Nights out clubblin Watch

Apricot Fairy
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#21
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#21
Drugs are dangerous. You have no idea where they've been or what they're cut with. You also have no idea what possible long term effects they could have, since "research" doesn't go back far enough.

It's also stupid to spend money on something you don't need, but which could **** your life and future up if you were caught. Drugs are for idiots. End of.
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NeverMindThat
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#22
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#22
(Original post by Apricot Fairy)
Drugs are dangerous. You have no idea where they've been or what they're cut with. You also have no idea what possible long term effects they could have, since "research" doesn't go back far enough.

It's also stupid to spend money on something you don't need, but which could **** your life and future up if you were caught. Drugs are for idiots. End of.
Im assuming you dont drink, smoke, drink coffee or tea or eat chocolate, as the only thing seperating these things from ecstasy is legality.

You dont NEED to go to university, you dont NEED to go clubbing. Friends arn't neccessary, nor are holidays. That doesn't mean anything.

The studies actually cover 25 years in humans, and the equivilent of a lifetime through corrolary in animals. The long term effects are well documented. At worst, a heavy user (defined as someone taking over 100 pills in a lifetime at an average incidence of 1 a week) appears to have approximately 15% less serotonin receptors, however the only study that even showed this used only 14 test subjects.

In terms of "getting caught"; do you go to university? How on earth would anyone catch you? Do you honestly think many universitys would do more than a slap on the wrist regarding possession of a single pill? Certainly you wont be arrested for it.
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Profesh
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#23
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'Proportionality' is, I think, the operative term here; where drugs are concerned, it's also a subjective one.
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NeverMindThat
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#24
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#24
(Original post by Profesh)
'Proportionality' is, I think, the operative term here; where drugs are concerned, it's also a subjective one.

Without doubt. They arn't for everyone, but then, nor is clubbing itself.

To dimiss all drug users as idiots is foolishly naive and indicative of ignorance, particularly when the facts are not on your side.
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Apricot Fairy
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#25
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#25
(Original post by NeverMindThat)
Im assuming you dont drink, smoke, drink coffee or tea or eat chocolate, as the only thing seperating these things from ecstasy is legality.

You dont NEED to go to university, you dont NEED to go clubbing. Friends arn't neccessary, nor are holidays. That doesn't mean anything.

The studies actually cover 25 years in humans, and the equivilent of a lifetime through corrolary in animals. The long term effects are well documented. At worst, a heavy user (defined as someone taking over 100 pills in a lifetime at an average incidence of 1 a week) appears to have approximately 15% less serotonin receptors, however the only study that even showed this used only 14 test subjects.

In terms of "getting caught"; do you go to university? How on earth would anyone catch you? Do you honestly think many universitys would do more than a slap on the wrist regarding possession of a single pill? Certainly you wont be arrested for it.
*shrugs*

Legality is actually fairly key, but hey. Oh well, not my problem. Do what you like. Doesn't make you intelligent.
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NeverMindThat
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#26
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#26
(Original post by Apricot Fairy)
*shrugs*

Legality is actually fairly key, but hey. Oh well, not my problem. Do what you like. Doesn't make you intelligent.
What does legality show? Nothing. Alcohol is legal and causes a HUGE amount more problems than most illegal drugs. Nicotine similarly.

The risks of taking ecstasy are comparable with a short car ride (as a passanger) while reading a book (both short and long term).
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Apricot Fairy
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#27
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#27
(Original post by NeverMindThat)
What does legality show? Nothing. Alcohol is legal and causes a HUGE amount more problems than most illegal drugs. Nicotine similarly.

The risks of taking ecstasy are comparable with a short car ride (as a passanger) while reading a book (both short and long term).
Glad to see you've learned to spell it now.

I'm sorry, but as I said before, I cannot trust the advice of someone who claims to have thoroughly checked his facts and read extensive research into the short and long term health risks, but can't actually spell it. Sorry.
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NeverMindThat
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#28
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(Original post by Apricot Fairy)
Glad to see you've learned to spell it now.

I'm sorry, but as I said before, I cannot trust the advice of someone who claims to have thoroughly checked his facts and read extensive research into the short and long term health risks, but can't actually spell it. Sorry.
Google Extacy. I could have spelt it XTC and still been right. The "proper" name is MDMA in pill form. Ecstasy, XTC, Extacy Ecstacy or whatever are streetnames, none is any more correct than any other.

In conclusion; A recent study of clubgoers in Luton showed that users of ecstasy consumed 80% less alcohol than their non-using counterparts on the average night out. This amounted to some 8 units less on average. The long term health risks of 8 units of alcohol (Extra) a week are hugely in excess of those provided by ecstasy. I have no doubt that in 20 years time it will be legal along with select other drugs like Psilo Cubensis mushrooms.

