TSR Pro-Test Society Watch

Jamie
Badges: 18
#1
Report Thread starter 12 years ago
#1
I hereby found the TSR Pro-Test society in support of our fine men and women in white who toil thanklessly to help produce vaccines, cures and medication for the rest of us.
Anyone want to join?
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chocolatecheese
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#2
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#2
Sign me up
Nice to see all the support the march in Oxford got yesturday.
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Fluent in Lies
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#3
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#3
Protest society?
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pendragon
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#4
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#4
(Original post by Mr.Chavez)
I hereby found the TSR Pro-Test society in support of our fine men and women in white who toil thanklessly to help produce vaccines, cures and medication for the rest of us.
Anyone want to join?
The campaigners are just small minded idiots. It is obvious that there will be animal testing as it is percieved, rightly or wrongly, to help cure diseases. I do not wish to get into this debate, I think it does benefit medical science, but let us act under the presumption that the anti-animal testing people are right and that it does not. So if they achieve their objective and get animal testing banned in UK, or even in the EU, and the US, what would the result be? Less inhumane animal testing?

No. There is demand for medicine, cures and treatments, so it would continue outside of the western world. The animal testing would simply be outsourced to China and India, let us forget the economic impact of that outcome for it will doubtless not concern the anti-animal testing activists. The outcome would be that testing abroad in places like China would increase. Do we have any power to influence how humanely test animals are treated in China? No, we lack much ability to affect how they treat their own human citizens, let alone animals. So what would the anti-animal testing groups accomplish if they were successful in getting it banned in the UK and rest of the EU? They would give up limited humane testing done under strict regulations and supervision subject to the enlightened laws of the UK and the EU, and exchange it for testing on a larger number of animals in China with no safeguards, supervison or care for the humane treatment of animals. If they went to go and protest against animal testing in China they would be shot or arrested and imprisoned.

But such people think in such limited terms that they could not understand this obvious fact, because their heads are so small, and their horizons so narrow. This is why they do not understand that in a society in which we eat animals, limited humane testing on a small number of animals, is preferable to the painful deaths of thousands if not millions of humans today and in the future. Animal testing for medical purposes is a necessary evil, even for those of us who love animals as I do, and believe that how a society treats the helpless is a reflection of its moral standing in the universe.
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Johnny 5
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#5
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#5
I'm in.
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ChanandlerBong
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#6
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#6
Only if it exclusively supports testing for medical purposes, not cosmetic ones.
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hiky
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#7
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#7
(Original post by Gamma)
Only if it exclusively supports testing for medical purposes, not cosmetic ones.
:ditto:
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Fluent in Lies
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#8
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#8
What are we protesting about? I still can't believe oxgoss has a whole animal rights sub-forum.
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Johnny 5
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#9
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#9
Yeah, Pro-Test is medical research only.
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Stick Man
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#10
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#10
(Original post by 2 + 2 = 5)
I'm in.
That has to be the first truly serious post I've seen from 2+2.

I've only been here about six months, but has he done this before?
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brimstone
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#11
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#11
(Original post by Mr.Chavez)
I hereby found the TSR Pro-Test society in support of our fine men and women in white who toil thanklessly to help produce vaccines, cures and medication for the rest of us.
Anyone want to join?
Maybe those who support animal testing can go and submit their bodies for medical testing instead.
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pendragon
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#12
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#12
(Original post by brimstone1)
Maybe those who support animal testing can go and submit their bodies for medical testing instead.
I see you are in the camp of lets get rid of humane supervised testing in the UK, in favour of inhumane testing over which we have no control in China.^o)
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Elles
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#13
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#13
would make more sense that those who object to the lawful use of animal in medical research offer themselves as replacements instead?

they'd certainly make better models if enough numbers volunteered --> researchers happier, medical progress secured for the demanding masses, animals no longer necessary hence free to enter the food chain that would be being released into the wild, animal rights people feeling useful & virtuous = everyone happy?
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Jamie
Badges: 18
#14
Report Thread starter 12 years ago
#14
(Original post by Elles)
would make more sense that those who object to the lawful use of animal in medical research offer themselves as replacements instead?

they'd certainly make better models if enough numbers volunteered --> researchers happier, medical progress secured for the demanding masses, animals no longer necessary hence free to enter the food chain that would be being released into the wild, animal rights people feeling useful & virtuous = everyone happy?
thats probably what he meant...

i think this new group is such a good idea, even if the 'founder' sounds a bit of a tool. its just nice to have a counter against the nutters just so that people don't forget that the majority actively support animal testing.
as for the cosmetics question, of course that isn't supported - i doubt any cosmetic companies even do it anymore.
i do support non-medical testing though. some people don't realise it, but now adays all new chemical products have to undergo testing to ensure they aren't harmful. paints, dyes, plastics etc all have to be tested. that way we won't get harmful effects like we used to from lead posioning (lead based paints, especially on cots and things that got chewed)
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Anne Auraque
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#15
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#15
I'm in. I hate those lefty liberal tree-huggers. All hypocrites.
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pendragon
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#16
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#16
(Original post by Anne Auraque)
I'm in. I hate those lefty liberal tree-huggers. All hypocrites.
Hey! lefty liberal tree-huggers can be for animal testing! Like me...
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chocolatecheese
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#17
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#17
(Original post by pendragon)
The campaigners are just small minded idiots. It is obvious that there will be animal testing as it is percieved, rightly or wrongly, to help cure diseases. I do not wish to get into this debate, I think it does benefit medical science, but let us act under the presumption that the anti-animal testing people are right and that it does not. So if they achieve their objective and get animal testing banned in UK, or even in the EU, and the US, what would the result be? Less inhumane animal testing?

