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Is it rape if he's my boyfriend
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Well, as someone else put earlier...we can stay on here debating about whether it was rape or not or we can give her advice to help get her out of this horrible situation. Putting a label on it doesn't make it any worse or better. My opinions are my opinions. There's no point trying to change them, I'm not on here trying to tell you what your opinions should be. I have never said what her bf is doing is acceptable; rape or not. He seriously needs to think about what he's doing or he will lose her for good. No one should have to go through what she is; it's unfair.
Original post by missderrie
Well, as someone else put earlier...we can stay on here debating about whether it was rape or not or we can give her advice to help get her out of this horrible situation. Putting a label on it doesn't make it any worse or better. My opinions are my opinions. There's no point trying to change them, I'm not on here trying to tell you what your opinions should be. I have never said what her bf is doing is acceptable; rape or not. He seriously needs to think about what he's doing or he will lose her for good. No one should have to go through what she is; it's unfair.
Putting a label on it makes it a whole lot easier to come to terms with. Being constantly told that being pressured into sex isn't rape will lead to all sorts of weird feelings about not deserving any kind of support when in fact, she needs just as much support as somebody beaten black and blue.
The second she said no and he continued it became sexual assault. If she doesn't want to have sex and he's pressuring her and forcing himself on her until she gives in then it is rape. She withdrew her consent and he kept going.
Pressuring somebody to the point where they have no choice is just as much rape as being dragged down an alley by a stranger. The only difference is that society thinks it's more social acceptable for no to mean yes when it's in a relationship.
OP needs to get away from him and get some support because what he is doing to her is wrong. Sure, going to the police won't be helpful but she at least needs to know that she needs to get away from anyone that treats her like that.
A lot of you are saying "he doesn't stop therefore it's rape" are apparently incapable of reading
OP said: " I don't want to anymore, purely because it hurts, so he will start fingering me.. and i'll say no, and then he accepts it, but then he starts again"
I'm assuming starts again means something like "waits a few minutes and then tries" instead of "pulls his finger out and then puts it back in." No means no but no doesn't mean never, and the fact that she caves in doesn't make the situation any more clear cut.. Not a healthy relationship but some of the rapenazis here need to calm down a bit.
OP said: " I don't want to anymore, purely because it hurts, so he will start fingering me.. and i'll say no, and then he accepts it, but then he starts again"
I'm assuming starts again means something like "waits a few minutes and then tries" instead of "pulls his finger out and then puts it back in." No means no but no doesn't mean never, and the fact that she caves in doesn't make the situation any more clear cut.. Not a healthy relationship but some of the rapenazis here need to calm down a bit.
Original post by Teenage Pirate
A lot of you are saying "he doesn't stop therefore it's rape" are apparently incapable of reading
OP said: " I don't want to anymore, purely because it hurts, so he will start fingering me.. and i'll say no, and then he accepts it, but then he starts again"
I'm assuming starts again means something like "waits a few minutes and then tries" instead of "pulls his finger out and then puts it back in." No means no but no doesn't mean never, and the fact that she caves in doesn't make the situation any more clear cut.. Not a healthy relationship but some of the rapenazis here need to calm down a bit.
OP said: " I don't want to anymore, purely because it hurts, so he will start fingering me.. and i'll say no, and then he accepts it, but then he starts again"
I'm assuming starts again means something like "waits a few minutes and then tries" instead of "pulls his finger out and then puts it back in." No means no but no doesn't mean never, and the fact that she caves in doesn't make the situation any more clear cut.. Not a healthy relationship but some of the rapenazis here need to calm down a bit.
But she's saying no and then he stops and starts again. It's still wrong. If she's saying no and then he waits a few moments and tries again then it is still wrong. If he is forcing himself on her and she is saying no but he is still asking over and over again then her "consent" is coerced and it not consent at all.
And yes, calling people rapenazis. Very mature. Well done.
Original post by ParadoxSocks
But she's saying no and then he stops and starts again. It's still wrong. If she's saying no and then he waits a few moments and tries again then it is still wrong. If he is forcing himself on her and she is saying no but he is still asking over and over again then her "consent" is coerced and it not consent at all.
And yes, calling people rapenazis. Very mature. Well done.
And yes, calling people rapenazis. Very mature. Well done.
Wouldn't a court recognize that she had every opportunity to leave or get dressed if she actually felt coerced?
