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Let Afghanistan Rot
Why are British soldiers being made to give their lives to prop up the sexist fascist values of Islam? Within days of 6 of them paying the ultimate price, Hamid Khazai has openly backed the oppression of women in his failed state. I'm sure 11 years ago when the Invasion was planned supporting the Beating and abuse of women was one of the main Nato objectives.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/mar/06/hamid-karzai-restricive-code-women-afghanistan?newsfeed=true
"The rules say women should not travel without a male guardian and should not mingle with strange men in places such as schools, markets and offices. Beating one's wife is prohibited only if there is no sharia-compliant reason,"
"It is the sharia law of all Muslims and all Afghans."- Khazai
The Islamist hell hole of Afghanistan will continue to be a failed state decades after we leave, poignant this comes so close to International womens day, with Saudi Arabia also doing there best to honour the event as well.
http://www.presstv.ir/detail/230638.html
Sharia laws sexist values are being fought for by British troops, this is madness. Afghanistan should be left to descend into chaos Al Qaeda have left and we are simply making enemies by the day. We are not fighting terrorists in Afghanistan, we are fighting ordinary people who have been led to see us as their oppressors. In 2 years when our troops are meant to withdraw the toll will have increased once again. Just so an Islamist state of abuse and hate can flourish.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/mar/06/hamid-karzai-restricive-code-women-afghanistan?newsfeed=true
"The rules say women should not travel without a male guardian and should not mingle with strange men in places such as schools, markets and offices. Beating one's wife is prohibited only if there is no sharia-compliant reason,"
"It is the sharia law of all Muslims and all Afghans."- Khazai
The Islamist hell hole of Afghanistan will continue to be a failed state decades after we leave, poignant this comes so close to International womens day, with Saudi Arabia also doing there best to honour the event as well.
http://www.presstv.ir/detail/230638.html
Sharia laws sexist values are being fought for by British troops, this is madness. Afghanistan should be left to descend into chaos Al Qaeda have left and we are simply making enemies by the day. We are not fighting terrorists in Afghanistan, we are fighting ordinary people who have been led to see us as their oppressors. In 2 years when our troops are meant to withdraw the toll will have increased once again. Just so an Islamist state of abuse and hate can flourish.
(edited 13 years ago)
We need somewhere to train our troops for when we invade france.
Our original goal was to stop a government that harbored and supported terrorist groups that were a threat to us and the world, our current goal is to ensure that dangerous extremists wont be taking over again not to teach a country why basing your laws off a 1600 year old book is a bad idea.
Hopefully the transition will start going more smoothly and we can get out of there within the next 5 years, after that the Afghanis can be as conservative as they like providing they don't start falling back into old habits and are able to keep their own country safe while keeping terrorists and terrorist training camps out.
You can't teach people who don't want to learn, if the balance is shifting towards conservative Islam that is due to a large number of the native people wanting it. Attempting to force our ideals on a group of peoples who don't want them will only lead to resentment towards us and probably large scale resistance.
If countries like Afghanistan are ever going to become more civilized then they need to do it on their own.
Hopefully the transition will start going more smoothly and we can get out of there within the next 5 years, after that the Afghanis can be as conservative as they like providing they don't start falling back into old habits and are able to keep their own country safe while keeping terrorists and terrorist training camps out.
You can't teach people who don't want to learn, if the balance is shifting towards conservative Islam that is due to a large number of the native people wanting it. Attempting to force our ideals on a group of peoples who don't want them will only lead to resentment towards us and probably large scale resistance.
If countries like Afghanistan are ever going to become more civilized then they need to do it on their own.
(edited 13 years ago)
Original post by Darth Stewie
Our original goal was to stop a government that harbored and supported terrorist groups that were a threat to us and the world, our current goal is to ensure that dangerous extremists wont be taking over again not to teach a country why basing your laws off a 1600 year old book is a bad idea.
Hopefully the transition will start going more smoothly and we can get out of there within the next 5 years, after that the Afghanis can be as conservative as they like providing they don't start falling back into old habits.
Hopefully the transition will start going more smoothly and we can get out of there within the next 5 years, after that the Afghanis can be as conservative as they like providing they don't start falling back into old habits.
How long do you thing Kharzai's government will last once we leave ?
Cutting our losses and leaving now is the best option. The only reason we are still there is because of pride. I think most of our leaders know its a fools errand, by 2014 around 100 or so more troops will have died.
Remembering that not one attack on Britain has originated from Afghanistan, all our terrorist's are home grown.
