Was the gas chamber humane and did the Nazi's intend it to be so?
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I swear the chambers were first tested on the Soviets
The gas chambers weren't the only way of killing people. As the person said above, in Operation Barbarossa they made people suffer ridiculous amounts, lining people up and shooting them into massive grave pits and doing it over and over again so that people who weren't dead from being shot were landing on top of others who also hadn't been killed from the shot and they ended up slowly bleeding and suffocating to death. Also, one girl survived the gas chambers and was found alive when taking valuables from the dead bodies. They talked to her and everything. They had to get one of the leading officers at that camp to shoot her.
It took some of the human element out of it, shooting someone dead is a personal act, if you shoot someone, you and you alone are responsible, you pull the trigger and end the life. The gas chambers shared the responsibility and to some extent eased the burden of guilt (for those that even felt it, remember the Nazi's had gone through thorough brainwashing to the point many didn't see the Jews as humans, it was akin to slaughtering farm animals for some.
They made the massacre an industrial action, in the Nazi's eyes they turned it from killing to purging, it stopped the killing being an individual event, instead of taking a life you are taking a group, removing it, just as people talk about how killing with bombs and push button weapons makes killing easier in the modern day than pointing a rifle at someone.
They made the massacre an industrial action, in the Nazi's eyes they turned it from killing to purging, it stopped the killing being an individual event, instead of taking a life you are taking a group, removing it, just as people talk about how killing with bombs and push button weapons makes killing easier in the modern day than pointing a rifle at someone.
Original post by angelbones
http://abcwwii.wordpress.com/the-letters/z-zyklon-b/
"By interfering with the creation of ATP, Zyklon B kills its victims from the inside out, all the way down to the cellular level. Its victims literally felt their bodies die, piece by piece."
I can probably find you more if you like.
"By interfering with the creation of ATP, Zyklon B kills its victims from the inside out, all the way down to the cellular level. Its victims literally felt their bodies die, piece by piece."
I can probably find you more if you like.
Something a bit more scientific, maybe a paper studying the effects of Zyklon B by a respected peer-reviewed academic?
Original post by 122025278
Did the Nazi's deliberately look for a gas that caused the least suffering as possible? A documentary I watched showed that in SS reports they found methods of execution such as shooting or explosives as too ghastly and caused them to experiment with gas, originally exhaust fumes from a car, specifically the carbon monoxide gas which has the effect of making you feel fatigued and ultimately falling unconscious and you aren't even aware of it.
My understanding, from recollection, is that the guards who were executing victims (including children) in 10s or 100s at one time by shooting or explosives were in many cases so traumatised by what had happened they were no longer able to perform their duties.
Zyklon B was introduced as it was an efficient, quick and cost effective method of killing large numbers of people very quickly. It also reduced incidences of traumatic stress amongst guards. There is also evidence to indicate that Zyklon would cause terrible agony and torture before death.
Here is just one of many articles regarding the use of Zyklon.
This is from what I remember as being contained within the SS reports.
On a separate note. It was not more humane for the victims as they were often aware before entering the chambers they were going to be murdered and this probably caused massive emotional stress and anxiety. In continental Europe the 'rumours' or knowledge of what was really happening in the camps was widespread.
(edited 12 years ago)
Original post by 122025278
Something a bit more scientific, maybe a paper studying the effects of Zyklon B by a respected peer-reviewed academic?
Facts about cyanide from the CDC
Info about Hydrogen Cyanide from the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons.
The Chemistry of Auschwitz from the Holocaust History Project.
it was meant to be humane, but for the killers not the Jews! When Germany started to invade the East there were special killing squads called Einsatzgruppen who travelled to towns, villages etc. to round up Jews, Communists (people they didn't like) and shot them. But this was having a bad effect on the men - executing innocent men, women and children with a gun is bound to do that.
So, the gas chambers were meant so that no one actually had to do the killing, and it made the killing more efficient.
The camps were just meant to be efficient killing machines. They did not care about whether or not it was humane (to Nazi ideology, the Jews were sub-human anyway)
So, the gas chambers were meant so that no one actually had to do the killing, and it made the killing more efficient.
The camps were just meant to be efficient killing machines. They did not care about whether or not it was humane (to Nazi ideology, the Jews were sub-human anyway)
i think it was more to do with cost and efficiency. the nazis did a lot more horrific things to the jews/other groups that were in concentration camps... for example the experiments they carried out on them.. even in children. i don't think their use of Zyklon B was to do with how "humane" it was because they considered the people they put in concentration camps as sub-human and worthless, not worthy of dignity, humanity, rights etc.
Relatively it was a humane method ... At least compared to other methods they used such as mass shootings, blowing them up, experimenting on them etc.
As for whether they wanted it to be humane? No it was just easier ... Several top nazis at numerburg said how one of the reasons for moving to mass gassings and killing via the ghettos was because of the inherrant unfeasability of shooting the millions of jews, gays, gypos, slavs etc.
As for whether they wanted it to be humane? No it was just easier ... Several top nazis at numerburg said how one of the reasons for moving to mass gassings and killing via the ghettos was because of the inherrant unfeasability of shooting the millions of jews, gays, gypos, slavs etc.
Of course there was the factor of bureaucratizing the entire process for the sake of making it easier for the single parts of the 'machinery', but another massive factor is the rationalisation.
