Arguments for and against fox hunting Watch

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musical_moose
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hey,
I know this is a subject that has been discussed a lot(!!) but I'm doing it for my French A2 oral, and need lots of arguments for and against it. I'm arguing against it, but need to be aware of all the different arguments the examiner could come back at me with so I can think of how to respond. Obviously I have the main ones like cruelty to foxes / foxes are pests etc, but other ideas would be appreciated! Thanks
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Howard
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(Original post by loose_moose)
hey,
I know this is a subject that has been discussed a lot(!!) but I'm doing it for my French A2 oral, and need lots of arguments for and against it. I'm arguing against it, but need to be aware of all the different arguments the examiner could come back at me with so I can think of how to respond. Obviously I have the main ones like cruelty to foxes / foxes are pests etc, but other ideas would be appreciated! Thanks
They make really great fur coats.
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ExitMusic
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Arguments against ban:

Foxes are a pest i.e. they kill chickens
They are a top of the food chain i.e. they are not eaten by anything else so they will keep being a pest or they will get killed by farmers anyway
They rummage through rubbish bins, emptying it out onto the street
Fox hunting is a British tradition
Ending fox hunting would result in a loss of many jobs

Arguments against ban:

Some view killing foxes in this manner as inhumane and outdated
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gas_panic!
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Arguments against ban:

Foxes are a pest i.e. they kill chickens-
not many though tbf
They are a top of the food chain i.e. they are not eaten by anything else so they will keep being a pest or they will get killed by farmers anyway- yeah thats natures balance. Nothing eats lions or tigers- lets go kil them as well shall we?
They rummage through rubbish bins, emptying it out onto the street- Do they? Why is your rubbish bin in the street anyway?
Fox hunting is a British tradition-There are lots of traditions we don't adhere to anymore, so why should we stick to this one?
Ending fox hunting would result in a loss of many jobs- How many is many? Are we talking thatcher style caused loss of jobs- i.e hundreds of thousands?

Arguments for ban:

Some view killing foxes in this manner as inhumane and outdated
- Yep this is correct. It is inhumane and very outdated. They don't do it for the love of the hunt as such, they do it because they get off on seeing an animal ripped to shreds- i.e they are gone in the head.
Another argument for the ban is that it stops stupid posh ******s riding around on horses blowing horns.
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Lemonsoul
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Chicken wire can be buried into the ground and form a roof to protect chickens

Humans are also at the top of the food chain, as are lions, elephants etc, should we cull them at the same time?

Rubbish bins can be weighted or alid can be used to make them fox-proof

Slavery was considered a tradition too, until people realised it was inhumane

Why should banning hunting result in the loss of jobs. Hunting involves dressing up and following a bunch of dogs whilst on horseback, this can be accomplished whilst following an artificial scent.

Fox hunting involves killing helpless animals for pleasure, is pointless and inhumane.
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Lemonsoul
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Gas panic, you got there before me, nice post though.
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gas_panic!
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(Original post by nhdb13)
Chicken wire can be buried into the ground and form a roof to protect chickens

Humans are also at the top of the food chain, as are lions, elephants etc, should we cull them at the same time?

Rubbish bins can be weighted or alid can be used to make them fox-proof

Slavery was considered a tradition too, until people realised it was inhumane

Why should banning hunting result in the loss of jobs. Hunting involves dressing up and following a bunch of dogs whilst on horseback, this can be accomplished whilst following an artificial scent.

Fox hunting involves killing helpless animals for pleasure, is pointless and inhumane.

Yes i had already covered most of that..........but i'm glad you agree.
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gas_panic!
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eeb. sorry
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gideon2000uk
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Just as many foxes are being killed after the ban, at least people were having fun before hand - in fact, they still are because the ban has been almost completely impracticable, becuase there are better uses of police time than stamping on peoples liberties and traditions.
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gas_panic!
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(Original post by gideon2000uk)
Just as many foxes are being killed after the ban, at least people were having fun before hand
Oh as long as they we're having fun it was alright! Can't stop them having fun can we!?

(Original post by gideon2000uk)
becuase there are better uses of police time than stamping on peoples liberties and traditions.
Oh my heart bleeds for them. Give me a break. Liberties and traditions- fvck off.
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Exoskeletal
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Fox hunting is for sadists.
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gideon2000uk
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(Original post by gas_panic!)
Oh as long as they we're having fun it was alright! Can't stop them having fun can we!?