Call me an "idiot" all you want, it just makes you look foolish.
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Apricot Fairy
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#29
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#29
(Original post by NeverMindThat)
Google Extacy. I could have spelt it XTC and still been right. The "proper" name is MDMA in pill form. Ecstasy, XTC, Extacy Ecstacy or whatever are streetnames, none is any more correct than any other.
That's because most of the people who write it are retarded, hence the wildly differing variations in spelling.

Google greengrocers' apostrophe.
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Inclination
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#30
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#30
(Original post by NeverMindThat)
What does legality show? Nothing. Alcohol is legal and causes a HUGE amount more problems than most illegal drugs. Nicotine similarly.

The risks of taking ecstasy are comparable with a short car ride (as a passanger) while reading a book (both short and long term).
I'll have to agree with parts of this. I did research for my biology course regarding the legalization of marijuana, and yes it is safer than alcohol and tobacco. It is also less addicting. It does cause brain damage, but only in frequent, long-term use.

However, ecstasy is dangerous, and should not be used. Particularly since much ecstasy has added, special "toxins" including rat poison, etc. for special effects.

Legality by itself means nothing though.
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Profesh
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#31
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#31
(Original post by NeverMindThat)
Without doubt. They arn't for everyone, but then, nor is clubbing itself.

To dimiss all drug users as idiots is foolishly naive and indicative of ignorance, particularly when the facts are not on your side.
That said, considerations of 'legality' also pervade the regulatory dimension: it is not 'risk' per se, but rather the notion of it as opposed to reward, which predicates my decision not to imbibe any one of countless illicit substances; which is to say, the 'risk' component may be inherently adverse to calculation. Of course, cannabis consumption is usually sufficiently innocuous; the very notion of death as being consequent of smoking it, so ludicrous, that such an eventuality would besmirch the reputation of the vendor. However, the putative 'innate' lethality of 'hard' drugs is widely held to be so indubitable that their purveyors may reasonably anticipate benefit-of-doubt with regard to death ensuing from shoddy merchandise: nothing concrete can be attributed before the fact, if at all. Volenti non fit injuria, as they say in law.

Personally, I'm for the legalisation of all drugs; if nothing else, then to ensure their effective 'policing', ironic though that may sound.
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NeverMindThat
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#32
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#32
(Original post by Inclination)
I'll have to agree with parts of this. I did research for my biology course regarding the legalization of marijuana, and yes it is safer than alcohol and tobacco. It is also less addicting. It does cause brain damage, but only in frequent, long-term use.

However, ecstasy is dangerous, and should not be used. Particularly since much ecstasy has added, special "toxins" including rat poison, etc. for special effects.

Legality by itself means nothing though.
Or... use a testing kit. They cost < £20 and last for 150+ uses (much much much more than Ill ever need. And buy from people you know. By the way, the rat poison thing is a myth. There has never been a case of rat poison being detected in an ecstasy pill (and there would be no point making a pill with rat poison in it).

One final benefit, an E costs £5, a night out drinking (at least at anywhere resembling a good club) will cost upwards of £30.

Im not advocating regular E use, if nothing else you wont enjoy it as much if each time isn't "special", but it IS an incredible night out on special occasions.
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Profesh
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#33
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#33
(Original post by NeverMindThat)
Or... use a testing kit. They cost < £20 and last for 150+ uses (much much much more than Ill ever need. And buy from people you know. By the way, the rat poison thing is a myth. There has never been a case of rat poison being detected in an ecstasy pill (and there would be no point making a pill with rat poison in it).

One final benefit, an E costs £5, a night out drinking (at least at anywhere resembling a good club) will cost upwards of £30.

Im not advocating regular E use, if nothing else you wont enjoy it as much if each time isn't "special", but it IS an incredible night out on special occasions.
Fair rebuttal: caveat emptor, and so forth.
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NeverMindThat
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#34
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(Original post by Profesh)
Fair rebuttal: caveat emptor, and so forth.
Since noone sensible buys from someone on the street (or even worse In the club!), there is always an opportunity to test before you buy (testing takes a tiny sliver). If the dealer refuses to allow this, then I don't buy. If he allows it and the test shows anything other than MDMA, I don't buy. Caveat Emptor indeed, but easily doable.
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Inclination
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#35
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#35
(Original post by NeverMindThat)
Or... use a testing kit. They cost < £20 and last for 150+ uses (much much much more than Ill ever need. And buy from people you know. By the way, the rat poison thing is a myth. There has never been a case of rat poison being detected in an ecstasy pill (and there would be no point making a pill with rat poison in it).

