Is England a country? Watch

Bismarck
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#81
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#81
(Original post by Oyinkan)
Quite frankly this is such an unimportant discussion that I'd be suprised if "Bismark" got worked up because I believe England to be a country.

Scotland is a country in the same way I believe that Nigeria was a country even before independence same for Wales. So i think of htem as seperate countries them in my opinion England is too. My opinion, may not be the legal definition, but honestly I don't really care.
I strongly suggest you study something other than law. Nigeria has a head of state and head of government. Who are the head of state and the head of government of England?
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ArthurOliver
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#82
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#82
(Original post by Bismarck)
I strongly suggest you study something other than law. Nigeria has a head of state and head of government. Who are the head of state and the head of government of England?
It's you Biz that's sticking to a too closely defined meaning for "country". 9 times out of 10 the uses you are applying would find the legal eagles using "state" rather than country. Likewise 9 times out of 10 when people say that England or Scotland is a country they aren't talking about the kind of political-legal entity that you are. You're out of synch with both with your nerdishness.
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Oyinkan
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#83
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#83
(Original post by Bismarck)
I strongly suggest you study something other than law. Nigeria has a head of state and head of government. Who are the head of state and the head of government of England?
Look Bismark there is no need to get personal. Big deal, I think England is a country, and I'm going to be a great lawyer regardless.

Head of State: the Queen
Head of Government: Tony Blair

Pre-independence the Nigerian head of government was not officially recognised so it was effectively whoever the British government had in power. Nigera wasn't technically a 'country' because in order to be a 'country' no other national government should have official power over you. However as far as I and any other Nigerian is concerned Nigeria is and always has been a country (in fact some may say it's three but we won't get into that)

Therefore on the same note I also believe that Scotland and Wales are countries as is England.

This is my opinion, yes it's different to yours, accept it and move on!
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Bismarck
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#84
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#84
(Original post by Oyinkan)
Look Bismark there is no need to get personal. Big deal, I think England is a country, and I'm going to be a great lawyer regardless.

Head of State: the Queen
Head of Government: Tony Blair
No, they're the head of state and the head of government of the United Kingdom.

Pre-independence the Nigerian head of government was not officially recognised so it was effectively whoever the British government had in power. Nigera wasn't technically a 'country' because in order to be a 'country' no other national government should have official power over you. However as far as I and any other Nigerian is concerned Nigeria is and always has been a country (in fact some may say it's three but we won't get into that)
You're using "country" synonymously with "nation", and I already pointed out numerous times that this is wrong.

This is my opinion, yes it's different to yours, accept it and move on!
My opinion is supported by the facts and is correct, yours is based on ignorance and is wrong. Not all opinions are equally valid; anyone studying law should know that...

(Original post by ArthurOliver)
It's you Biz that's sticking to a too closely defined meaning for "country". 9 times out of 10 the uses you are applying would find the legal eagles using "state" rather than country. Likewise 9 times out of 10 when people say that England or Scotland is a country they aren't talking about the kind of political-legal entity that you are. You're out of synch with both with your nerdishness.
And yet when asked how many countries there are in the world or how many countries have seats at the UN, the answer is always 191, and not thousands (which would be the answer if we were using the term synonymously with nation).
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Oyinkan
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#85
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#85
She's also the head of state of Canada. SO what now Canada isn't a country either?

As i said before my opinion ISN'T based on fact, morally i think that Scotland, England and Wales should be regarded as countries, the same way that Nigeria should have been. The only reason why they aren't legally is because of Enlgish imperialism. I don't care about the legal definition this is purely my own opinion. I'm off, because I'm bored of this convo but do go on and develop a hernia about this. However stop and think "what IS the point of my life if this topic gets me so worked up." You're obviously intelligent Bismark, put it to good use

PEACE xXx
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Ferrus
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#86
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#86
A country is a specific portion of territory or land. Thus in the past colonies which though nominally ruled from Europe were called their own country. A nation is a group of people sharing ethnic and cultural ties. Both can become contestable terms.

England is undoubtably a nation, the English are a nationality. The United Kingdom is the nation-state, that is the UK is an invented nation of 4 nations, "Britain", ruled by one state.

Whether England is a country is harder to say. Country as a term has merged into meaning much the same as nation-state, and even by the "old" definition, the landmass of the main British Isle could be given the appeallation of "country". Then again England does have it's specific history and in some sense geography, giving credence to the notion that it is indeed a seperate country.
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L i b
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#87
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#87
(Original post by Oyinkan)
Pre-independence the Nigerian head of government was not officially recognised so it was effectively whoever the British government had in power. Nigera wasn't technically a 'country' because in order to be a 'country' no other national government should have official power over you. However as far as I and any other Nigerian is concerned Nigeria is and always has been a country (in fact some may say it's three but we won't get into that)
That's very different. Scotland, England, Wales and NI are part of the United Kingdom. Nigeria was never part of the United Kingdom. It was never inside any country other than Nigeria.

For someone who's so sure of himself, you really don't seem to know a lot.

(Original post by Oyinkan)
She's also the head of state of Canada. SO what now Canada isn't a country either?
The position of Queen of the UK and Queen of Canada are two separate offices. The fact that they are held by the same individual is of no consequence.

As i said before my opinion ISN'T based on fact, morally i think that Scotland, England and Wales should be regarded as countries, the same way that Nigeria should have been. The only reason why they aren't legally is because of Enlgish imperialism.
Again, sheer ignorance. Scotland and England became one country as a result of the parliaments of both voting for it. Not only that, but it was the English Commissioners that had to be sacked by Queen Anne for being hostile to Union. Notably also, England adopted the Scottish monarchy, not the other way around. If there's any imperialism going on here, it's Scottish. But then again, that's a completely ridiculous notion.

Anyway, just because you want to be a billionaire doesn't mean you go around calling yourself one...
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SamTheMan
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#88
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#88
(Original post by Ferrus)
A country is a specific portion of territory or land. Thus in the past colonies which though nominally ruled from Europe were called their own country. A nation is a group of people sharing ethnic and cultural ties. Both can become contestable terms.

England is undoubtably a nation, the English are a nationality. The United Kingdom is the nation-state, that is the UK is an invented nation of 4 nations, "Britain", ruled by one state.

Whether England is a country is harder to say. Country as a term has merged into meaning much the same as nation-state, and even by the "old" definition, the landmass of the main British Isle could be given the appeallation of "country". Then again England does have it's specific history and in some sense geography, giving credence to the notion that it is indeed a seperate country.
I agree with this but then the idea that the UK is so special in having a nation of nations is only an illusion that the British create for themselves. I think that if someone were to look at every state in Europe, they would see that pretty much every country was built in the same way.

For some reason, the UK never went along the path of integration and uniformisation of its population like Spain, Germany or France did. This can also be seen in the way it colonised countries: unlike France, the UK didn't impose its language and attempt to integrate territories into the UK as much as other countries did.

Germany for example is just the grouping of rather distinct "Germanic" nations but a strong German identity has been built in the past 150 years. In the same way, France annexed Brittany in the 16th century, yet unlike Wales which was associated with England since the 14th century, there is no longer any sense that Brittany is a nation or at least a nation distinct from the rest of France.

Not all countries went down the same road. Switzerland and Belgium are in the same way, nations formed out of several nations which are a lot more distinct than the British nations are.
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