wasnt that impressed to be honest. My car has an eibach sportline spring kit, and could have sworn that it probably handled better than the 170. I think Ford skipped the r & d on the 170, and concentrated on using the RS as the brand maker, top of the range hatch. If we are comparing top of the range cars then we would have to compare 6's and Rallyes with the RS, and we know which one of those would win hands down. Also my real argument was that on the 'limit' the manageability of the focus excels that of the 306 for anyone that isnt a racing driver. I also feel that a standard 'family' focus would be a better handling car than a standard 'family' 306.

Suffice to say that whatever the outcome of 306 vs. Focus would be, i'm pretty sure what the outcome of 306 vs. 200SX would be













(sorry for the thread hi-jacking, but I always enjoy a good 'discussion'. I have added some pics so that it has some relevance to the topic at hand)
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OMGWTF
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#57
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#57
That airflow monitor is sweet
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Né Stig
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#58
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#58
(Original post by Red Dragon)
I thought this was dead and buried, lol. I used to be a member on 306gti6.com and the people on their are a great bunch.

As for your track theory of the focus being eaten, we actually both tracked our cars at Snetterton last year. We also went down with a guy who had a Clio 172 and Mazda Mx-5 1.8, the 172 was fastest with the MX-5 second fastest.

With regards to the post on the gti6 forum, I wasn't comparing the focus range to a gti-6! I havent driven a GTI-6, so cant directly compare. I have driven an ST170 though, and wasnt that impressed to be honest. My car has an eibach sportline spring kit, and could have sworn that it probably handled better than the 170. I think Ford skipped the r & d on the 170, and concentrated on using the RS as the brand maker, top of the range hatch. If we are comparing top of the range cars then we would have to compare 6's and Rallyes with the RS, and we know which one of those would win hands down. Also my real argument was that on the 'limit' the manageability of the focus excels that of the 306 for anyone that isnt a racing driver. I also feel that a standard 'family' focus would be a better handling car than a standard 'family' 306.

(sorry for the thread hi-jacking, but I always enjoy a good 'discussion'. I have added some pics so that it has some relevance to the topic at hand)
Cool :cool:
Especially Snetterton; nice to hear you're doing track days as well.
Focus RS is track ready to a T. It would bury much around a track, and I really wouldn't mind one. In fact now gonna check autotrader :laugh:

You're Nissan would absolutely obliterate me at the moment as I've lost 50% power and had trouble beating a 1.4 Polo yesterday!! Wow, I'm gonna sue her sorry ar*e for fuc*ing up my car.

How is a 200 around a track anyway?
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Red Dragon
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#59
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#59
well the 200SX is renowned for its balanced handling, (front engined, rear wheel drive, LSD, 50:50 weight distribution) which is why it so popular for drifting.

I havent tracked it yet, as i havent had it long. Its a lot different to drive than a FF car, takes some getting used to. A whole different style of cornering. At a very tight corner its hard to go that fast, as all the power breaks the traction. Was chasing a CTR down some twisties, overtook him on the straight, but around the very tight stuff he caught up. Im sure once I get accustomed to the handling a bit more, it would leave it for dead, but i was taking it easy, didnt want to stack it into a tree.

For cornering you use the throttle as much as the steering wheel, whereas in a FF car you bury the throttle until you feel a hint of understeer which is relatively safe and easy to deal with compared to throttle induced oversteer on an FR car.

What up with your car, how comes its lost power? My mate has problems with his 306 all the time, his air-con compressor went last week. £400 to replace. Had my Focus 2 years and not a single problem with it in all that time (touch wood)
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