One final benefit, an E costs £5, a night out drinking (at least at anywhere resembling a good club) will cost upwards of £30.

Im not advocating regular E use, if nothing else you wont enjoy it as much if each time isn't "special", but it IS an incredible night out on special occasions.
Of course; testing kits. Why didn't I think of that! (Just like how Europe is providing clean needles for heroin users...how thoughtful, huh.) Of course permanent brain damage is desirable. Even without the added toxins, E by itself is very harmful. Not to mention the side effects of sleepless nights followed by "coma sleeps"...

And no offense, but if you find *****ing your body up as "fun" you haven't done anything "crazy" yet. (Hence, parachuting, gliding, etc.) I just find it somewhat sad that people have to ***** themselves up in order to find fun at parties. Give me a break.
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El Scotto
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#36
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#36
(Original post by NeverMindThat)
. At worst, a heavy user (defined as someone taking over 100 pills in a lifetime at an average incidence of 1 a week) appears to have approximately 15% less serotonin receptors, however the only study that even showed this used only 14 test subjects.

what you negate to mention is the numbers of people who end up mentally ill due to taking too much ecstasy, a result of messing with those very same serotonin receptors, and when you get older you'll see the result of this around you amongst your friends. Then you'll start to get a lil wiser.
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NeverMindThat
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#37
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#37
(Original post by Inclination)
Of course; testing kits. Why didn't I think of that! (Just like how Europe is providing clean needles for heroin users...how thoughtful, huh.) Of course permanent brain damage is desirable. Even without the added toxins, E by itself is very harmful. Not to mention the side effects of sleepless nights followed by "coma sleeps"...

And no offense, but if you find *****ing your body up as "fun" you haven't done anything "crazy" yet. (Hence, parachuting, gliding, etc.) I just find it somewhat sad that people have to ***** themselves up in order to find fun at parties. Give me a break.
Actually (and minimizing information here to preserve anonymity) I am an organiser of a society which does all of those kinds of things. I am an instructor at one (again not saying which because it betrays my ID), and reasonably high level at the other. Its an entirely different experience, and I've tried it as I am open minded, ie for the same reasons I have tried bungee jumping. They all have a risk attached to them (although E is actually lower than say parachuting), but its worth it for the experience.

I am not "***ing" up my body in any way. Extremely occasional use has no side effects.


what you negate to mention is the numbers of people who end up mentally ill due to taking too much ecstasy, a result of messing with those very same serotonin receptors, and when you get older you'll see the result of this around you amongst your friends. Then you'll start to get a lil wiser.
There have been no studies which even remotely indicate that E can increase the chances of a mental illness. None even suggest it.
What the studies do seem to show is that prolonged heavy use (100+ pills, 2+ pills a week), can lead to weakened short term memory and lower seretonin levels (although bizarely not neccessarily more depression). These effects disappear after several years abstinance.

Since I never plan to take E more than a few times a year, this simply doesnt apply.
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lovelee-jublee
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#38
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#38
(Original post by NeverMindThat)
Since noone sensible buys from someone on the street (or even worse In the club!), there is always an opportunity to test before you buy (testing takes a tiny sliver). If the dealer refuses to allow this, then I don't buy. If he allows it and the test shows anything other than MDMA, I don't buy. Caveat Emptor indeed, but easily doable.
I'm sorry, but in my opinion, no-one sensible even tries illegal substances, let alone buy them.
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SuperhansFavouriteAlsatian
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#39
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I gotta say, NeverMindThat seems to be destroying everyone here. As people against it's use, the onus is on those opposing NeverMindThat to provide evidence (actual evidence, not newspaper articles) of it's brain-destroying tendencies, which has been lacking so far. He has continued this debate in a formal and well versed fashion, something that cannot be said for everyone against him, so, from a person who entered this debate with an open and neutral mindset, NMT is kicking arse here.
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NeverMindThat
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#40
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#40
(Original post by lil_lee)
I'm sorry, but in my opinion, no-one sensible even tries illegal substances, let alone buy them.
You are entitled to your opinion, but in mine, you can substitute "sensible" for "closeminded". I can respect a person not wanting to try drugs themselves, however I cant accept people telling me or others that they are in some way stupid or taking huge risks by doing what we do. Its simply not true. Driving to work is a greater risk.

If anyone is interested in contesting anything I have said seriously, I am more than happy to start citing specific studies, but at this point its all a little dry.

Its even easier to defend drugs like Magic Mushrooms (which are actually more potent and mind altering). E, it has to be said, has the potential for abuse.
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