Oh my heart bleeds for them. Give me a break. Liberties and traditions- fvck off.
I've never been on a hunt, but please try to appreciate that this is about whole communities of people being brought to gether for a traditional activity. The killing of foxes goes on anyway, usually by snaring and shooting, which leads to considerable suffering.

If you really cared about foxes, you would drop your sentimentalist moral high ground and oppose the ban. But that would prevent you from feeling so good about yourself I would suspect.
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aaronc2
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Fox hunting is part of rural English culture, and, in this country, we are so keen on respecting other cultures, but we seem to be disrespectful of one of our own subcultures - I always found this bizarre (although I do think its cruel, but that means that I wouldnt do it, not that I want other people to be prevented from doing it)
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ForeverIsMyName
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Animals shouldn't have rights. Becuase they're freakin animals!

Should it be an offence to chase spiders down with dogs and horses?
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_jackofdiamonds
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I don't see why I should respect that snobbish inbred subculture who treat people like me with nothing but scorn.
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aaronc2
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(Original post by _jackofdiamonds)
I don't see why I should respect that snobbish inbred subculture who treat people like me with nothing but scorn.
You could argue that of many cultures/subcultures in this country - its not a good idea to go down that road - we should have respect for all cultures, including that of our rural snob buddies
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Ditting Suck
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(Original post by gideon2000uk)
I've never been on a hunt, but please try to appreciate that this is about whole communities of people being brought to gether for a traditional activity. The killing of foxes goes on anyway, usually by snaring and shooting, which leads to considerable suffering.

If you really cared about foxes, you would drop your sentimentalist moral high ground and oppose the ban. But that would prevent you from feeling so good about yourself I would suspect.
Hanging has been a part of British culture for centuries. Do you think we should allow it because it is traditional? What about keeping slaves?

Just because we have historically done misguided things, because they are traditional, does not mean they are acceptable.

And just because something is done illegally, it does not mean it should be legalised.

I care about foxes. Studies have shown that fox populations control themselves without human intervention - anyone who has ever studied predator-prey cycles understands the concept (I'm sorry, I don't have a link at the moment).

And I simply do not accept that the number of foxes shot and snared is anything like the number that were hunted. If you have data to back up such a claim, please provide it.
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aaronc2
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(Original post by Ditting Suck)
Hanging has been a part of British culture for centuries. Do you think we should allow it because it is traditional? What about keeping slaves?
I dont think hanging was actually an important part of British culture - and even it was - that dosnt mean we shouldnt have got rid of it. The difference here is that:

a) 'The hunt' was (still is) an important cultural and social event for these people
b) The cultural grouping themselves (rural snobs!) dont want it banned, so we are technically discriminating against them

The Muslim and Jewish method of killing animals, is very inhumain, yet it would be seen as discriminatory to illegalise it (in this country - although its illegal in Sweden and some other European countries)

Im very concerned by these double standards. IMO this is a case of prejudice against the upper class getting in the way of rational decision making. I think that its very cruel and I certainly wouldnt do it, but that doesnt mean we should illegalise it, its thier choice, not ours

'Man is born free, yet he is everywhere in chains.' – Jean Jacques Rosseau
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Ditting Suck
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(Original post by aaronc2)
The Muslim and Jewish method of killing animals, is very inhumain [sic], yet it would be seen as discriminatory to illegalise it (in this country - although its illegal in Sweden and some other European countries)
I completely accept that, and I personally advocate the banning of halal and kosher slaughter, as well as the importing of meat slaughtered in such a way, in Britain.

But your using this as an example suggests to me that you agree that inhumane practices should be banned, regardless of whether they are culturally important?

Off the top of my head: duelling, pagan sacrifice, witch-burning - all things which one could argue were 'culturally important' in their time, and all things which most people agree should remain illlegal today.
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JonD
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(Original post by aaronc2)
The Muslim and Jewish method of killing animals, is very inhumain, yet it would be seen as discriminatory to illegalise it (in this country - although its illegal in Sweden and some other European countries)
You forgot about the ancient art of fly fishing. Cruel, but so ****. If these animals were so great, they would have all ganged up on us in Eden.

The problem is, there are far too many people who are such suckers for stories about fluffy wuffy animals getting hurted. They don't seem to realise that the people telling them these stories have their minds fixed solely on a little fantasy that's been in the back of their head ever since they first donned a Che shirt - hunting down innocent people on the basis of their supposed (a claim hotly contested) privilege in some frenzied violent revolution. A bunch of evil *******s I'd gladly feed to the hounds if times were harsher.
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