No. There is demand for medicine, cures and treatments, so it would continue outside of the western world. The animal testing would simply be outsourced to China and India, let us forget the economic impact of that outcome for it will doubtless not concern the anti-animal testing activists. The outcome would be that testing abroad in places like China would increase. Do we have any power to influence how humanely test animals are treated in China? No, we lack much ability to affect how they treat their own human citizens, let alone animals. So what would the anti-animal testing groups accomplish if they were successful in getting it banned in the UK and rest of the EU? They would give up limited humane testing done under strict regulations and supervision subject to the enlightened laws of the UK and the EU, and exchange it for testing on a larger number of animals in China with no safeguards, supervison or care for the humane treatment of animals. If they went to go and protest against animal testing in China they would be shot or arrested and imprisoned.

But such people think in such limited terms that they could not understand this obvious fact, because their heads are so small, and their horizons so narrow. This is why they do not understand that in a society in which we eat animals, limited humane testing on a small number of animals, is preferable to the painful deaths of thousands if not millions of humans today and in the future. Animal testing for medical purposes is a necessary evil, even for those of us who love animals as I do, and believe that how a society treats the helpless is a reflection of its moral standing in the universe.
I totally agree with what you have said ...why can't these animal rights protesters see it this way:confused: We all love animals (ok...maybe there are some people out there who dont) but like you said it is a necessary evil, and the most important thing to remember is that testing IS needed, and if it isn't allowed to be carried out lawfully in countries such as the UK ...then it will only carry on in other countries in a much more inhumane way.

does anyone else feel that the animal rights protestors aren't doing their cause any good, especially in trying to get public support...i mean, they are going on about the treatment of animals, yet they feel the need to drag their dogs along with them on these protests, getting them to stand with them in the rain all day! and what about campaigning for the treatment of humans? have you heard about some of the things they've been doing to oxford students ?:mad:
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chocolatecheese
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#18
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#18
(Original post by Elles)
would make more sense that those who object to the lawful use of animal in medical research offer themselves as replacements instead?

they'd certainly make better models if enough numbers volunteered --> researchers happier, medical progress secured for the demanding masses, animals no longer necessary hence free to enter the food chain that would be being released into the wild, animal rights people feeling useful & virtuous = everyone happy?
Good idea!!! seems fine to me!
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pendragon
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#19
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#19
(Original post by chocolatecheese)
does anyone else feel that the animal rights protestors aren't doing their cause any good, especially in trying to get public support...i mean, they are going on about the treatment of animals, yet they feel the need to drag their dogs along with them on these protests, getting them to stand with them in the rain all day! and what about campaigning for the treatment of humans? have you heard about some of the things they've been doing to oxford students ?:mad:
I havent been in Oxford since I finished in the summer. Tell me what they have been doing?

I am the kind of person who was very concerned about animal rights as a child, and I still am though in a different way than they would recognise, I see things in a wider more enviromentally driven perspective.
But seeing the truely terrible behaviour of anti-animal testing protest groups while I was in the UK has profoundly alienated me from having any sympathy with them. I had been able to concede that I understood and even sympathised to some extent with their moral arguments in the past, but now they present no arguments, they only act as violent criminals, and the moderates among them (if there really are any) are just as complicit in the crimes of the radicals for they do nothing to stop them or even condemn them.
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chocolatecheese
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#20
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#20
(Original post by pendragon)
I havent been in Oxford since I finished in the summer. Tell me what they have been doing?

I am the kind of person who was very concerned about animal rights as a child, and I still am though in a different way than they would recognise, I see things in a wider more enviromentally driven perspective.
But seeing the truely terrible behaviour of anti-animal testing protest groups while I was in the UK has profoundly alienated me from having any sympathy with them. I had been able to concede that I understood and even sympathised to some extent with their moral arguments in the past, but now they present no arguments, they only act as violent criminals, and the moderates among them (if there really are any) are just as complicit in the crimes of the radicals for they do nothing to stop them or even condemn them.
Exactly!
i think most people would (or use to) sympathise with their cause...but now after the way they have been conducting themselves, they have lost all potential support...like you said, they are violent criminals. Its their violence and pathetic actions that get them in the news, rather than what they are protesting for.

As for those in Oxford, they announced that all students, tutors and employers, and firms funding Oxford uni were targets. People have received death threats, people have be beaten up, knocked off their bike, receive abuse as they go to lectures, the builders working on the new test centre have to wear balaclavas and have to be police escorted on and off the site. the activists keep releasing statements to the press saying that "Oxford better watch its back" and warning the actions "wont be pretty"....this is what one of them said....

"A heavily alarmed main office didn't deter us from spray-painting large messages on the garage doors and walls, as well as puncturing all the tyres on a Mercedes car, covering the bodywork in paint, gluing the locks and painting slogans over the windows. This is just the beginning of our campaign of devastation against ANYONE linked in ANY way to Oxford University. Every individual and business that works for the university as a whole is now a major target of the ALF. The University have made a crass decision to take us on and we will never let them win!"

The threat to the companies warned that those firms who carried on funding the university after a week could expect "full attention" from the ALF. They would have their "offices trashed and the homes of their directors and or trustees attacked". Another post said: "DO WHATEVER IT TAKES and blow these f#*#*#g monsters off the face of the planet. We must target professors, teachers, heads, students, investors, partners, supporters and ANYONE that dares to deal in any part of the university...anything goes."
i could go one...but i think you get the point :rolleyes:
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