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    Israel thinks France believes wrong. If the PA used all their money that they have received by now, they would have a much better lifestyle. But instead, a lot of this money is going on terrorism, like it or not. It's ironic how they complain to be poor but always find money for Quassams and bombs. Israel will not pay money to sponser our own destruction.
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    To Greece: Really? Would you be so kind as to elaborate on that by telling me what Germany's stance is on this topic?
    Yes, Germany currently is amongst the most outspoken EU members against donating money to the PA, believes that Hamas is a terrorist organisation, and that money in tis hands could well be used for terrorism

    BUT - please can we not have an Israel/Palestine discussion here, because everyone has prejudices and no one will stick to character - and this is already taking the form of a very odd UN debate indeed
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    (Original post by Carl)
    I'd rather you didn't twist my words to your own ends Jon, that's not what diplomacy is about and you should know that I believe money used to fund the PA will not be used to fund terrorism.
    I was not twisting your words, you've acknowledge that the money will go to Hamas members, members of a terrorist organisation, but you seem to have blind faith that they will not use it for terrorism. That is an extraordinarily odd position.

    Previously, the French delegate has said:
    (Original post by Carl)
    and that money going to the PA also funds jobs and livelihoods of neutral civil servants and employees, as well as Hamas députés.
    Clearly acknowledging that some of the money will go to what he calls 'Hamas deputes'. Considering that 1/8 of the Hamas members of the PA legislature are currently sitting in Israeli jails for terrorism offences, and others have clear and obvious links to terror attacks (their PM designate escaped an Israeli assassination a couple of years back), plus the fact that they're all MEMBERS OF A TERRORIST ORGANISATION, would demonstrate that the money going to people like that will quite obviously be used, to some degree, for the pursuit of terrorism.

    Micronesia was not 'twisting' France's words, Micronesia was making a simple logical progression that, for its own reasons, France appears to not want to make. France appears to think that giving known terrorists money doesn't mean that that money will fund terrorism. Micronesia simply finds that an absurd argument, both based on the available evidence and common-sense.

    Micronesia again deplores France and Germany for their appalling stances, and further questions the accuracy of the representation by the German delegate, noting that the German leader, Angela Merkel, REFUSED to meet Hamas on a recent visit to the region. Micronesia suggests the German delegate pick a country more suited to his views if he wishes to pursue them in this debate. Hint: I'd start with checking a list of the Arab League countries.
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    (Original post by the Greek Representative)
    Yes, Germany currently is amongst the most outspoken EU members against donating money to the PA, believes that Hamas is a terrorist organisation, and that money in tis hands could well be used for terrorism

    BUT - please can we not have an Israel/Palestine discussion here, because everyone has prejudices and no one will stick to character - and this is already taking the form of a very odd UN debate indeed
    'Without substantial progress in the Middle East Peace Process, all other conflicts in the region cannot, in our opinion – and by this I mean not only the opinion of the Federal Government, but also that of the entire European Council – be resolved. The plan for withdrawal from the Gaza strip and parts of the West Bank has created an opportunity for progress in the peace process, and this opportunity must be seized. Nevertheless, in view of the passing of President Arafat – the Federal Government has expressed its condolences and sympathy to the Palestinian leadership, family members and the entire Palestinian people – it is important to prevent a vacuum of power and that there is an orderly transition to the successors. In the view of the European Council, the plan for withdrawal from the Gaza strip and parts of the West Bank has created an opportunity for progress.
    The positions of the EU and the Quartet in this regard are clear. The withdrawal must not result in a chaotic situation. Instead, it must be an exemplary step towards further progress on the road to the two-state solution specified in the Roadmap. This is crucial, because we – and by this I mean the European Council again – are convinced that this long-standing tragic conflict, which has claimed so many innocent victims on both sides, can only be solved by means of a two-state solution in which Israel and Palestine exist peacefully side by side as democracies. This is the only way to ensure permanently Israel's right to exist in which we have a special interest.
    If one sees things in this way, then it is indeed equally important to get Palestine ready for statehood. The Palestinian Autonomous Territories should not be allowed to develop into a failed state even before they have had the chance to become an independent state. For this reason, it is absolutely essential that security, administrative and economic structures be reformed. Above all, however, elections are crucial. Only they can give the Palestinian government the international legitimacy it requires as a negotiating partner in the peace process.
    For this reason, the European Council has endorsed the programme proposed by High Representative Solana. The programme envisages a wide range of short-term measures for implementation of overdue reforms as well as support for elections in the Palestinian Autonomous Territories. First of all, it is important to support the local elections planned for 23 December 2004. In addition, the passing of President Arafat means that the clock has now begun to tick on a 60-day deadline specified by the constitution. This is also something that must be taken into consideration. The presidential and parliamentary elections must be carried out in accordance with basic Palestinian law.
    At the meeting of the European Council, there was also agreement that all concrete measures taken by the EU must encourage the commencement of real political negotiations between the Palestinian leadership and the government of Israel. We want all concrete measures to be embedded in this broad political perspective. With a view to underpinning a perspective of this type, the Council has decided that Javier Solana will shortly be conducting consultations to this effect with the international community and, above all, with the members of the Quartet.' - Policy statement by Foreign Minister Joschka Fischer in the German Bundestag on the results of the meeting of the European Council, Berlin
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    Angela Merkel, REFUSED to meet Hamas on a recent visit to the region
    Oh, Really?! I wonder how she met President Mahmoud Abbas on the 30th of January?
    http://www.bundesregierung.de/en/art...bas-commit.htm

