People tend to mix it up with a State and think it has more meaning than it does. I inadvertently got into a debate with someone who thought that country means a lot more than it does and I could not, for the life of me, get across that his reasons for not calling Wales a country were things I'd agree with if someone said Wales was a State. It took about 2 hours for him to realise I was using the legal and official language and not mere semantics...
Is Wales officially described as a country anywhere? Is it in any acts of Parliament or anything like that? I always thought there is no "official" term for the different parts of the UK, and they're just referred to by name instead.
Yeah, the word country in place of sovereign state is a little overused nowadays. Many regions around the world can fit the dictionary definition of a country, like Catalonia or Basque Country.
So what's the definition of a country in your opinion?
Let's not forget that the Acts of Union dissolved these two predecessor states 'for ever'. Any new states which emerged from the UK would be just that - new. These Acts are no longer all that legally significant - they apply only in heavily amended form and 'subject to' other Acts of Parliament such as the Scotland Act.
Some SNP types have talked about repealing the Acts of Union as a rhetorical description of Scottish independence. From a slightly dull legal perspective, however, that's not really accurate. We could repeal the Acts of Union entirely tomorrow: it wouldn't magically make Scotland and England reappear as independent states. A slightly similar situation happens quite often: say an Act of Parliament dissolves a public body - that body does not reappear if the dissolving legislation is subsequently repealed.
If Scotland ever was to become independent, it'd all be far more mundane and less antiquated. A fairly brief Act of Parliament, perhaps a little more than 'No Act of the Parliament of the United Kingdom ... shall extend to Scotland as part of its law' (shamelessly transposed from the Canada Act 1982) to tie up loose ends, would go through and that would be that.
But the Scottish Parliament was not a new parliament- it was a resumed session since it had been disbanded in 1707 when it opened again in the '90s.
But the Scottish Parliament was not a new parliament- it was a resumed session since it had been disbanded in 1707 when it opened again in the '90s.
It doesn't have much in common with the old Scottish Parliament though. A different set of powers, MPs presumably voted in using a completely different method. I guess it's probably in the same location as the old one though.
Is Wales officially described as a country anywhere? Is it in any acts of Parliament or anything like that? I always thought there is no "official" term for the different parts of the UK, and they're just referred to by name instead.
It's an international law concept. I also refer you to Page 680 of Private International Law by Cheshire, North and Fawcett which discusses choice of law in relation to countries as beign distinct from States. Ennstone Building products v Stanger [2002] is an application of this principle in relation to the choice of law between Scotland and England using the Rome Convention which is (or was) a Treaty regulating international law between certain States.
Long story short, country is distinct from a State in international law and the UK is a collection of countries.
It's an international law concept. I also refer you to Page 680 of Private International Law by Cheshire, North and Fawcett which discusses choice of law in relation to countries as beign distinct from States. Ennstone Building products v Stanger [2002] is an application of this principle in relation to the choice of law between Scotland and England using the Rome Convention which is (or was) a Treaty regulating international law between certain States.
Long story short, country is distinct from a State in international law and the UK is a collection of countries.
I don't have access to that, could you summarise the definition of a country from it please?
Wikipedia isn't really that reputable for lists - especially given that this got very little media coverage (most people were under the impression it *was* a country for about 20 years before that!)
"A country is defined under the Convention in the normal private international law sense as a territorial unit with its own rules of law..."
The reference is really more relevant to Scotland although Wales does have its own rules of law for some things (admittedly not for private international law which it shares with England) - since you doubted Scotland being a country which, even if you disputed Wales, it certainly is.
Wikipedia isn't really that reputable for lists - especially given that this got very little media coverage (most people were under the impression it *was* a country for about 20 years before that!)
"A country is defined under the Convention in the normal private international law sense as a territorial unit with its own rules of law..."
The reference is really more relevant to Scotland although Wales does have its own rules of law for some things (admittedly not for private international law which it shares with England) - since you doubted Scotland being a country which, even if you disputed Wales, it certainly is.
So would the USA's states count as countries under that definition? They have their own laws. Or is it more specific than that?
I suppose what I'm trying to figure out what it is that all countries have in common that makes them countries, and which they don't also have in common with places that aren't countries.
The wikipedia page for country implies to me that there is no strict set of criteria for what counts as a country. The impression I get from that is that really it's just convention that defines what is and what isn't a country. I.e. Wales is a country because people normally call it a country, and not for any other particular reason. Kind of like how continents are defined. There's no technical reason why Europe is a continent, it's just defined as one by common convention.
Out of curiousity.. why is Scotland wanting independance and not Wales?
Because luckily our (Welsh) assembly aren't moronic. I would never return to Wales if we got full independence as it's quite obvious it would become a mess.
So would the USA's states count as countries under that definition? They have their own laws. Or is it more specific than that?
I suppose what I'm trying to figure out what it is that all countries have in common that makes them countries, and which they don't also have in common with places that aren't countries.
The wikipedia page for country implies to me that there is no strict set of criteria for what counts as a country. The impression I get from that is that really it's just convention that defines what is and what isn't a country. I.e. Wales is a country because people normally call it a country, and not for any other particular reason. Kind of like how continents are defined. There's no technical reason why Europe is a continent, it's just defined as one by common convention.
US States actually do count as countries in PIL, despite what people would think. This is evidenced by the fact you can elect to have Texan Law or Californian Law govern you. (For example, look at the Google terms and conditions. They will tell you that you agree to the exclusive jurisdiction of the Californian Courts. Not the USA courts - the Californian ones)
Countries, from what I know, basically are a distinct area which has some kind of government, own laws and can also have its own culture etc. So, for example:
Bedfordshire is not a country. Its government is Westminster (which governs the whole of England) and it follows law applicable to the whole of England and, in some cases, the whole of the UK. It has no distinct geographic or cultural identity.
Scotland has a Parliament and follows Scottish law in almost all matters (put it this way. If you study law in Scotland, you cannot practice in England without doing a changeover course). It's historically and culturally distinct.
Wales has the National Assembly and follows Welsh law in some respects (such as school curriculums, it used to have Uni subsidies, smoking ban implemented earlier, drugs are free on the NHS, even random things such as tagging of animals and the importation of eels) (I have a relative who works there. They tell me about new laws the Assembly has passed. I have assured them when I become an eel importer in Wales, I will bear all of this in mind ).
In the US, states like Texas have their own law although there is overriding US law, which is enough for private international law.
Of course, one could argue there is no such thing as international law but that's very much beside the point.