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    I think God caused the big bang which caused everything else later on. Full stop!
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    (Original post by Steve Butters)
    As i stated in my last post, one cannot prove a negative. One cannot prove that invisible bananas DONT exist. How would one gain "evidence" of the invisible? Surely the fact that you cant see these invisible bananas is all the evidence you need to show that they exist, right? Hopefully you can now see how your question is illogical.
    Did you or did you not say that 'belief in god is silly', I was just wondering how you can support this claim.

    (Original post by Steve Butters)

    Now, as for the question "what started the big bang?" Well, a branch of science called quantum mechanics says that matter can appear spontaneously, thanks to something called a quantum fluctuation, a sort of hiccup in the energy field. Something that "just happens" need not actually violate the laws of physics. When concerned with the nature of atoms and molecules, the usual rules of cause and effect are suspended. Things just happen spontaneously, for no particular reason. Particles of matter may simply pop into existence without warning, and then equally abruptly disappear again. These are real effects occurring on an atomic scale, and they can be demonstrated experimentally.

    Now, as humans we have a duty to ourselves to attain knowledge and seek the truth. Scientific study gives us all the evidence we need for how the universe came to be. Ofcourse, some people choose to disregard and ignore scientific evidence and simply say "God did it", but thats just silly isnt it. Anyone with an ounce of sense knows no such God exists or has ever existed. Keep studying, and thanks everyone.
    This is silly! Ok... so you say matter can appear spontaneously because of quantum fluctuation, but can you explain why does quantum fluctuation happen? You seem to suggest that there is a scientific reason why everything occurs (not because of this silly thing called 'God'), yet you contradict yourself by saying that this 'quantum fluctuation' just happens for no particular reason. That's just silly.

    We can go on and on about how much we have discovered about particles and energy bla bla bla in science, but no one can give a satisfactory scientific answer to the fundamental question - HOW did all these particles and energy and whatever else come to exist? Remember, you can't just say they came about for no particular reason, if you want to be strictly scientific, there must be some sort of explanation. Answer that for me scientifically.
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    (Original post by trinigyal)
    This is silly! Ok... so you say matter can appear spontaneously because of quantum fluctuation, but can you explain why does quantum fluctuation happen? You seem to suggest that there is a scientific reason why everything occurs (not because of this silly thing called 'God'), yet you contradict yourself by saying that this 'quantum fluctuation' just happens for no particular reason. That's just silly.

    We can go on and on about how much we have discovered about particles and energy bla bla bla in science, but no one can give a satisfactory scientific answer to the fundamental question - HOW did all these particles and energy and whatever else come to exist? Remember, you can't just say they came about for no particular reason, if you want to be strictly scientific, there must be some sort of explanation. Answer that for me scientifically.
    Do you believe in God trinigyal?

    hmmmm... what do you think?
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    (Original post by pal_sch)
    Black holes could be a super dense chunk of matter, denser than a nutron star if that is possible.
    Black holes are infinitely dense, as they are singularities (ie. single points and therefore have no volume).. at least, that's what I've been told.
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    Aaaaaaaaaaaaargh.

    In a word.

    (*migraine*)
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    Obviously God was the ultimate cause for everything. Because the Big Bang, or even something before it could not be a cause in itself. That's just stupid!
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    (Original post by trinigyal)
    This is silly! Ok... so you say matter can appear spontaneously because of quantum fluctuation, but can you explain why does quantum fluctuation happen? You seem to suggest that there is a scientific reason why everything occurs (not because of this silly thing called 'God'), yet you contradict yourself by saying that this 'quantum fluctuation' just happens for no particular reason. That's just silly.

    We can go on and on about how much we have discovered about particles and energy bla bla bla in science, but no one can give a satisfactory scientific answer to the fundamental question - HOW did all these particles and energy and whatever else come to exist? Remember, you can't just say they came about for no particular reason, if you want to be strictly scientific, there must be some sort of explanation. Answer that for me scientifically.
    The irony is that you seem to be contradicting YOURself. Quantum fluctuation can't just happen. However God can just be there. What if quantum fluctuation was God? Then it could just happen. Except it wouldn't be God as you perceive God to be, thus there would be no cause to quantum fluctuation and yet there would be no God.

    Also if we're willing to except that things are infinitely dense, etc, would it be such a big leap to suggest that we could have infinite series of events? So quantum fluctuation would not be a form of God in this situation as it would have a cause. However that cause would also have a cause, and so on. Thus there would never be a God.