If you say 'no' and he starts fingering you again after a clear instruction to stop, he's sexually assaulting you.
I'm not 100% clear on unwilling consent (e.g. resulting from pressure, manipulation and coercion) and rape/sexual assault, but what he did is wrong and unfair.
Rape can and does happen in relationships. Being involved with someone doesn't mean you lose the right to consensual sex.
Have you tried taking to him about it? Have you told him how you feel about it when you are both calm and out of 'the moment'?
If you give in, he gets the 'oh, go on then' message not the 'I hate this but you won't leave me alone' message. He might genuinely not appreciate the severity of what he is doing but that's not an excuse for breaking consent and pressuring someone into a situation they are explicitly not confortable with.
Look out for yourself.
I'm not 100% clear on unwilling consent (e.g. resulting from pressure, manipulation and coercion) and rape/sexual assault, but what he did is wrong and unfair.
Rape can and does happen in relationships. Being involved with someone doesn't mean you lose the right to consensual sex.
Have you tried taking to him about it? Have you told him how you feel about it when you are both calm and out of 'the moment'?
If you give in, he gets the 'oh, go on then' message not the 'I hate this but you won't leave me alone' message. He might genuinely not appreciate the severity of what he is doing but that's not an excuse for breaking consent and pressuring someone into a situation they are explicitly not confortable with.
Look out for yourself.
Original post by Teenage Pirate
A lot of you are saying "he doesn't stop therefore it's rape" are apparently incapable of reading
OP said: " I don't want to anymore, purely because it hurts, so he will start fingering me.. and i'll say no, and then he accepts it, but then he starts again"
I'm assuming starts again means something like "waits a few minutes and then tries" instead of "pulls his finger out and then puts it back in." No means no but no doesn't mean never, and the fact that she caves in doesn't make the situation any more clear cut.. Not a healthy relationship but some of the rapenazis here need to calm down a bit.
OP said: " I don't want to anymore, purely because it hurts, so he will start fingering me.. and i'll say no, and then he accepts it, but then he starts again"
I'm assuming starts again means something like "waits a few minutes and then tries" instead of "pulls his finger out and then puts it back in." No means no but no doesn't mean never, and the fact that she caves in doesn't make the situation any more clear cut.. Not a healthy relationship but some of the rapenazis here need to calm down a bit.
No doesn't mean never. However, that doesn't mean he's in the clear if he waits 5 minutes and then slips a finger in, on the basis that she might be up for it this time. He needs to talk to her about it and determine if she is happy to go ahead, especially as this is a recurring incident and especially as she has already withdrawn consent so he needs to wait for consent before he does it again. Getting angry and repeatedly attempting something he's been told to stop is clearly coercive.
It is not purely the responsibility of the bottom (i.e. the one receiving) to withdraw consent, it is the responsibility of the top (i.e. the one going) to seek consent.
This is rape. Definitely rape.
You said no. No consent = rape.
Giving in is not the same as saying yes and actively consenting.
You have to stop letting him get away with this or he'll get the message that this is ok.
You need to lay this out to him and get him to apologise and stop. If he doesn't he doesn't respect you and you need to end this before it goes any further.
I'm sorry you've been put in this position!
You said no. No consent = rape.
Giving in is not the same as saying yes and actively consenting.
You have to stop letting him get away with this or he'll get the message that this is ok.
You need to lay this out to him and get him to apologise and stop. If he doesn't he doesn't respect you and you need to end this before it goes any further.
I'm sorry you've been put in this position!
Original post by Schmokie Dragon
No doesn't mean never. However, that doesn't mean he's in the clear if he waits 5 minutes and then slips a finger in, on the basis that she might be up for it this time. He needs to talk to her about it and determine if she is happy to go ahead, especially as this is a recurring incident and especially as she has already withdrawn consent so he needs to wait for consent before he does it again. Getting angry and repeatedly attempting something he's been told to stop is clearly coercive.
It is not purely the responsibility of the bottom (i.e. the one receiving) to withdraw consent, it is the responsibility of the top (i.e. the one going) to seek consent.
It is not purely the responsibility of the bottom (i.e. the one receiving) to withdraw consent, it is the responsibility of the top (i.e. the one going) to seek consent.