I don't want to sound negative but we do all realise that within about 6 months of us leaving they'll be back to eating their babies, farming drugs for us (did they ever stop?) and building holiday camps for extremists.
The biggest problem the west is going to have prior to leaving is how much armament to leave the Afghan govt. Too little and they'll have no chance against the Taliban and too much is a risk for it inevitably falling to the Taliban.
The biggest problem the west is going to have prior to leaving is how much armament to leave the Afghan govt. Too little and they'll have no chance against the Taliban and too much is a risk for it inevitably falling to the Taliban.
Original post by Akinfenwa
How long do you thing Kharzai's government will last once we leave ?
Cutting our losses and leaving now is the best option. The only reason we are still there is because of pride. I think most of our leaders know its a fools errand, by 2014 around 100 or so more troops will have died.
Remembering that not one attack on Britain has originated from Afghanistan, all our terrorist's are home grown.
Cutting our losses and leaving now is the best option. The only reason we are still there is because of pride. I think most of our leaders know its a fools errand, by 2014 around 100 or so more troops will have died.
Remembering that not one attack on Britain has originated from Afghanistan, all our terrorist's are home grown.
Honestly i have no idea, however even if it collapsed a week after we left it would be years before a group like the Taliban could get another set up like it had before we invaded. They don't need to become anything near what we expect from western countries, they just need to keep extremists from getting any kind of real power.
Afghanistan was a complete hotbed for training camps and extremist ideology, it is true no successful attack on us was ever linked to any of the groups operating out of Afghanistan however we don't know how many our security services have stopped and even having a place like that on the globe would have caused us problems at some point.
If the transition doesn't start going smoother in the next year or so we need to start looking at other options but for the mean time we should at least try handing over control so at least for the near future the Afghanis are able to protect themselves against dangerous groups. Simple fact is if we just cut our losses now the whole place would collapse and this entire war would have been for nothing.
Original post by GunnerBill
x
We could just leave allowing them to fight it out and then let the Americans deal with any subsequent bases with drone attacks, they seem to be effective in Pakistan.
Original post by Akinfenwa
Remembering that not one attack on Britain has originated from Afghanistan, all our terrorist's are home grown.
Home grown but "educated" overseas. In the case of 7/7 the training was in Pakistan but Pakistan/Afghanistan border is so porous it's as good as the same place.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/feb/13/jihadi-train-7-7-bomber-freed
An American jihadist who set up the terrorist training camp where the leader of the 2005 London suicide bombers learned how to manufacture explosives, has been quietly released after serving only four and a half years of a possible 70-year sentence, a Guardian investigation has learned.
The unreported sentencing of Mohammed Junaid Babar to "time served" because of what a New York judge described as "exceptional co-operation" that began even before his arrest has raised questions over whether Babar was a US informer at the time he was helping to train the ringleader of the 7 July tube and bus bombings.
The unreported sentencing of Mohammed Junaid Babar to "time served" because of what a New York judge described as "exceptional co-operation" that began even before his arrest has raised questions over whether Babar was a US informer at the time he was helping to train the ringleader of the 7 July tube and bus bombings.
Babar was imprisoned in 2004 – although final sentencing was deferred – after pleading guilty in a New York court to five counts of terrorism. He set up the training camp in Pakistan where Mohammad Sidique Khan and several other British terrorists learned about bomb-making and how to use combat weapons.
(edited 13 years ago)
Original post by Akinfenwa
Why are British soldiers being made to give their lives to prop up the sexist fascist values of Islam? Within days of 6 of them paying the ultimate price, Hamid Khazai has openly backed the oppression of women in his failed state. I'm sure 11 years ago when the Invasion was planned supporting the Beating and abuse of women was one of the main Nato objectives.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/mar/06/hamid-karzai-restricive-code-women-afghanistan?newsfeed=true
"The rules say women should not travel without a male guardian and should not mingle with strange men in places such as schools, markets and offices. Beating one's wife is prohibited only if there is no sharia-compliant reason,"
"It is the sharia law of all Muslims and all Afghans."- Khazai
The Islamist hell hole of Afghanistan will continue to be a failed state decades after we leave, poignant this comes so close to International womens day, with Saudi Arabia also doing there best to honour the event as well.