Imagine.. now, this is Hitler.. you are confronted with the domination of Eastern Europe and by conquering the world, in this example the part of it which is Eastern Europe (that is: Russia), which, of course, is 'rightfully' yours (the 'Land Ober Ost'), but by doing so realise that there are SO many 'Jews' 'which' need to be exterminated. The philosophy behind this rationalisation is something called very similarly to it: 'functional rationality'. It means that you rationalise a process/an ideology/aim which is highly irrational. By which I don't mean that you make the actual process/ideology/aim rational, but that you invent a mechanism, which in itself is rational to achieve a very irrational aim.
Imagine.. now, this is Hitler.. you are confronted with the domination of Eastern Europe and by conquering the world, in this example the part of it which is Eastern Europe (that is: Russia), which, of course, is 'rightfully' yours (the 'Land Ober Ost'), but by doing so realise that there are SO many 'Jews' 'which' need to be exterminated. The philosophy behind this rationalisation is something called very similarly to it: 'functional rationality'. It means that you rationalise a process/an ideology/aim which is highly irrational. By which I don't mean that you make the actual process/ideology/aim rational, but that you invent a mechanism, which in itself is rational to achieve a very irrational aim.
Zyklon B was a pesticide used for delousing clothes. It was something lethal they already had available at concentration camps. The SS experimented with various methods and this was the easiest. Bearing in mind what physical abuse and torture they did to prisoners, humanity has no part in the decision. It was all about efficiency and reducing the number of soldiers who had to be involved, because they were often so disturbed by what they were doing. That is why firing squads stopped.
Original post by 122025278
I was always under the impression that the method the Nazi's used to kill Jews, the gas chamber, was a horrible death, the last moments likely akin to that scene from The Rock when a ball of nerve gas bursts in a guys mouth and well, death is anything but painless and quick... Then there were the stories of Jews bypassing the gas chambers and being put into ovens in the crematorium and burnt alive.
However, the gas the Nazi's actually used, Zyklon B, from what I gather, would have induced unconsciousness very quickly and then death - not a painful and long drawn out one. Indeed the discovery that Zyklon B would be lethal was an accident, it was produced as a cleaning agent and when mixed with chemicals or used in the wrong way, it could kill. Remember the gas chamber used as a method of executing criminals in developed countries specifically because it was supposedly a more humane method.
Did the Nazi's deliberately look for a gas that caused the least suffering as possible? A documentary I watched showed that in SS reports they found methods of execution such as shooting or explosives as too ghastly and caused them to experiment with gas, originally exhaust fumes from a car, specifically the carbon monoxide gas which has the effect of making you feel fatigued and ultimately falling unconscious and you aren't even aware of it.
Whatever method they used it was still murder and extremely terrifying, but did they deliberately go out of there way to look for a humane method, since there are obviously many other ways which would have caused so much more suffering than the one they chose or did it just happen that Zyklon B was quick, cheap and any relatively positive effects were simply a by-product?
However, the gas the Nazi's actually used, Zyklon B, from what I gather, would have induced unconsciousness very quickly and then death - not a painful and long drawn out one. Indeed the discovery that Zyklon B would be lethal was an accident, it was produced as a cleaning agent and when mixed with chemicals or used in the wrong way, it could kill. Remember the gas chamber used as a method of executing criminals in developed countries specifically because it was supposedly a more humane method.
Did the Nazi's deliberately look for a gas that caused the least suffering as possible? A documentary I watched showed that in SS reports they found methods of execution such as shooting or explosives as too ghastly and caused them to experiment with gas, originally exhaust fumes from a car, specifically the carbon monoxide gas which has the effect of making you feel fatigued and ultimately falling unconscious and you aren't even aware of it.
Whatever method they used it was still murder and extremely terrifying, but did they deliberately go out of there way to look for a humane method, since there are obviously many other ways which would have caused so much more suffering than the one they chose or did it just happen that Zyklon B was quick, cheap and any relatively positive effects were simply a by-product?
No, it was very inhumane and horrible. However, it was efficient and quick to wiping out the Jews. The Nazis did a LOT of stuff to Jews, such as turning them into soap. This video is pretty disturbing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHjc386CS5E
So overall, gassing was efficient and quick, but it wasn't the Nazis' only way of eliminating Jews, and therefore we can still call it inhumane. Also a quick history lesson: the use of gas was as revenge as the German armies in World War 1 suffered from the toxic gas. Also, Hitler was almost blinded once, while he was in hospital, and little after the war ended, while the army still felt unbeaten and ready to continue. This lead to the unfair and foolish peace set at Versailles, which was one of the key points Hitler made, and another reason why he hated the Jews - since he blamed them for Germany's losses, and he saw that the Jews didn't suffer after the treaty of Versailles.
Tudor executioners were made drunk before they executed the criminal. Simply because killing a human is a hard thing, something you can't get accustomed to.
Gas was an alternative, as the soldiers did not have to take any action, it was just at a press of a button.
Gas was an alternative, as the soldiers did not have to take any action, it was just at a press of a button.
It was terribly inhumane. It was revealed in the trials of the SS guards that they used low concentrations of the chemical Zyklon, where it normally would kill quickly in seconds it killed instead slowly, some suffered for 30 minutes or more and because the gas chambers were so large the concentrations even inside varied. The gas is also lighter than air so adults typically were affected earlier than shorter children who watched the suffering before theirs began. There was nothing humane about what happened and it was purposeful suffering.
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