Consent is implied by the fact that he's in a position to finger her. You don't ask someone "can I have sex with you now?" if they're naked next to you. This guy clearly understands "no", at least in the short term. I guess if her no had been something along the lines of "don't finger me again tonight" then this case would be a bit different.
We're talking about something that happens repeatedly according the OP, something where she gives consent in the end and a situation where she can presumably walk away whenever she wants. It's not nice that her no signs are not understood, but to call it rape is just ludicrous. Because presumably rape is something women want to avoid, and would avoid it by doing something as simple as getting out of bed with the guy or not repeatedly having sex with the guy as a prelude to this rape.
Original post by Teenage Pirate
Consent is implied by the fact that he's in a position to finger her. You don't ask someone "can I have sex with you now?" if they're naked next to you.
Consent is not implied by availability. In some situations it may be reasonable to infer consent without an explicit vocalisation. Afterall, couples don't always have a detailed conversation about limits and consent before engaging in sexual activity. This is largely a combination of risk-taking, expectation (set by precident) and trust. They work on the basis that similar activities have been welcomed in the past and so will be welcomed again and that they trust their partner to know them well enough to judge what is welcome or acceptable, and to act with consideration for their interests. Sometimes behaviour is very leading - kissing, removing clothes, intimate touching - and may happen quite fast. In those cases, one hopes that if someone withdraws consent or does not consent to going 'all the way' (or as far as their partner hopes) they communicate that to their partner and this is respected by cessation of activities.
Whenever people engage in sexual activity without explicitly establishing consent, they take a risk. It doesn't matter how understandable or natural this is, if consent is not granted then you're taking a risk that the actions are not consensual. 'Everyone does it' doesn't stop it being risky and perhaps daft.
It should also be noted that in this case he didn't reasonably believe she was 'up for it' and initiate sexual activity, only to find his conduct called into question. He had already been told to stop and thus had every reason to believe she wasn't interested. That makes it doubly important to determine consent before carrying on or trying again. And to be honest, if she said no he should has left her alone and not 'tried his luck' until she gave in.
This guy clearly understands "no", at least in the short term. I guess if her no had been something along the lines of "don't finger me again tonight" then this case would be a bit different.
So, it is her responsibility to say 'no, I don't want you to finger me for x length of time' - to lay out her terms and conditions - and not his to determine whether what he wants will be well received? In effect, he is within his rights to pester her and if it bothers her, she should lay down some ground rules? What about, I dunno, not pressuring someone in the first place? Perhaps you don't think he had reason to believe he was pressuring her, but given that she repeatedly said no and she tells us he got annoyed, I think he'd have to be pretty dumb to believe that.
We're talking about something that happens repeatedly according the OP, something where she gives consent in the end and a situation where she can presumably walk away whenever she wants. It's not nice that her no signs are not understood, but to call it rape is just ludicrous. Because presumably rape is something women want to avoid, and would avoid it by doing something as simple as getting out of bed with the guy or not repeatedly having sex with the guy as a prelude to this rape.
She gives consent under pressure - counts for very little. She could perhaps walk away - we don't know the details - but surely it is enough to say 'no'? Should we have to get up and walk away every time we don't want sex/sexual activity, for fear that simply staying in bed or near the person somehow overrides our non-consent? Yes, we want to avoid rape but surely it is the responsibility of others not to break the law and violate their fellows? Surely we should not be expected to function on the basis that anything goes and if we don't like it, we must physically prevent it (by moving away, calling for help, staying away from risky situations, etc)? Why is 'no', 'stop' or 'go away' not enough? Is it only rape if someone is violent? Why is she more responsible for the actions of her assailant than he is?
Original post by x-Disenchanted-x
My ex used to do that, and I thought it was just normal, but what he's doing just shows a complete lack of respect. You need to tell him how serious you feel about this.
It's a good thing you said 'ex'. Lot of clues there.
Original post by mrgamer98
Tbh if i was the guy i would leave the relationship, due to sexual fustration. personally i couldnt live without it. and if it will cause me to cheat i would try to prevent it
(edited 12 years ago)
Original post by Schmokie Dragon
She gives consent under pressure - counts for very little. She could perhaps walk away - we don't know the details - but surely it is enough to say 'no'? Should we have to get up and walk away every time we don't want sex/sexual activity, for fear that simply staying in bed or near the person somehow overrides our non-consent? Yes, we want to avoid rape but surely it is the responsibility of others not to break the law and violate their fellows? Surely we should not be expected to function on the basis that anything goes and if we don't like it, we must physically prevent it (by moving away, calling for help, staying away from risky situations, etc)? Why is 'no', 'stop' or 'go away' not enough? Is it only rape if someone is violent? Why is she more responsible for the actions of her assailant than he is?