    Yes, Germany currently is amongst the most outspoken EU members against donating money to the PA, believes that Hamas is a terrorist organisation, and that money in tis hands could well be used for terrorism
    I would also recommend that the Greek Representative read the link above from the German Federal Government page, especially for:
    ''Abbas thanked Merkel for political and economic support given to the Palestinian Authority thus far, observing that this will continue to be needed in the interest of pursuing peace."
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    (Original post by aiman)
    Oh, Really?! I wonder how she met President Mahmoud Abbas on the 30th of January?
    http://www.bundesregierung.de/en/art...bas-commit.htm



    I would also recommend that the Greek Representative read the link above from the German Federal Government page, especially for:
    ''Abbas thanked Merkel for political and economic support given to the Palestinian Authority thus far, observing that this will continue to be needed in the interest of pursuing peace."
    1) Abbas is not Hamas, he is Fatah (that was really ignorant of you)
    2)Currently i.e to Hamas, the article which you chose to use is open to all sorts of interpretations, I see it as fairly neutral, promoting elections but little else (and it predates the Hamas victory by ages)

    http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,...876718,00.html

    http://www.voanews.com/english/2006-01-29-voa29.cfm

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4660648.stm

    some rather more up to date and relevant articles, dont you think?

    also, you still havnt answered my point that this is really not the place for such a discussion
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    (Original post by aiman)
    Oh, Really?! I wonder how she met President Mahmoud Abbas on the 30th of January?
    http://www.bundesregierung.de/en/art...bas-commit.htm
    Abbas is NOT Hamas. She could (and did) meet Abbas without meeting Hamas. Idiot (gonna try and tell me off for inappropriate language?).

    (Original post by aiman)
    I would also recommend that the Greek Representative read the link above from the German Federal Government page, especially for:
    ''Abbas thanked Merkel for political and economic support given to the Palestinian Authority thus far, observing that this will continue to be needed in the interest of pursuing peace."
    So, how exactly does thanking them for PAST support and observing that they will need it in future mean that Germany has a policy of funding the PA when Hamas is in charge? It simply notes PAST events and says what Abbas wants in the future, it commits Germany to NOTHING.

    Motion to replace the German representative, anyone?
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    Syria will not bow to pressure from Zionist cowards unable to debate in the open. If you have a problem with us debate in the open not by making cowardly statements and neg repping. We once again stress that Israel should stop building settlements on Palestinian land and be more careful not to kill innocent civilians during military operations.
    We do give Israel some credit for removing the illegal settlers from Gaza but believe that this should only be the start. Only when Israel has removed all its illegal settlers from Palestinian land in the West Bank and stopped oppressing the indigenous population will there be a basis for peace in the region.
    Also, Syria will not bother responding to the unfounded allegations made against it during this thread. If you cannot back up statements with fact don't bother making them. Syria can certainly tell the whole UN that Israel is building settlements on Palestinian land and a number of UN resolutions have been passed to say as much.
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    Israel notices Syria saying that the withdrawal from Gaza was only a "start." Well Israel would like to see some commitments on behalf of the Palestinians before any more moves are finished by Israel. Israel is disappointed that Syria can expect another withdrawal so soon to the last one when it will not help Israel's peace situation in the slightest, as if it would, the violence would have stopped after Gaza. Violence isn't the right way to go about wanting more land and Israel will not tolerate it in any way.
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    Germany, along with the rest of the Europian Union, are quite distressed about the Israel's decision to withhold PA tax revenue. Therefore, EU foreign ministers meet on Monday, to prevent its financial collapse now Israel is withholding PA tax revenue.
    "It is not in our interest to see the Palestinian Authority break down, especially when the Israelis have stopped disbursing customs duties," a senior EU diplomat said.
    The United Nations has rebuffed the Jewish state's appeal for a suspension of aid."We are advocating that the (Palestinian Authority) institutions should not be starved of funds to the point where they collapse," a diplomat said.
    Germany, as both a member of the EU and UN, advocates the decisions made by both parties. It again requests that Israel reconsider the consequences of its actions.