    (Original post by piginapoke)
    I'm often wondered: if a singularity has infinite density, shouldn't it also have infinite mass, and therefore infinite gravitational attraction? Or, if they really had no volume, wouldn't they also have no mass?
    mass can take up no volume. In the Standard Model, all particles have no volume, but they can have mass. (for example, the electron has no volume, it is just a point, but it does have mass (9.109 x 10^-31 kg). so in a sense, all matter is infinitely dense. However, something that is infinitely dense does not necessarily have infinite mass, if its volume is 0. (like the electron, or a black hole). Anyway, that's the Standard Model, with String Theory, there's no need for a singularity, a black hole is planck-sized (1.6 x 10^-35 m) and so it is not infinitely dense, and String theory has so far been able to (theoretically) unite General Relativity with Quantum Mechanics.
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    (Original post by 00leam2)
    i know the big bang happened?
    but if ppl believe in evolution what was there b4 the big bang
    how did the universe *** to existence
    God said it and Bang! it happened.
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    (Original post by DRS)
    Did you or did you not say that 'belief in god is silly', I was just wondering how you can support this claim.
    Actually DRS, i said that it is silly to "disregard and ignore scientific evidence and simply say "God did it"". If you followed my later comments you'd have realised that i likened it to believing that giant invisible eagles are responsible for the motion of motorcars. One cannot prove that such eagles DONT exist, but it IS silly to believe cars move due to their influence, particularly when we have evidence to show how cars really work. We have evidence to show how the universe really works, and sadly it doesnt include some creator God who writes bibles, who answers prayers, who cures cancer patients, who impregnates virgins, who forgives sins and who sends down his son to die for us. When you can supply a shred of evidence to show how such a God exists in reality, as opposed to a figment of the imagination, then i'll give your belief some consideration. Until then i'll stick with what i said earlier.

    As for Trinigyal's comments "HOW did all these particles and energy and whatever else come to exist?". Well, throughout the universe, particles and antiparticles spontaneously form and quickly annihilate each other without violating the law of energy conservation (remembering ofcourse that "spontaneous" means arising from a natural inclination or impulse and not from external incitement or constraint). These spontaneous births and deaths of so-called "virtual particle" pairs are known as "quantum fluctuations" (as mentioned in my earlier posts). Indeed, laboratory experiments have proven that quantum fluctuations occur everywhere, all the time. Virtual particle pairs (such as electrons and positrons) directly affect the energy levels of atoms, and the predicted energy levels disagree with the experimentally measured levels unless quantum fluctuations are taken into account. Perhaps many quantum fluctuations occurred before the birth of our universe. Most of them quickly disappeared. But one lived sufficiently long and had the right conditions for inflation to have been initiated. Thereafter, the original tiny volume inflated by an enormous factor, and our macroscopic universe was born. The original particle-antiparticle pair (or pairs) may have subsequently annihilated each other – but even if they didn’t, the violation of energy conservation would be minuscule, not large enough to be measurable. Therefore, the answer to the ultimate question is that the universe came from nothing, and its total energy is zero, but it nevertheless has incredible structure and complexity. I hope i have answered your question as scientifically as requested Trinigyal. And remember that you are free to believe a God is responsible, but he doesnt spring into existence due to wishful thinking. Hoping that something exists does not incur its definite existence, sadly.