She gives consent under pressure - counts for very little. She could perhaps walk away - we don't know the details - but surely it is enough to say 'no'? Should we have to get up and walk away every time we don't want sex/sexual activity, for fear that simply staying in bed or near the person somehow overrides our non-consent? Yes, we want to avoid rape but surely it is the responsibility of others not to break the law and violate their fellows? Surely we should not be expected to function on the basis that anything goes and if we don't like it, we must physically prevent it (by moving away, calling for help, staying away from risky situations, etc)? Why is 'no', 'stop' or 'go away' not enough? Is it only rape if someone is violent? Why is she more responsible for the actions of her assailant than he is?
short reply to just this part because I'm low on time
she is naked in bed next to the guy. people pressure other people for sex all the time (the classic sitcom guy trying to get the girl into the mood kinda thing), there's a big difference between "no" (especially if that no has repeatedly led to a yes later on) and "I'm leaving now" or "you're really hurting me". seriously you seem completely oblivious to the context. SHE'S IN BED NAKED NEXT TO THE GUY SHE'S JUST HAD CONSENSUAL SEX WITH. this isn't like a guy coercing her into sex acts in a situation she can't get out of easily, this is a guy nagging her while she continues to lie next to him, naked. pretty that if you wanted to establish the level of coercion here to be equivalent to rape (which is a pretty serious crime you know?), you'd need to show that avoiding the coercion wasn't as simple as getting up or being more stern.
and "assailant", her responsibility blahblahblah take your loaded language back to your feminazi knitting club or slutwalk group or whatever
Original post by Teenage Pirate
short reply to just this part because I'm low on time
she is naked in bed next to the guy. people pressure other people for sex all the time (the classic sitcom guy trying to get the girl into the mood kinda thing), there's a big difference between "no" (especially if that no has repeatedly led to a yes later on) and "I'm leaving now" or "you're really hurting me". seriously you seem completely oblivious to the context. SHE'S IN BED NAKED NEXT TO THE GUY SHE'S JUST HAD CONSENSUAL SEX WITH. this isn't like a guy coercing her into sex acts in a situation she can't get out of easily, this is a guy nagging her while she continues to lie next to him, naked. pretty that if you wanted to establish the level of coercion here to be equivalent to rape (which is a pretty serious crime you know?), you'd need to show that avoiding the coercion wasn't as simple as getting up or being more stern.
and "assailant", her responsibility blahblahblah take your loaded language back to your feminazi knitting club or slutwalk group or whatever
she is naked in bed next to the guy. people pressure other people for sex all the time (the classic sitcom guy trying to get the girl into the mood kinda thing), there's a big difference between "no" (especially if that no has repeatedly led to a yes later on) and "I'm leaving now" or "you're really hurting me". seriously you seem completely oblivious to the context. SHE'S IN BED NAKED NEXT TO THE GUY SHE'S JUST HAD CONSENSUAL SEX WITH. this isn't like a guy coercing her into sex acts in a situation she can't get out of easily, this is a guy nagging her while she continues to lie next to him, naked. pretty that if you wanted to establish the level of coercion here to be equivalent to rape (which is a pretty serious crime you know?), you'd need to show that avoiding the coercion wasn't as simple as getting up or being more stern.
and "assailant", her responsibility blahblahblah take your loaded language back to your feminazi knitting club or slutwalk group or whatever
Actually you are oh so wrong in my opinion NO means just that NO implied consent or even explicit consent is negated and withdrawn with the mention of the words NO STOP Don't do that.. I changed my mind.. or any other form wth the same meaning
just because someone lays in front of you stark naked .. possibly even using sex toys does not give you the right to pressure them into sex ...
end of..
anyhing else is simply RAPE
attitudes like this really annoy me .... there is no need for it .... all you are doing is advocating sexual harassment.... just because its on a sit com doesnt make it ok .... there are lots of things on sitcoms that are not ...