    [ http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L24296189.htm ]
    [ http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/news...4080160420.htm ]
    (Original post by Micronesia)
    Idiot (gonna try and tell me off for inappropriate language?).
    I will. I expect that you have the civility and maturity to behave better than that!
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    If you make idiotic comments, you'll be called.

    Okay, here's how it works. If you want to be a big powerful EU country then you have to follow their policies. If you want to pursue desperately and rabidly anti-Israel then you can be an Arab/Muslim country.

    Some people here take big countries and sacrifice their personal views, others take, perhaps smaller, countries whose policies run along the lines of their own viewpoints.

    You cannot however try to have a powerful country and try to enforce your own viewpoints upon it.
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    (Original post by gemgems89)
    Israel notices Syria saying that the withdrawal from Gaza was only a "start." Well Israel would like to see some commitments on behalf of the Palestinians before any more moves are finished by Israel. Israel is disappointed that Syria can expect another withdrawal so soon to the last one when it will not help Israel's peace situation in the slightest, as if it would, the violence would have stopped after Gaza. Violence isn't the right way to go about wanting more land and Israel will not tolerate it in any way.
    Why should the Palestinians make any commitments when you imposed yourself on Palestinians by force, destroyed Palestinian society and banished many Palestinains to refugee camps around the middle-east? The Palestinains have a right to their land and it is time you got off of land that does not belong to you.
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    Default-lie position is back. There was no 'palestinian society' prior to their identity was manufactured to be used to fight Israel. Just like there was no 'palestinian people' or 'palestinian nation'. And Israel didn't banish anyone anywhere. A quick look at the Israeli Declaration of Independence sees it invites anyone who wants to to stay in peace. That's why 20% of the Israeli population is Arab. The reason why the 'palestinians' sit in camps is because all their keen supporters in Arab countries have always refused to integrate them in to society and have always ensured they stayed in camps. The 'palestinians' have never had any land that has belonged to them as a people, Israel captured the territories they now possess off Egypt and Jordan in a defensive war.

    I always find it amazing how the pro-Israeli side only has to give facts and truth to support its side.
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    (Original post by JonathanH)
    If you make idiotic comments, you'll be called.

    Okay, here's how it works. If you want to be a big powerful EU country then you have to follow their policies. If you want to pursue desperately and rabidly anti-Israel then you can be an Arab/Muslim country.

    Some people here take big countries and sacrifice their personal views, others take, perhaps smaller, countries whose policies run along the lines of their own viewpoints.

    You cannot however try to have a powerful country and try to enforce your own viewpoints upon it.
    So you're just going to ignore the content of his post where it explains the stand point of the EU nations :confused:
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    Okay, here's how it works. If you want to be a big powerful EU country then you have to follow their policies. If you want to pursue desperately and rabidly anti-Israel then you can be an Arab/Muslim country.
    I am presenting the views held by both the EU and the majority of the UN.
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    (Original post by aiman)
    I am presenting the views held by both the EU and the majority of the UN.
    clearly not, because you're displaying an empathy for Hamas and the PA along similar lines to Syria, and you should be mildly in favour of Israel giving tax money, but certainly not so much as to bring it before the UN - you havnt actually responded to my last post
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    (Original post by Carl)
    So you're just going to ignore the content of his post where it explains the stand point of the EU nations :confused:
    Yes, because it's patently obvious that it does not. The EU considers Hamas a terrorist organisation, Merkel has refused to meet with them and yet he is rabidly pushing for funding of it. It doesn't add up.
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    Yes, because it's patently obvious that it does not. The EU considers Hamas a terrorist organisation, Merkel has refused to meet with them and yet he is rabidly pushing for funding of it. It doesn't add up.
    The EU is pushing for PA funding, naturally Germany a prominent member of the EU has goals that are similar to those of the EU.
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    clearly not, because you're displaying an empathy for Hamas and the PA along similar lines to Syria, and you should be mildly in favour of Israel giving tax money, but certainly not so much as to bring it before the UN - you havnt actually responded to my last post
    I'm sorry that you interpreted my actions as being emphatic towards Hamas. They were meant to be emphatic towards PA. We do not want the PA govt. to collapse. The lack of funding will inevitably lead to this.
    To answer both your question of why this should be discussed here (I apologize for not replying till now) and the 'but certainly not so much as to bring it before the UN' part of your previous post:
    This issue is a concern at the United Nations, the U.S. and Israel do not wish to provide funding to the PA govt. while most other countries believe that the PA govt. should be funded.
    If you would like to read more about this visit: http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/news...4080160420.htm and http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L24296189.htm
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    And to pick a part out of those articles:

    "The EU will continue to give aid to the Palestinians until the new Hamas-led government is formed, but will make further aid conditional on a commitment by the new government to recognise Israel and renounce violence, a senior EU diplomat said."

    That is not the position you have been taken at all, you have advanced the idea that there should be funding no matter what, not simply till a new Cabinet/government is formed.
 
 
 
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