http://www.presstv.ir/detail/230638.html
Sharia laws sexist values are being fought for by British troops, this is madness. Afghanistan should be left to descend into chaos Al Qaeda have left and we are simply making enemies by the day. We are not fighting terrorists in Afghanistan, we are fighting ordinary people who have been led to see us as their oppressors. In 2 years when our troops are meant to withdraw the toll will have increased once again. Just so an Islamist state of abuse and hate can flourish.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/mar/06/hamid-karzai-restricive-code-women-afghanistan?newsfeed=true
"The rules say women should not travel without a male guardian and should not mingle with strange men in places such as schools, markets and offices. Beating one's wife is prohibited only if there is no sharia-compliant reason,"
"It is the sharia law of all Muslims and all Afghans."- Khazai
The Islamist hell hole of Afghanistan will continue to be a failed state decades after we leave, poignant this comes so close to International womens day, with Saudi Arabia also doing there best to honour the event as well.
http://www.presstv.ir/detail/230638.html
Sharia laws sexist values are being fought for by British troops, this is madness. Afghanistan should be left to descend into chaos Al Qaeda have left and we are simply making enemies by the day. We are not fighting terrorists in Afghanistan, we are fighting ordinary people who have been led to see us as their oppressors. In 2 years when our troops are meant to withdraw the toll will have increased once again. Just so an Islamist state of abuse and hate can flourish.
Please do leave, Afghan will be much better off. I mean, do you really want this number to rise? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-10634173
Both Karzai and the "Ulema" won't be left to lead.
Original post by Darth Stewie
Our original goal was to stop a government that harbored and supported terrorist groups that were a threat to us and the world, our current goal is to ensure that dangerous extremists wont be taking over again not to teach a country why basing your laws off a 1600 year old book is a bad idea. towards us and probably large scale resistance.
Not really. Our current goal is nation building.
Halliburton needs the trans Afghan pipeline and Karzai is corrupt - the british and american governments know this, but are still backing him. Also, the Americans are now talking with the taliban in Qatar, talking of an Afghanistan without Karzai
We let Afghanistan rot after the Soviets pulled out twenty years ago. That certainly didn't turn out too well.
I've heard that 99.9% of the original Taliban are dead already but new recruits keep coming from all over the world especially from other muslim countires and that keeps their numbers topped up so maybe when the US and the UK pull out those non afghan members of the taliban will return to their countires aswell maybe ten the Afghan goverment and police could beat their reduced numbers.
We get negged for wanting to dump them and we get negged for supporting the invasion. **** everyone.
couldnt agree more ... the task of taming afghanistan is like the soloman islands invading and conquering the USA it will not happen ... if the might of the British empire and the USSR couldnt beat the afghans what possible hope do we have now? its a fools erand and we should cut our losses, nothing good will ever come out of this.
Can I remind you that you're a civilian without access to official NATO documents hence can't really make an informed opinion on cutting our losses?
Also, I really hate people who use the fact that there's an Islamic government = automatic failure. I'd much rather prefer UAE style Islamic government than Taliban style Islamic government. Islam is an ideology, it isn't a group. Different groups that support the ideology have different interpretations. Some are more liberal than others. It'll be excellent to have a liberal secular democracy but we can't ignore the Afghan population.
I support the current plans to remove combat troops by 2015 then allow military advisers to continue on training/providing intelligence to Afghan troops so hopefully they'll have the power to remove the remaining Taliban. Currently, the Afghan military don't have the capability to fight the Taliban and removing our support guarantees Afghan becoming a failed state. Whereas, with post-2015 it could go either way depending on what happens between now and 2015.
Also, I really hate people who use the fact that there's an Islamic government = automatic failure. I'd much rather prefer UAE style Islamic government than Taliban style Islamic government. Islam is an ideology, it isn't a group. Different groups that support the ideology have different interpretations. Some are more liberal than others. It'll be excellent to have a liberal secular democracy but we can't ignore the Afghan population.
I support the current plans to remove combat troops by 2015 then allow military advisers to continue on training/providing intelligence to Afghan troops so hopefully they'll have the power to remove the remaining Taliban. Currently, the Afghan military don't have the capability to fight the Taliban and removing our support guarantees Afghan becoming a failed state. Whereas, with post-2015 it could go either way depending on what happens between now and 2015.
Original post by GunnerBill
We need somewhere to train our troops for when we invade france.
W..wait, you think they need training to do that?
I'm pretty sure a crack team of me, Cilla Black and Paul O'grady could take France if we tried hard enough.
(edited 13 years ago)
Original post by Snagprophet
We get negged for wanting to dump them and we get negged for supporting the invasion. **** everyone.
I hear that brother but you got to remember it's cool to hate on Britain.
Related discussions
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- Free visa for students
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- History cold war questions 2023
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