/rant
(edited 12 years ago)
Original post by Dragon_Keeper
Actually you are oh so wrong in my opinion NO means just that NO implied consent or even explicit consent is negated and withdrawn with the mention of the words NO STOP Don't do that.. I changed my mind.. or any other form wth the same meaning
well done for reading the OP retard. "no" led to a stop in this case. no doesn't mean never, like I said earlier, so the guy tried again later.
some people here think that a guy throwing a temper tantrum and the girl saying "yes" is a form of coercion, completely ignoring the fact that she could very easily have done something as simple as putting clothes on or leaving
Original post by Teenage Pirate
short reply to just this part because I'm low on time. she is naked in bed next to the guy
So? She withdrew consent. That should be the end of it. Naked, clothed, short skirt, burka, drunk, sober, post-sex, virgin. She withdrew consent, clearly and verbally.
people pressure other people for sex all the time
And? What happens is not a model for what should happen, is does no mean ought, etc. People do a lot of stupid and unfair things. That doesn't make it right.
(the classic sitcom guy trying to get the girl into the mood kinda thing),
Again, irrelevant. A) jokes and 'gags' are not a model for ideal behaviour and b) even if these jokes are parodying 'real life', that doesn't mean the situation being parodied is good.
there's a big difference between "no" (especially if that no has repeatedly led to a yes later on) and "I'm leaving now" or "you're really hurting me".
I like this one. Apparently 'no' isn't stong enough to clearly signify the withdrawal of consent. I'd like to see that stand up in court. "she said no, your honour, but she didn't start crying, slap me around the face and storm off, so I didn't really rape her".
seriously you seem completely oblivious to the context. SHE'S IN BED NAKED NEXT TO THE GUY SHE'S JUST HAD CONSENSUAL SEX WITH.
I'm not at all oblivious. All I am saying is that 'no means no', irrespective of what someone is wearing, doing or whether they choose to stay.
In some instances, different words are agreed to mean 'no' (such as safewords) where actually saying 'no' is not necessarily going to mean conser is withdrawn, but the essence of 'no' is still being communicated even if a different word is chosen and agreed upon. No means no means no. Hell, he could have been mid-act but if she said no or stop and he heard her but didn't, he has raped her.
this isn't like a guy coercing her into sex acts in a situation she can't get out of easily, this is a guy nagging her while she continues to lie next to him, naked. pretty that if you wanted to establish the level of coercion here to be equivalent to rape (which is a pretty serious crime you know?), you'd need to show that avoiding the coercion wasn't as simple as getting up or being more stern.
It doesn't matter if she can escape or not. It doesn't matter if she puts her clothes on or not. She said no. He continued to pressure her, he sexually assaulted her (by fingering her) after she had told him to stop (the short breaks he took count for sweet F A) and he put her in a position where she didn't feel able to say no. That counts as coercion, sexual assault and rape. There does not need to be any violence involved. Her actions, in terms of whether she chose to escape the situation or stay, do not make what he did more acceptable or less violating. She may not have acted in her own best interests but that doesn't make him less responsible for his actions.
At the end of the day, she did not consent to sexual intimacy, he did not respect that.
and "assailant", her responsibility blahblahblah take your loaded language back to your feminazi knitting club or slutwalk group or whatever
Take your victim blaming, woman hating nonsense back to whatever primitive hole you came from, you rapist sympathiser.
Don't like that? Then keep the ad-hominums and derogatory comments out of this.
(edited 12 years ago)
Original post by Teenage Pirate
well done for reading the OP retard.
BACK OFF.
"no" led to a stop in this case. no doesn't mean never, like I said earlier, so the guy tried again later.
No lead to a brief pause. He then tried again without establishing willing and informed consent. He fingered her while the 'no' was still active and made no attempt to check if she'd changed her mind other than to insert parts of himself into her and wait for her to tell him to stop. Again. He then got angry at her when she did withdraw consent (again) and pressured her into sex.
How can you possibly think this is acceptable behaviour?
some people here think that a guy throwing a temper tantrum and the girl saying "yes" is a form of coercion, completely ignoring the fact that she could very easily have done something as simple as putting clothes on or leaving
There is such a thing as emotional coercion and manipulation. No-one has suggested he got physically violent (aside from being sexually aggressive) but that doesn't matter.