    An interesting and relevant quote: "Science offers us an explanation of how complexity arose out of simplicity. The hypothesis of God offers no worthwhile explanation for anything, for it simply postulates what we are trying to explain. It postulates the difficult to explain, and leaves it at that." Professor Richard Dawkins
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    (Original post by Steve Butters)
    Actually DRS, i said that it is silly to "disregard and ignore scientific evidence and simply say "God did it"". If you followed my later comments you'd have realised that i likened it to believing that giant invisible eagles are responsible for the motion of motorcars. One cannot prove that such eagles DONT exist, but it IS silly to believe cars move due to their influence, particularly when we have evidence to show how cars really work. We have evidence to show how the universe really works, and sadly it doesnt include some creator God who writes bibles, who answers prayers, who cures cancer patients, who impregnates virgins, who forgives sins and who sends down his son to die for us. When you can supply a shred of evidence to show how such a God exists in reality, as opposed to a figment of the imagination, then i'll give your belief some consideration. Until then i'll stick with what i said earlier.
    Be careful with what you say, not all people that believe in god automatically dismiss science. The reason people fail to believe science and so called 'evidence' that proves something as a fact, is as I have said in earlier posts, all scientists are just human. We have been here (if such a thing called time exists) for an extremely short period of time - how can we automatically, in no time at all keep coming up with these theories or so called 'scientific fact'. Also I understand what you mean by your example, I am a pilot and when studying the how aircraft can fly, we can't really prove any of it other than aircraft are able to fly.
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    (Original post by DRS)
    Be careful with what you say, not all people that believe in god automatically dismiss science. The reason people fail to believe science and so called 'evidence' that proves something as a fact, is as I have said in earlier posts, all scientists are just human. We have been here (if such a thing called time exists) for an extremely short period of time - how can we automatically, in no time at all keep coming up with these theories or so called 'scientific fact'. Also I understand what you mean by your example, I am a pilot and when studying the how aircraft can fly, we can't really prove any of it other than aircraft are able to fly.
    DRS, I haven't claimed that all people who believe in God will automatically dismiss science. So im intrigued as to why you would begin with such a comment. I know of quite a few scientists who adhere to certain religious beliefs. But, if we're being honest, they do so because of tradition and certainly not because of evidence. The belief in God can certainly be therapeutic, offering emotional aid and comfort to mankind. It’s not always harmful to believe in the supernatural or, indeed, in anything false. One can make a case for believing falsehoods if they are comforting, if they’re consoling. The appeal to faith may offer the required support to many. Though we define faith as a firm belief in something for which there is no evidence. When there is evidence, no one speaks of faith. We do not speak of faith that two and two are four or that the earth is round. We only speak of faith when we wish to substitute emotion for evidence.

    “Faith is the great cop-out, the great excuse to evade the need to think and evaluate evidence. Faith is belief in spite of, even perhaps because of, the lack of evidence." Professor Richard Dawkins
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    There is a thought experiment (not that I believe it) that is called God's Debris. A God that is omnipotent and immortal, has nothing to challenge him. This means that the greatest challenge for him, would be to destroy himself. Now on an infinite time scale...he might have done this. This was the big bang, he destroyed himself and the universe and everything in it is a result of this. An interesting thought though I don't think I believe it.
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    (Original post by 00leam2)
    i know the big bang happened?
    but if ppl believe in evolution what was there b4 the big bang
    how did the universe *** to existence
    Well, a previous universe must have stopped expanding and contracted down to the one point, which was infinitely dense, before exploding again.
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    (Original post by trinigyal)
    I think God caused the big bang which caused everything else later on. Full stop!
    Well, if god created the big bang, why would he have done. Him being all powerful, why leave everything to chance and randomness. Anyway if god created the universe, it would have been created completed, like it said in genesis.

    (Original post by wiwarin_mir)
    Well, if god created the big bang, why would he have done. Him being all powerful, why leave everything to chance and randomness. Anyway if god created the universe, it would have been created completed, like it said in genesis.
    Explain what you mean by leaving everything to chance and randomness.. not sure i get ya there. In any case, whatever we sometimes assume to be things that happen by chance or randomness may not necessarily be so. Some people believe nothing happens by 'accident' or by coincidence, and i am admittedly one of them. When you say that if God created the universe it would have been created completed... you seem to be assuming that God exists within the same confines of time and space as we are - thus 65 billion years to us is 65 billion years to God, which isn't necessarily the case. So if we say the universe was not created complete from the beginning but instead started out with just a few tiny particles and eventually the galaxies, our solar system and the earth were formed over millions of years, who's to say those millions of years isn't like a split second to God?

    (Original post by Zapsta)
    The irony is that you seem to be contradicting YOURself. Quantum fluctuation can't just happen. However God can just be there. What if quantum fluctuation was God? Then it could just happen. Except it wouldn't be God as you perceive God to be, thus there would be no cause to quantum fluctuation and yet there would be no God.

    Also if we're willing to except that things are infinitely dense, etc, would it be such a big leap to suggest that we could have infinite series of events? So quantum fluctuation would not be a form of God in this situation as it would have a cause. However that cause would also have a cause, and so on. Thus there would never be a God.
    I don't think i've been contradicting myself. WHY can't God just be there? God isn't some material thing that can be explained by scientific theories (like particles in quantum fluctuation) so there is no comparing the two in my opinion.

    (Original post by trinigyal)
    Explain what you mean by leaving everything to chance and randomness
    it's called quantum physics.
 
 
 
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