Original post by Teenage Pirate
well done for reading the OP retard. "no" led to a stop in this case. no doesn't mean never, like I said earlier, so the guy tried again later.
some people here think that a guy throwing a temper tantrum and the girl saying "yes" is a form of coercion, completely ignoring the fact that she could very easily have done something as simple as putting clothes on or leaving
some people here think that a guy throwing a temper tantrum and the girl saying "yes" is a form of coercion, completely ignoring the fact that she could very easily have done something as simple as putting clothes on or leaving
Firstly personal insults are not very mature .. I have been insulted far more effectivly by peole with I.Q's around my shoe size
secondly I think you need to grow up a little
she said No end of ... he threw a tantrum probably made her feel threatened which is coercion. threatening behavior to get what you want is not acceptable behaviour
I hope one day you have a daughter .. and I hope this never happens to her
I would love to see how calm you remain if your daughter came back and told you this story .. ALL I will say is in years to come remember your words well on here ... I also hope that one day if this were ever to happen to your daughter her assailant quotes what you have said here ..." what do you mean I attacked and raped your daughter .. I thought it was alright I saw your posts on TSR where you said it was acceptable behavior so I guessed you wouldnt mind"
yer sure you would be nice and calm then and defending his actions ..
when you can have a civil conversation without hurling insults about like a baby spitting his dummy out please feel free to reply
I guess if you find this kind of thing acceptable you just blew out every sensible female (or male or transitioning person) on here .... guess date rape is your thing ... not mine
end trans....
Original post by jami74
Definately this ^.
I believe that relationships can be turned around. Now that you've recognised what is going on you need to get really tough and lay down the law about what is acceptable and what isn't. He'll try it on anyway but you'll need to stand firm. If he loves you and is just behaving badly because he can get away with it then he'll sort it out and respect you more for respecting yourself. If he doesn't sort himself out then it is because he doesn't love and respect you enough to make the effort.
I believe that relationships can be turned around. Now that you've recognised what is going on you need to get really tough and lay down the law about what is acceptable and what isn't. He'll try it on anyway but you'll need to stand firm. If he loves you and is just behaving badly because he can get away with it then he'll sort it out and respect you more for respecting yourself. If he doesn't sort himself out then it is because he doesn't love and respect you enough to make the effort.
This is possibly the worst advice I've ever read on this site. OP you need to get the **** out of that relationship now, there is no way it can be 'turned around'.
Original post by Dragon_Keeper
Firstly personal insults are not very mature .. I have been insulted far more effectivly by peole with I.Q's around my shoe size
secondly I think you need to grow up a little
she said No end of ... he threw a tantrum probably made her feel threatened which is coercion. threatening behavior to get what you want is not acceptable behaviour
I hope one day you have a daughter .. and I hope this never happens to her
I would love to see how calm you remain if your daughter came back and told you this story .. ALL I will say is in years to come remember your words well on here ... I also hope that one day if this were ever to happen to your daughter her assailant quotes what you have said here ..." what do you mean I attacked and raped your daughter .. I thought it was alright I saw your posts on TSR where you said it was acceptable behavior so I guessed you wouldnt mind"
yer sure you would be nice and calm then and defending his actions ..
when you can have a civil conversation without hurling insults about like a baby spitting his dummy out please feel free to reply
I guess if you find this kind of thing acceptable you just blew out every sensible female (or male or transitioning person) on here .... guess date rape is your thing ... not mine
end trans....
secondly I think you need to grow up a little
she said No end of ... he threw a tantrum probably made her feel threatened which is coercion. threatening behavior to get what you want is not acceptable behaviour
I hope one day you have a daughter .. and I hope this never happens to her
I would love to see how calm you remain if your daughter came back and told you this story .. ALL I will say is in years to come remember your words well on here ... I also hope that one day if this were ever to happen to your daughter her assailant quotes what you have said here ..." what do you mean I attacked and raped your daughter .. I thought it was alright I saw your posts on TSR where you said it was acceptable behavior so I guessed you wouldnt mind"
yer sure you would be nice and calm then and defending his actions ..
when you can have a civil conversation without hurling insults about like a baby spitting his dummy out please feel free to reply
I guess if you find this kind of thing acceptable you just blew out every sensible female (or male or transitioning person) on here .... guess date rape is your thing ... not mine
end trans....
ok so basically you posted like one relevant fact so I'll address that
how is a tantrum threatening behaviour (in the OP they say he got angry)? no evidence of that in the OP. emotional blackmail is not coercion.
stop whiteknighting
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